The Magic of Magic
Aug212012
I’m still sedating myself with supernatural TV in between bouts of honest work, and I’m trying to figure out why. I’m not a fan of horror at all (not trashing it, good horror is a thing of beauty, it’s just not my thing), but Dr. Who and his monsters are still my go-to drug of choice (tried three episodes of Farscape and I’ll go back for more but really, it’s the Doctor for me). Some of it is just good storytelling (“Love and Monsters” not withstanding; Davies must have been on drugs when he wrote that awful episode) but it’s more than that. I just can’t figure out what it is.
I was thinking it might be in the truly great Monsters: the best seasons of Buffy had the best Big Bads (there will never be a villain as wonderfully awful as the Mayor again). But then I look at the Daleks, possibly the worst antagonists ever designed–for many years they couldn’t climb stairs which is a big flaw for those multi-storied interior battles–and think “maybe not.” The Cybermen, the Silence, the Slitheen . . . there’s not a supernatural Hannibal Lecter in the bunch. Okay, the Master comes close, but still, it’s not the antagonists.
Then I thought maybe it was the ‘shipper in me: the Doctor and Rose, the Doctor and Martha, the Doctor and Donna, the Doctor and Amy, those intense relationships that are rarely romantic, at least not reciprocated romantic, but are completely, intensely devoted in a simple, up front way. When the Master turns everybody in the world into a clone of himself and only Donna is left unchanged, he rages at the Doctor, “What did you do?” and the Doctor says, “Did you think I’d leave my best friend unprotected?” and it’s lovely in its simplicity and truth. They were never lovers but they loved each other and that’s incredibly powerful. (Don’t get me started on the Doctor’s farewells to his one real romantic love, Rose; those leave me weeping helplessly every time.)
But now I’m thinking it’s the heroes. Farscape’s matter-of-fact everyday astronaut hero who rolls with whatever the universe sends him, Sam and Dean fighting the unworldly and breaking for a beer when the demon battle’s won, Jack Carter of the normal IQ keeping the world safe for geniuses, the everyday guy with otherworldly powers. I think the Doctor is That Guy with 900 years of experience fighting the Big Bads of every galaxy, still with enough enthusiasm to yell, “Fantastic!” every time he sees something new.
But I’m guessing. I’ll have to watch all the Whos again to be sure, plus Farscape and Warehouse 13 (YAY a new series!) and everything else on the list (must make that list). In the meantime, I want to know why you respond to the supernatural stories (or why you don’t; that’s good, too). I know it’s a lot more complex than the stuff I’ve sketched above, and I know you have answers because The Truth is Out There. (Gotta rewatch those, too.)
What is it about this stuff that’s so powerful?
Loading ...
110 Comments to 'The Magic of Magic'
On August 21, 2012 at 11:58 pm JulieB said...
I think it’s what the Big Bads reveal to us about ourselves, and the heros that keep going when we think they can’t anymore. And, even when they can’t win, we can understand because we’ve lost too.
On August 22, 2012 at 12:16 am Thea said...
Can’t join you on this. My drug’s contempory or Regency ‘shipper fiction.
On August 22, 2012 at 12:25 am Sarah Wynde said...
The shows for me are Eureka, Firefly, Dr. Who, in that order. In every one, it’s about love that isn’t romantic. It’s about community, really — about the family that you choose, rather than the one you’re born to. Malcolm Reynolds is never going to sleep with Kaylee, but he’d die for her without question. For me, the monsters are irrelevant. In the Doctor’s Wife (imo, the single best episode of the doctor), I barely even care about the villain. The scene that gets me every time, and I’ve probably watched it at least a dozen times, is when she says “MY doctor.” She chose him. It’s not romantic or sexual, but it’s so real and so heart-wrenching and I adore it.
Eureka–which I thought you didn’t like based on your last post, but now I’m not so sure–is fantasy land for me. I dedicated my first book to the cast, creators, and crew, because it’s what inspired me to write. (I know, a little weird, but what the hell, no one was ever going to read it.) But it’s about acceptance. No matter how weird you are, how crazy, how geeky, how different, there can be a place for you in Eureka. And I think that’s a theme of a lot of sci-fi/fantasy, and I’m pretty sure that’s why I love it.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:08 am Beth Matthews said...
Oooh. Good point about community. Now I think about it all my favorites have a strong community (Farscape, Avatar, Buffy, Dr. Who), and yes it’s about how these people come together and eventually get to the point where they would die for each other. One of my favorite Dr. Who episodes is the one where every companion he’s ever had finds a way back to the Doctor, to be there, to help them, and you the audience get to see this incredible, loving group he’s built for himself.
On August 22, 2012 at 9:47 am Deborah Blake said...
I agree about the community. I’m a huge fan of Firefly and Dr. Who, but also Stargate SG1, and in every case you have a people who come together and form almost-families that pit them against everything else.
Also, I love the quirky, and the mix of intense action with humor (something Stargate excelled at). Also, yes–magic.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:02 am Lois said...
Ahhh…Farscape! I forgot about that one…that was a go to show back in the day…I think I agree with you Jenny about the every-man hero types being a big draw. I love seeing the supposed underdog win out over seemingly insurmountable odds. I also find i am drawn by the kick ass heroines as well. Love, love, love Fiona on Burn Notice, Jo in Eureka, Aeryn on Farscape, Samantha on Stargate SG1. And of course there must be the camaraderie, chemistry and humor between the characters.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:05 am Beth Matthews said...
Well, a big part of my enjoyment of Farscape is John. He’s this ridiculously competent guy on our world but in space everyone thinks he’s an idiot, yet he still manages to save the day. I also was a big John/Aeryn shipper so that was part of it. I also really loved the supporting cast and seeing all the cool aliens the Jim Henson workshop could come up with. I think one of the greatest things with SF/F is seeing what kind of incredible/absurb/beautiful/ridiculous stuff the human mind can come up with.
For Avatar (which I just started rewatching after suggesting it for your list) my sister had been telling me for months that I should watch the show but what finally got me to do it was a really horrible breakup (six year relationship going kerblooey) and I had a whole weekend of awful to get through so I self-medicated with Avatar. It was simple and good, no huge darkness, just honor and friendship and redemption. Some of the really cracklicious stuff on that show is the humor, which, yes, can devolve into little kid silliness (it was a kid show) but there’s still enough there to make me, a full grown woman, chuckle. There are also some really intricate and satisfying character arcs on that show. A kid’s show! Avatar has better character growth than a lot of adult TV out there. Especially for the series “bad guy” Prince Zuko. The world-building on this one was also just a breath of fresh air for me since it’s Asian influenced and NOT another pseudo-medieval Europeland.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:15 am Beth Matthews said...
Another thing that Avatar at least did really well was tackle big concepts in a really thoughtful way and never just fudge things over. In the last season the hero has to really grapple with the concept that he might have to kill someone. The whole universe is basically telling him he’ll have to kill someone but he keeps fighting back against that assumption to see if there isn’t some other way. I can’t think of very many adult shows that do this and on a kid’s show I thought it was fantastic to actually address that dilemma instead of, for example, using the Disney cheat of the villain falling off a large precipice into some convenient fog.
Buffy was really good about not letting the heroine off the hook. For example, the end of the second season. I’ve seen that episode a million times and I still sob like a baby every time.
I think because SF/F gets to play with big concepts/dilemmas like this the good SF/F often takes the opportunity to go deeper and not just rely on genre “cheats”. I think if anyone else had been writing Buffy but Joss the end of the second season would either have her getting good Angel back or only having to kill bad Angel, but Joss doesn’t let her off the hook like that. She’s the savior of the world so she actually has to make some truly awful choices.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:09 pm cleo said...
“I think because SF/F gets to play with big concepts/dilemmas like this the good SF/F often takes the opportunity to go deeper and not just rely on genre “cheats”.”
This.
On August 22, 2012 at 3:06 am Kira said...
Fantasy works because once you suspend your disbelief, you can also suspend your skepticism and really enjoy all the basic characteristics of a good story, without letting reality get in the way. It can be black and white if it wants to, you can have good vs evil, you can have true love, you can have change and growth, and epic battles.
On August 22, 2012 at 4:07 am Eleanor said...
It’s the relationships and the characters themselves, just like every other form of escape for me. The supernatural stuff can make it all a lot more fun–Buffy’s first season would have been a lot less enjoyable if it had just been about how the new girl doesn’t really fit in–but it’s the people and the interactions that make me keep watching. Shows can have amazingly bad productions values, even bad writing, but if they still have people who feel real to me and whose latest romantic/family disaster can make me sob, I’ll keep watching. I think it’s because it’s people who make a world.
On August 22, 2012 at 5:24 am Jenny said...
I agree that it’s always character and relationships, community, that make a strong story, especially a continuing one, but I’m still (at the moment) drawn to the supernatural more than the other series I love. I’m wondering if it isn’t the limitless possibilities, the sense that anything can happen. There are so many miracles in our everyday lives now that maybe we need Daleks to get that extra boost into the suspension of disbelief. Because I really am responding to the weirdness. It’s not just the weirdness because it’s the relationships that keep me coming back, but for some reason, right now, I need the weirdness, too.
On August 22, 2012 at 11:36 am Egads said...
For me it brings a little bit of “magic” to the world. As you put it, that childhood feeling that anything can happen. A sense of wonder. Not only magic, but an underlying belief that there is justice and rightness in the world.
On August 23, 2012 at 5:28 am JaneB said...
Do you think it’s maybe because we’re all searching for a real change of direction at the moment? The old ways are obviously broken, but there isn’t yet a new vision/worldview to take their place. So it’s a time to play with and explore all kinds of off-the-wall ideas – a brainstorming phase.
On August 23, 2012 at 12:46 pm Jenny said...
I like this idea. It’s definitely a pivotal time in our world, so many things on the brink of change, and the fantasy/supernatural worlds reflect that?
On August 23, 2012 at 8:00 pm CrankyOtter said...
I try to keep track of (mentally, not actually on a spreadsheet) how many “vigilante justice” movies come out after a tough year when we think the handbasket is headed down faster than usual. Because when people feel they don’t have power, the lure of “we’d only use vigilante justice for good” is pretty strong. And then I try not to get to freaked out when there are a lot because that kind of power always gets corrupted in the real world when hard choices get made. Supernatural things (places, beings, powers), I think, are a better way to explore new directions, or taking your power back, or making your community than revenge/justice plots. Certtainly there’s more opportunity for happiness in them. Revenge may be satisfying to some degree, but I find it leaves me cold (why I don’t like Bourne movie #2 much, but love #1 and like #4 a lot).
On August 22, 2012 at 5:29 am colognegrrl said...
I’ve tried it several times but I just can’t get into supernatural, particularly not in TV shows. What I love, however, is the creatively bizarre such as the Rocky Horror Picture Show or, of course, the Terry Pratchett novels. Addictive, they are.
Also, it’s your fault that I spend so much time watching The Big Bang Theory.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:41 am Jenny said...
Bazinga.
On August 22, 2012 at 6:03 pm colognegrrl said...
On August 22, 2012 at 6:04 am Jill Q. said...
It’s funny. I enjoy supernatural in TV shows, but not so much in books. I think if I look over my favorites: Buffy, Firefly, Eureka, Warehouse 13, Doctor Who, they have 3 things in common “likeable” characters (we could debate all day long what that means and I’m not crazy about every character on all these shows), humor and not always going for the obvious “theme” or moral.
I know there are a lot of fans of Star Trek and Farscape out there, but (runs and ducks for cover) they’ve always been a little too preachy for me. I tried to watch a few episodes with my husband and I would turn to him in the first 5 to 10 minutes and say something like “oh, this is going to be a racism is bad” episode. Now, of course I believe racism is bad too, but I don’t need to get hit over the head with a metaphor to get it. It’s a shame, I really wanted to like Farscape and I’ll never be a full fledged geek if I don’t like Star Trek.
Another completely shallow reason I like science fiction and fantasy shows is b/c they are shows my husband will actually watch with me, unlike even the best sit-coms. He runs and hides from those. He hates “embarrassment humor.”
On August 22, 2012 at 8:33 am Jill Q. said...
Oooooooh, one thing I forgot to add related to theme is that with the supernatural it is easy to tackle very big themes and find new ways of doing it. Life and death. Good and Evil. That I do like, so long as it’s done well.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:24 pm Micki said...
Oh, that’s a really important distinction — “embarrassment humor.” Thanks!! It’s true that a lot of romance have people (esp. women, but often men) put in highly embarrassing situations. Dating!! In some SF and fantasy, things are not embarrassing. The biological is somewhat logical (Spock!) and we are often concerned with the Brave, the True, the Honor and Doing the Right Thing. (But my favorite SF has tons of embarrassment humor. Now that I think about it, more than I suspected at first.)
On August 23, 2012 at 12:47 pm Jenny said...
I’m okay with embarassment humor but not humiliation humor and that’s where so much comedy is these days. That whole “let’s laugh at people’s pain” is just not for me.
On August 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm CrankyOtter said...
I cannot like this enough. Liking other people’s pain is for bullies. Or maybe for people who are desperate to see someone who has it worse than them, but this is destructive behavior. It helps no one.
I’ve never in my entire life understood how some people find this type of thing entertaining. If you haze me? I quit your organization and may never hold you in esteem for anything, ever again (sorry AFROTC, you lost me in the first week, even before you wanted me to get up early). If you play a “practical joke” on me? We’re no longer friends. You do this to someone I care about? We’re no longer friends.
I’m ok with watching people get weeded from a completition, but I’m not keen on watching them sob or cry or rant afterward, or seeing anyone else be snooty about it. I don’t want to watch you humilate your date.
Maybe fantasy novels give us more tricks at getting away from the bullies of the world?
On August 23, 2012 at 10:34 pm Micki said...
Hmmm. I’m very sensitive and can’t take much teasing, and I absolutely hate humiliation and I’m not fond of embarrassment, either. But . . . some of my favorite moments in literature stem from embarrassment/humiliation situations. I don’t know why that’s so.
I used to love Mark Twain — where Tom dosed his cat with the medicine Aunt Polly was giving him was absolutely sad, and absolutely hilarious when I was 10 or 12. I so got that . . . not so crazy about it now. And reading about what Tom and Huck did to Jim at the end of Huck Finn made me sick and mad, while I just kind of skimmed over it as a kid.
The dinner party scene in Bujold’s A Civil Campaign, however, is so beautifully orchestrated and just ridiculous thing after ridiculous thing that stems from everything that came before. And the hero kind of deserved the come down — he needed a towering in order to build things up right again. Very beautiful moment.
A lot of PG Wodehouse is humiliation and embarrassment, and I love him. Dorothy Parker! I’m particularly thinking of “The Waltz” where she is both embarrassed, and her dance partner should also be embarrassed too. James Thurber — particularly “The Night The Bed Fell on Father” (title?). Shit happens, it’s embarrassing (and sometimes it’s the relatives who are embarrassing (-:), but we survive and live to laugh about it.
Let’s not forget the dozens of little embarrassments in Pride and Prejudice. I would say some of those even veered into humiliation.
However, in the wrong hands (either the wrong writer, or the wrong reader, I’m not sure which), humiliation is terrible. I completely agree with that, too. I don’t really like bully scenarios in lit unless the bullies get their comeuppance.
On August 23, 2012 at 11:56 pm Jenny said...
I think deserved humiliation may be different, although I won’t go to the mat on that one. The hero who needs to fail in order to rise, that kind of thing. But the kind of humiliation where the writer invites the reader to feel superior to the character, that’s the deal breaker. You have to love all your characters, give them their best lines, because otherwise you’re just Frankenstein.
“The Waltz” is fascinating, one of my favorite stories of all time because the first time you read it, it’s hysterically funny, and then you read it again and again and you begin to weep for her. “Just a Little One” is even better. “Now to me, Edith looks like somebody who would eat her young.” Best line ever. But my god, your heart breaks for the narrator. I was just thinking today that we should read the “The Waltz” in 522 because of the amazing layering of character and language. That story is a linguist’s delight.
Look what I found, the original as it appeared in The New Yorker:
http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=1933-09-02#folio=010
We’re definitely reading that in 522.
On August 24, 2012 at 1:59 pm Danyelle said...
“Maybe fantasy novels give us more tricks at getting away from the bullies of the world?” Yes, definitely, for me they are an escape from reality and the stresses of living in reality. Maybe this is why I don’t drink alcohol or do drugs?
On August 25, 2012 at 7:43 am Micki said...
SQUEE! I could go back and find ALL the Dorothy Parker and ALL the Thurber in the New Yorker, with original illustrations!!! If I didn’t have to prep for class (-:. I’ll have to be satisfied with this one for now.
On August 26, 2012 at 7:02 pm Carrie said...
Hear, hear!
I have never laughed as “Fattie falls down” despite late comedian Chris Farley’s insistence that we all do. It’s cheap and easy, and I’ve never liked it.
On August 26, 2012 at 10:02 pm Jenny said...
Its the only flaw in Dodgeball, a great farce about the underdog that unfortunately forgets that fat people are underdogs, too. As we always said on Popcorn Dialogues, in the PopD cut of that movie, the fat cheerleader and the fat bad guy at the end are gone.
On August 22, 2012 at 8:33 am Pam Regis said...
Is weirdness about the making real–on the screen, right there in front of you–of the impossible? Or at the very least, of the completely off-the-wall? And then is it about how characters who are not impossible, albeit a bit off-the-wall, control that weirdness, conquer it, repel it, exile it…
Loving Firefly, blood and all.
On August 23, 2012 at 12:51 pm Jenny said...
I think that Everyman component is definitely there, especially in stories like Farscape and Eureka. The protagonist who doesn’t know what the hell is going on, is throw into the story way out of his or her depth, and still does the right thing and saves the day.
I think that’s why I’m always so happy when it’s one of the Doctor’s companions who saves the day. I EXPECT a Time Lord to fix things, but when Rose stares into the Vortex and then kicks Dalek ass, I am thrilled. A twenty-something chav defeating murderous robots and making Captain Jack immortal in the process? Go, Rose.
Of course, that’s what lost me Eccleston, too.
On September 6, 2012 at 11:39 pm Paige said...
I miss Eccleston… He was my first Doctor, and I think he did a great job in bringing viewers back to the Doctor– or, in my case introducing me to the world of the Doctor. But, my fav remains David Tennant.
To return to your question, I honestly believe that the reason *I* enjoy science fiction and fantasy (and paranormal) is that it is so far removed from reality. I choose to read romance novels because they are my preferred form of escapism. So what if I know where the plot is going to take me, I enjoy the journey. And, for me when the journey involves magic or time travel or Daleks it makes it that much more enjoyable. I don’t want to read a historical piece of non-fiction on my time off, I want to go outside of myself and try something fun. Sci-fi/fantasy is just more fun.
On a side note, have you watched Battlestar Galactica? Great space travel sci-fi show. Has an aspect of reality in the characterizations and interactions, but is so *clearly* sci-fi that reality is also suspended.
On September 7, 2012 at 11:44 am Jenny said...
I watched the first season of BG and then wandered off, not because it wasn’t good; I just had too much on plate.
It’s a VERY close call between Eccleston and Tennant; they’re both superb. I like Smith, but I think this incarnation is a little too impish for me to take as seriously as the others. He seems like a little kid in a way that Nine and Ten don’t. Eccleston did it best, I think, because there was some gravitas there. I believed everything about that Doctor, including the idea that he could save worlds. There was more of a sense of the past weighing on him, so that even when he’d look at something and say, “Fantastic!” you got more of a sense of hope than awe. And then he lost everything to save Rose. Still makes me weep buckets. Tennant did the same thing but without as much sadness underneath; the universe really had to bash him before the hardness underneath all that enthusiasm came out. And even then, he was so careful and so smart. That “Don’t you think she looks tired?” bit to take down Harriet Jones (I love Harriet Jones, RIP, Daleks suck) was so quiet and so devastating. I’m enjoying Eleven, but when I need a Who Fix, I go to Nine and Ten, and if I’m in a really bad place, it’s Nine every time.
On October 18, 2012 at 6:34 pm Bonnie C said...
Bad place = Ten and “Silence in the Library.” Some of the best writing in television, hands down. Oh, my kingdom to be able to write a character as awesome as River Song.
On October 19, 2012 at 4:30 pm Jenny said...
River Song annoys the hell out of me. But then I’m an Eccleston Whovian so Rose is the standard of excellence for me.
Very polarizing show, Dr. Who. But so, so good.
On August 22, 2012 at 9:28 am Cassie said...
I think it’s the purity of human relationships as the story. Society always provides a context, like race, class, history, culture, that is an always-present factor in the way humans relate to each other. But fantasy allows you strip that out entirely, to create your own context in which you can examine the nature of friendship, love, animosity etc. I might not be making sense because I’m drinking beer right now.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:45 am Jenny said...
It definitely allows you to strip out current culture context and substitute something different, which can seem fresher as long as you don’t choose something equally familiar, like the culture that’s another-world Medieval culture, which is the most common fantasy fallback.
On August 22, 2012 at 6:08 pm toni said...
One of the appeals for me, right now, and a reason I keep reading more and more fantasy as well as seeking out fantasy on TV is the absolute frustration I feel with what’s going on in our own country right now. There are so many not-easily-fixable problems, and some of them are so freaking huge, it’s overwhelming and I find myself angry. I wake up angry. I used to never do that. And escaping for a little while into another mythos / society entirely and watching those character grapple with their world and seeing that they sometimes win gives me a sense of peace. A sense that somewhere, at least, something can be fixed.
On August 22, 2012 at 7:32 pm Deborah Blake said...
Exactly. Me too. (Meet you at the TV.)
On August 23, 2012 at 12:52 pm Jenny said...
I agree. Plus the idea that there are people in this alternate reality who WILL fix it. I’d love to turn Dr. Who loose on Congress. Not one political party, the whole damn mess.
And the first thing he’d do is discover that Akin is a Dalek.
On August 23, 2012 at 3:42 pm Cammie said...
Nah, Daleks are smarter than Akin!
On August 22, 2012 at 9:38 am oneoftheotherjennifers said...
For me it’s all about the heroes. Demonstrations of strength (inside and out) and courage. Magic increases that exponentially, because if the hero controls magic himself, it is an additional facet of strength. If he doesn’t possess it himself, he has to show even greater strength and courage to overcome those who do.
I also like magic because it, ironically, highlights the value of those non-magical characteristics that are the most golden-glowy. Magic alone never solves the characters problems. It is always intelligence, courage, perseverance, and loyalty that win the battle. The magic makes a lovely backdrop that emphasizes that fact.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:46 am Jenny said...
It’s good if the magic/advanced science/etc. is a double-edged sword. Eureka was good at that; their scientists were always losing control of something, and common sense Carter would figure out the solution by not looking at the science.
On August 22, 2012 at 9:51 am Deborah Blake said...
I love the creativity and quirkiness that are possible in the fantasy and SF shows. I think Sherlock is as close to that as I have seen in non-fantasy. But I also like that it ISN’T real life. If I wanted reality, I’d look out the window. I want something different from the stuff I live with every day. The themes may be the same, the issues the same, but the reality is different. And I want–need–that escape. That’s why I like magic.
[And, btw, I thought you'd written a blog post about my cat...whose name is Magic. She was very disappointed to find out it wasn't so,]
On August 22, 2012 at 9:55 am Beth said...
“What is it about this stuff that’s so powerful?”
It’s hope. That there really IS something else out there. That the wonderful and fantastic are everywhere, as long as I remember to look. That we need to keep working for “good” instead of evil or indifference (which might actually be worse than evil…) And it’s fun.
Best Dr Who episode EVER = The Doctor’s Wife by Neil Gaiman.
On August 23, 2012 at 12:56 pm Jenny said...
I like that, too, the idea that this is not all there is (although this can be amazing some times, more than often lately it’s just depressing).
“The Doctor’s Wife” is good–and I love that they never explain the title, they trust the viewer to understand–but I’m thinking it’s still “The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances” for me. Although the moment when Amy stands up at her wedding and says, “There’s somebody missing” and yells for the Doctor gives me chills every time. And then there’s . . .
Never mind. I’m a Whovian to the bone; I could do this all day. It’s Buffy all over again.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:33 am Lola said...
There’s also Poltergeist:The Legacy on Hulu. It was a Canadian supernatural that ran for four season. I can only find s1 & s2, it doesn’t look like s4 &s5 made it to DVD. Which kills me because I already know the ending of s4 and I wanna see it. (skip s1e2 about the lady giving birth to a demon baby. It’s beyond cheesy. oh, and there’s some nudity.)
I prefer Supernatural over Grimm. I tried to watch Grimm but in my mind it’s a police show with monsters. I think maybe I like the freedom Sam and Dean have, and any other monster hunters who don’t have to play by the rules. I never got into the X-Files, but loved Farscape, Firefly, Buffy. They’re part of a team, a community, but they also do their own thing and decide their own fate. I’m self-employed and independence is a huge deal for me both in real life and what shows I watch. I can skip Big Bang and watch it later, but I’ll schedule my nights around shows like Buffy or Supernatural.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:49 am Jenny said...
One of the things that makes me lose interest in a show is when the mythology overtakes the stories. I loved Supernatural until the overall mythology seemed to dominate every show. Buffy always had a season-long arc, but except for the Initiative (my least fave), she kept having to fight the little battles, too, and whatever the big stuff was, it was over at the end of the season. Both Supernatural and the X-Files were smothered by their own mythologies for me.
On August 22, 2012 at 12:15 pm Lola said...
Loved the mythology in seasons 1-5 of Supernatural and how it reflected Sam & Dean’s own life. The seasons after 5 are mostly just monster of the season and aren’t nearly as good as s1-s5. IMO. Plus the guys are getting old. I’m hoping Jeremy Carver as show runner will give it new life because I’m losing interest.
Buffy is timeless.
On August 23, 2012 at 12:59 pm Jenny said...
I loved Season 1 which was Monster of the Week, but it scared the living hell out of me. It was so good I had to watch it, but I’d tape it so I could watch it in the sunlight.
I need to go back to the beginning with that one because it had such excellent things in it. I had the Season One DVDs but I loaned them to Bob while we were writing Wild Ride (demon research!) and when he gave them back I put them somewhere . . . plus he lost one disk on a plane somewhere. Much better to get them streaming on the net anyway.
On August 23, 2012 at 11:14 pm Katie said...
There were more Monster of the Week episodes this past year. And even in the mythology-heavy seasons, there was some Monster of the Week gold – the wishing well episode with the giant bi-polar talking teddy bear was amazing. Also the black and white monster movie episode right after Dean came back from Hell.
On August 22, 2012 at 11:24 am Sam said...
Some of my favorite supernatural stories delve into what it means to be human by exploring what isn’t.
One of the episode duos of Dr. Who, “Human Nature” and “The Family of the Blood,” has the nurse longing for the short-lived human incarnation of the Doctor who was confused and deeply conflicted but still struggled to do right, as compared to the alien Doctor, who hid from his enemies at a boarding school without thinking of what might happen to the kids. (We all know the Doctor has a heart — or two — but the nurse’s refusal to become the Doctor’s companion was strangely moving.)
My favorite monsters are the ones that aren’t monsters at all, but creatures or machines that are just doing their job — the nano-whatchamacalits in “The Empty Child,” the organ-harvesting ship in “The Girl in the Fireplace,” the mermaid-nurse on the pirate ship, the cloned “gangers,” the flying whale in, well, the episode with the flying whale. The characters’ reactions and assumptions about the “evil” enemy also tell us something about human nature.
Any sentence that begins “fantasy is about X,” is suspect, but here goes: it’s about breaking the basic barriers we face as humans, time and space. (Being earthbound and powerless, too, I suppose.) The best fantasy delivers moments of transcendence that give me the shivers, from flight to love that crosses centuries, metal-box prisons, and, of course, death.
But I do agree that “Love and Monsters” was dreadful. I have no desire whatsoever to see love transcend the barrier of poured concrete.
Looking forward to seeing “Farscape” and the other suggestions on the list!
On August 22, 2012 at 11:58 am Jennifer said...
” I have no desire whatsoever to see love transcend the barrier of poured concrete.”
Amen to THAT. Did not need to know about their sex life either, thanks.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:02 pm Jenny said...
That was a Davies episode, too. I hated that episode on so many levels but a big one was what it did to the Doctor’s character. Over and over again, it’s emphasized how much the Doctor loves the human race, and yet very good people die in that one and one is put into a living death as a concrete slab, and he has no sympathy at all; the whole thing is treated as a joke in the show and he’s pretty much, “Gotta run, here’s your concrete.” It was awful.
On August 22, 2012 at 11:39 am Jinx said...
I think it has to do with armor and the conditions under which we build it, plus the situations in which we find it being dismantled so that the vulnerable self, which means the real self, is revealed.
Think about small boys, and all the things they’re afraid of, and all the ways they try to protect themselves — with bravado, with reticence, with “I don’t care” and “I won’t cry” and pushing away all the things they think will get them labeled weak or “girly.”
We know those small boys when they have grown up to be big ones, and we admire the strong & capable personas they’ve created by doing all that armoring, but our stories need to include a point where they surrender the armoring stuff in order to let their own vulnerability and warmth and emotional selves out. When those selves emerge, there can be connection, and romance.
And the whole supernatural realm, where there are mysterious forces that act at a distance on other people or things, as well as mysterious forms of armor, mysterious threats, unknown dangers all over the place — I think it’s like giving substance to the world we inhabit in childhood, which is full of similarly mysterious forces and rules and feelings. There we are in the middle of it, as unassuming as the Doctor, as vulnerable as the Assistant, and as helpless as any air-breathing human out in space somewhere.
I think as women, we’re more comfortable than men about revealing that we have feelings, and concern or empathy for children or animals or other creatures who need help and nurturing. But we keep secrets, and inhabit roles, and have a kind of power over some things in a way that emotionally armored men often lack. And we are really obsessed with psyching out the differences between good and evil — is this a nice person? Can I trust this guy? Do I believe what these people are saying?
So really, witches and wizards and Time Lords and dragons and such express a lot of those issues really well. They make a lot of the psychological substrata very obvious in some other garb, which lets us feel a lot of feelings that otherwise are hard to sort out from the daily background noise. And when a couple of good people finally get to a point where they can doff the armor with each other, and just be their real childlike selves, especially in the face of danger from yukky powerful people, it’s like magic.
Or at least that’s the way it seems to me.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:05 pm Jenny said...
I think this is excellent. Is it easier, do you think, for men in fantasy to show emotion than it is in stories set in the real world? The Doctor is pretty stoic most of the time (when he’s not shouting “Fantastic!”) which is why his pain on leaving Rose (twice) is so devastating.
I might be all wet on that “male emotion easier in fantasy” stuff since most of the fantasy male protagonists we’ve been talking about–the Doctor, Jack Carter, John Crichton, Sam and Dean–are very much stoic uber-males. Well, you know, hero-types.
On August 23, 2012 at 8:55 pm Jinx said...
Well, I think my idea has to do with the conditions needed to crack the facade of that uber-male, along with enough convenient mumbo-jumbo to make some things more obvious, other things more revelatory, along with a boatload of symbolic meaningfulness thrown into the mix.
I mean, the opposition is trying to DESTROY THE PLANET, which means adorable love interest is IN TERRIBLE DANGER, and mysterious veiled being from Samarkand or someplace is able to TRAVEL IN TIME so she can warn our hero about SOMETHING CRITICAL, but his powers are hampered by a SECRET MAGICAL WEAKNESS that no one must know about, however an APPALLING CHANGE IN THE RULES OF PHYSICS has made it impossible to conceal the weakness, but the DIRE PERIL causes STILL MORE MAGICAL CAPACITIES to awaken in our hero, who suddenly sees a vision of his elderly mentor, who DIED SAVING THAT OTHER PLANET and in doing so gained IMPOSSIBLE POST-DEATH TELEPATHY, and so the hero has to CONFESS MENTALLY his complete up-the-creekishness, but just in the NICK OF TIME a …. yada yada yada.
It’s a little like Survivor, I think. Survivor in real time, with meal breaks and wifi and comfy hotel suites with room service wouldn’t crack open the shells of the uber-males, wouldn’t cause alliances or feuds to take on immense importance, and wouldn’t make starving, emotionally raw young people get incredibly connected to one another, pro or con, within the space of a few days or weeks. And the Survivor show designers build the same kind of daunting rope thingamajigs that an evil mage might build out of MORGAN-LE-FANIUM or whatever. They handicap the contestants in a way some hex or kryptonite or unearthly Spacemoss might do in a fantasy setting. And they stress the hell out of everyone, commenting gleefully in a voiceover about all the weakness these obstacles are revealing about the poor victim/contestants. Plus, somebody is *killed* booted off the island for losing, so then you’ve got more good plotting, starvation and schadenfreude.
And then in a fantasy show or movie, because it’s fantasy, there always seems to be a higher percentage of girls around than you’d see in a normal war or spy movie, and they have the potential to wield powers equal to or almost equal to the men, because it’s FANTASY, after all. Or their helplessness acts out the emotional self that Mister Macho couldn’t possibly admit to having inside his hard candy shell, shivering with fear, and calling out with increasing neediness “Doctor! Doctor… Doctor?”
On August 28, 2012 at 2:08 pm JC said...
all that STUFF with the CAPS is EXTREMELY FUNNY!
On August 22, 2012 at 11:53 am Jennifer said...
What I love most about these shows is that they aren’t my boring-ass dreary reality. None of these people spend all day long on a computer in a cube and their biggest thrill of the week is going to Costco. They live lives where they get to be themselves. They get adventure. They get to go to strange places and do interesting things more than once or twice a year and only for a week. They’re living on the edge of glory. They feel like they are actually living life. Whereas the rest of us have to live vicariously because we’re never even going to get close to those feelings or experiences. Or level of attractiveness either
I don’t want to be in our reality. I’d hop into a strange portal in a second. I want OUT OF HERE.
On August 22, 2012 at 10:37 pm Micki said...
Love, but I’ve found the holy grail of Cheese With Actual Taste at Costco, too, and find that an adventure worth a quest of three hours, battling the demon drivers who are Very Afraid of Tunnels (and slow down to about 30 mph/50 kph when driving through them). (-: Not sure which I’d choose on a given Saturday . . . it would depend on my energy levels, I guess (-:.
On August 22, 2012 at 12:00 pm Bill Peschel said...
“I worry a lot about that formal structure language [he means talking about writing-book lessons such as three-act structure, inciting incident and denouement] because it’s the one thing that the inexperienced cling to. A learnt language. Like a set of crutches. Meetings throughout the [British TV] industry now consist of script editors and producers sitting there saying, ‘Where’s the Second-Act Reversal?’ Idiots. Really, they should be saying, ‘Who is this man? Why is he scared? Does his wife really love him? Can he really kill her?’ They talk about the shape, not the essence, obscuring valid discussion of the actual story — and story is far more important. … If you’re a writer, don’t fret away the hours worrying about this structure stuff. All the joy and fear and fun and despair is in the writing, not in the flowchart.”
– Russell T Davies, “Doctor Who: The Writer’s Tale”
(Just finished this brilliant book. Dr. Who fans who want to relive this fourth series from within and writers needing insight into the creative process should get this book.)
We’re drawn to great series because they have multiple pleasure points that you can flit to when one gets too boring. The supernatural also takes us out of this world and the distraction eases the pressure of living the same old lives, day in and day out.
(And I loved “Love and Monsters” — I love all the shows — but maybe they because they also threw in ELO.)
On August 23, 2012 at 1:09 pm Jenny said...
GMTA, I just ordered that book. Along with the Mythology of Dr. Who and The Philosophy of Dr Who. Because.
I agree with him about the structure thing to a point. They are definitely asking the wrong questions, but on the other hand, they’re not always dealing with Russell T. Davies, Steven Moffat, and Joss Whedon. With those guys, you step back and say, “Go for it.” But with other writers who have fabulous ideas but are a little loose in the loafers on storytelling as an art, you need to have somebody saying, “What happens in the second act? Because so far, it’s all sword fights and it’s not going anywhere.”
On August 23, 2012 at 4:57 pm Beth said...
I’m thinking of that painful episode where they were flashing back and forth between 2 realities, neither of which was real. An alter ego of the Doctor was the villain and the story ended with the Doctor flushing some dream crystals out of the Tardis and then seeing his alter ego reflected. I don’t know who wrote it or what it was called.
To be charitable, I think the story was probably written alright but didn’t translate from the page very well. But it’s ought to be in everyone’s Top 5 worst episodes ever.
On August 22, 2012 at 12:07 pm Sure Thing said...
“They were never lovers but they loved each other and that’s incredibly powerful.” Like Mal and Zoë in War Stories – Firefly. She knew him so well, she knew he’d handle Niska more than Wash would. And he trusted she’d come back for him.
I love the alternative or supernatural because it gives ordinary people the chance to be exceptional – Xander in Buffy. And it makes clear distinction between the hero and everybody else – Giles and Ben when Glory was the Big Bad in Buffy.
When we- *I* know what is heroic – I have a yardstick by which to measure myself. I’ll not be dusting vamps anytime soon but I can serve well – as Buffy does. So much so, that people notice and give her (me) a frilly parasol in gratitude. And later on she becomes a true leader. Service comes before leadership. Because when we serve well, people automatically lift us to leadership.
Also, sometimes things that are too close to reality are not escapist enough. Real life is tough enough and I need to medicate.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:12 pm Jenny said...
Your point about service is a really good one; most of the fantasy protagonists really are in service to mankind (or whatever kind is on the planet they’re standing on). There’s so much selfishness in our Real World right now that it’s sickening, so to watch the Doctor tell Harriet Jones “that was a mistake,” and then bring her down (even though I adore Harriet Jones) is really satisfying.
And yeah, the parasol moment in Buffy still makes me cry.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:05 pm cleo said...
I like fantasy because of the metaphors – not the preachy, racism-is-bad metaphors that someone mentioned upthread, but well done explorations of human emotions in not necessarily human form.
That’s why I love Buffy – I used to tell anyone who was skeptical of the show that it was the most emotionally true portrayal of being a teenager on tv. I love the “high school is hell” metaphor of the first few seasons (that episode where Xander and some random kids are accidentally possessed by hyenas and eat the principal – omg, as a teacher, I’ve experienced that, metaphorically speaking). And when Buffy finally slept with Angel only to have him lose his soul and turn evil? That happened to one of my girlfriends in high school.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:13 pm Jenny said...
That happens to a lot of women.
Yeah, Whedon worked those metaphors beautifully, never heavy-handed. But then Buffy was a work of art.
On August 22, 2012 at 1:06 pm cleo said...
One more thought – I think fantasy adds a layer of separation that actually lets us go deeper into the real emotions. I’d much rather watch Angel resist his darker urges and struggle to keep his soul than watch an equally well done non-fantasy show about a recovering alcoholic struggle to keep his sobriety. Fantasy is way more fun, and it’s more emotionally engaging (when done right).
On August 23, 2012 at 1:14 pm Jenny said...
Oh, good point. Possibly because we know that the recovering alcoholic will be recovering forever, whereas Angel can actually recover.
That may be why I loathed that whole Willow-is-addicted-to-magic arc, aside from the fact that it was stupid and never worked as a metaphor anyway.
On August 23, 2012 at 11:20 pm Katie said...
I happened to be taking a gender studies class and reading a memoir about growing up in a bad neighborhood in the Bronx when I read Kelley Armstrong for the first time, and the werewolf dynamic, the feminist theory (construction of masculinity) and the code-of-the-street roots of violence all got tangled up in my head. I don’t know if she was doing it intentionally but she really nailed werewolves as a metaphor for the negative consequences of how we define manhood. I often wish I could have done a paper
On August 22, 2012 at 1:17 pm romney said...
New series of Dr Who starts on September 1st!
BBC America trailer out today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNHEEZ_I74U
On August 23, 2012 at 1:16 pm Jenny said...
New companion in mid-season, too. At least this time, it won’t be heartbreaking since the Doctor is more detached from Amy than from anybody since Martha. Although if I know Moffat, he’ll break my heart anyway. He put a good dent in it with the season finale of Sherlock 2.
On August 24, 2012 at 3:12 pm Beth Matthews said...
Yeah, I cried like a baby at the end of the season finale of Sherlock.
On October 18, 2012 at 7:16 pm Bonnie C said...
“At least this time, it won’t be heartbreaking since the Doctor is more detached from Amy than from anybody since Martha.”
Wow. YMMV is certainly true here – lol! I couldn’t disagree with you more. Eleven and Amy have one of the tightest relationships in this current generation (imho). Maybe because I’ve just run through all six seasons straight through (again… it’s become my go-to) so it’s all very fresh in my mind? Amy has essentially been with Eleven since she was a child and there’s a very strong older brother/uncle vibe that’s developed over their seasons with Rory balancing them beautifully.
FWIW, since I’m joining this conversation so stinking late, I hated “The Angels Take Manhattan”. Moffat truly dropped the ball, which is stunning to me since I’ve elevated him to near-Whedon status in my world.
On August 23, 2012 at 4:58 pm Beth said...
I thought it was this weekend, 08/25.
On August 22, 2012 at 2:27 pm Strop said...
It’s another world to escape into. If I fell through a wormhole/ gap in the space-time continuum I would be leaving all my CRAP from this world behind.
Plus, I think I am drawn to stories where a bunch of characters look out for one another. And the women can be really physical.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:17 pm Jenny said...
That’s another good point. I love the women in fantasy. Even the Doctor’s companions who are nominally there to say, “Be careful, Doctor,” walk over him to get to the monster and save the world.
On August 22, 2012 at 3:02 pm Karen said...
At the risk of dating myself, have been a Tom Baker Dr. Who fan for decades. I enjoy the new ones as well, but Tom really did it for me. The sense of humor while battling evil was delightful. Absolutely favorite Buffy episode was the musical. Eureka and Warehouse 13 also great. All the monsters carry aspects of humanity gone amok. Speaking of amok, remember Mr Spock in the original Star Trek? However, the scariest monster ever, in my opinion was the manifestation of the subconscious in The Forbidden Planet. That classic movie based somewhat on Shakespeare’s The Tempest showed how technology could be more powerful than we humans could handle, and our own worst enemies exist within ourselves -Wow! Plus of course gotta love Robby the robot.
On August 24, 2012 at 11:48 am lee said...
Tom Baker is MY doctor; apparently imprinting when I mumblefifteen is intense
On August 22, 2012 at 3:35 pm Katie said...
I like the separation from the real world. At the same time, in books and TV, I go for urban fantasy rather than straight fantasy (Grimm over say, Game of Thrones), because while I like the addition of “something more,” I still want the world and the characters grounded in the world I know to some degree. I feel like that makes it easier to relate to, and it keeps the story/plot from being overwhelmed with explanations of the world – that never fails to drive me off. Escapism without the mythology headache.
I also think I like it partly because they can make the stakes so high (stop the gate to hell from opening, keep the super-volcano from blowing up the world). Sometimes it’s just fun to see a challenge that big. It’s also a chance to push the characters and explore who they are. I cry every time Buffy sends Angel to hell in Becoming.
Characters a big part of it for me. Didn’t watch Grimm for months because Nick started off so boring. But everyone from Buffy and Firefly, and Warehouse 13, are great. I have to want to spend time with them. I like the team dynamic, especially the creation of a family/community. I’ve also noticed that the shows that work for me almost always involve humor. But that’s true of the shows I watch in every genre.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:19 pm Jenny said...
Yeah, I need a protagonist with a sense of humor. Grimm without Monroe would not be watchable. I think Nick is that Cute Everyman the viewer attaches to because he’s a clueless as we are, and we learn the whole Grimm thing with him. Such a nice boy. Then he bites the tongue of a hexenbeast and I think, “Okay, there may be more to this guy than I thought.” But really, in Grimm, it’s Monroe.
On August 23, 2012 at 11:24 pm Katie said...
I do love Monroe. I laughed so hard this week when he said, “Cheapskate doesn’t know how close she came to having her throat ripped out” and his girlfriend said “How sweet. Maybe later.” Nick definitely improved. He really shines in those fight scenes. And sending the Reapers’ heads back to their boss in Germany? As Castle would say, Classic.
On August 22, 2012 at 3:44 pm Redwood Kim said...
So I had to share this with you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvB-SWmXrRU&feature=share
Yikes. Don’t know how to embed the link. Very embarrassing. But it’s Dr. stuff.
On August 22, 2012 at 7:43 pm Deborah Blake said...
The video was great, Kim! Thanks for sharing.
On August 22, 2012 at 4:06 pm Cammie Watson said...
This is a recommendation from my daughters–audio/radio plays of the Eighth Doctor (Paul McGann) http://bigfinish.com/ranges/v/eighth-doctor-adventures. Very strong female characters and good plots (I have only listened to one or two but got a real kick out of Lucy Miller and Mary Shelley–yes, THE Mary Shelley). And the reason I like science fiction and fantasy is because I want to live where cars and maybe people can fly.
On August 22, 2012 at 4:11 pm Olga Godim said...
Unlike most people here, I’m not a fan of the screen, big or small. Dr. Who doesn’t do anything for me, but books, oh yes. I read speculative fiction all the time and love it. Because it gives you heroes, but even more because it takes you away from here and now, from your health problems and your children’s problems and your financial problems. For that hour (or two or three) than I’m glued to the rerun of Buffy or a Sharon Shinn’s novel, I forget my life with its insecurities and its mortgage payments its political upheavals. Fantasy takes me away. That’s why I write it too: to get away, to escape. Like an ostrich, I burrow my head in an imaginary world and pretend it’s real; there I don’t have to think about the dental appointment tomorrow.
On August 22, 2012 at 4:23 pm Redwood Kim said...
Ooh, it did embed. And I wrote that poor;y. It’s a Dr. Who parody of Call Me Maybe. Pretty funny.
On August 22, 2012 at 4:41 pm Jen said...
I am. SO. excited you wrote a blog post almost entirely devoted to the Doctor. There are so many Americans who don’t know about him and are missing out on a wonderfully wise, eccentric, amazing, yet flawed hero. He is my favorite Sci Fi character from the time I was a child. He puts his friends first but can be flawed in his devotion and utter genius. I won’t lie after crying my eyes out watching the Doctor and Rose’s final farewell, I wrote some chapters of a book I’d hoped to publish (it might have been too many years by now!) but I think the thing about the Doctor is how utterly devoted to his relationships he is but still keeps a distance since he knows he will always outlive his companions. Like Jack Carter his companions always have a way of thinking outside the box the Doctor doesn’t come up with, showing that while brillant and possibly all knowing, the Doctor has flaws, making him human in a way… his companions remind me of a damsel in distress who finally saves herself and grabs the knight on her way out as well.
Thanks for the Doctor Who post! Oh and Love and Monsters was AWFUL!
On August 23, 2012 at 1:21 pm Jenny said...
I think the reason the farewells to Rose are so awful is because she’s the one he fell in love with. He loves the others–I love his relationship with Donna–but Rose is the one he dances with. This may be why I cannot warm up to River Song.
On August 22, 2012 at 6:14 pm Louise said...
In my humble opinion, I think it’s because they are *extraordinary* and they struggle with the ordinary, but powerful emotions — such as love, and human interaction. We empathize with their struggled to cope with something they feel they can’t have.
On August 22, 2012 at 8:39 pm McB said...
Why do I like supernatural/fantasy? Isn’t there enough reality in the world? What I want in a book/movie/tv show is ESCAPE. I want the good guys kicking bad guy butt and coming up with a solution before the credits roll.
On August 23, 2012 at 12:13 am Marta said...
I don’t care if it’s fantasy, sf, romance, etc., I just want a strong community no matter how small. I want there to be a group of people who are connected to each other, there for each other, who may be flawed but not outright jerks.
On August 23, 2012 at 12:22 am Micki said...
The reason why I truly love fantasy (and to some extent SF) is the amazing juxtapositions that can take place. Believable conflict? Great. Deeper understanding of what it is to be human? Great. Amazing characters and characterizations? Great, great? But a woman who goes off-planet and has a sex-change so that she can inherit her dead brother’s countship? EXCELLENT? A tall guy who identifies as a dwarf because adoption is thicker than water? WONDERFUL! Mechanical bunny slippers possessed by sentients? OMG, WHEN CAN I READ THIS?
I agree with a lot of what other people said upthread about fantasy allowing the reader and the writer to dissect things at a remove and make things less painful.
Also, I found this great blog post by Lois McMaster Bujold that explores the differences between genres — after hearing her speak in Colorado a few years ago, her ideas have really informed the way I think about romance, science fiction and other genres. http://www.myspace.com/loismcmasterbujold/blog/541941785
Finally, these stories have appealed to geeks throughout the ages. Anyone who writes about gods have these amazing stories that help us examine life — Aesop’s talking animals, Ovid’s stories (or any Greek or Roman or Norse stories along those lines). Icarus! Now, a story about Willa who wants to turn the ranch into an organic showcase but her father says stick to the gov’t subsidies can be a great story in the right hands — but where are the wings and the melting wax?
On August 23, 2012 at 1:29 pm Jenny said...
I printed that off to read later because Lois is so so so smart about fantasy. Well, about everything really.
On August 23, 2012 at 8:11 am Emily said...
I figured out recently why I’ve never really engaged totally in Dr Who – quite enjoy it, but it’s not a must-watch for me. I think that’s because I can’t invest in the bond between the Doctor and his companions. You just get into it, get to know the companion, get to believe in the relationship between them, and then the companion’s gone and you have to reconnect with another companion. It’s inevitable. Which is also why, apart from Neil Gaiman’s utterly brilliant writing, I LOVE the episode The Doctor’s Wife. It was a beautiful look at the one relationship in the series that is always there and always growing, but never really explored – the Doctor and his TARDIS. It’s the episode that has taken over the rest of the series in my mind.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:32 pm Jenny said...
See, I thought that was a great episode with one huge flaw: they took her voice away. So the Doctor’s perfect companion is one who takes care of him, protects him, takes him the places he needs to go, and never says a word. Hello, Perfect Fifties Wife.
While she was talking, she was fabulous. And I loved how the story basically codified everything you knew about the Tardis throughout the series. But no voice? Might as well have made her a slab of concrete.
What is it with these throwback ideas of what makes a great wife?
On August 23, 2012 at 12:41 pm kate ramos said...
Well there are only a few themes in the world right? love, friendship, betrayal . . . etc etc. that you can work with. It is very finite. But you throw it into a fantasy world and you have whole new ways to explore the themes. In love with a witch? friendship with a demon? same inherent concepts but with twists that the world hasn’t really done yet. Only so many romance stories you can read or watch without wishing one of them was a demon, a witch or a doctor. I have read thousands of paranormal books (not exagerating either) and a lot of them are written by writers who got bored of the normal stuff. You know what, that is what you need to do – switch. that is why you are watching supernatural tv shows – its sign from above! (imagining you writing a piece of Supernatural fan fiction – a story about sam and dean from your perspective! Now that would be fabulous)
On August 23, 2012 at 1:40 pm Jenny said...
Huh. Fan fiction. Not Supernatural, much as I love Sam and Dean, unless I could bring back Ruby. Did they bring back Ruby? I think I only saw the first three seasons, but I’m pretty sure she was one dead demon at the end of what I saw. A witch-demon in love with a supernatural good guy. I could work with that.
Not Doctor Who, either. Too guy-centered for me to write.
I loved Aunt Marie on Grimm, but again, dead.
I did think about writing short stories about Delphie as she grew up, but then I got tangled up in lineage. Mom was child of two humans and two demons, so half demon. Delphie is child of Mom, demon Fun and human forget his name, so half demon again? Then Fun was really a deposed god, so she’d have that going for her. And then my mind wandered because that was too much thinking.
On August 23, 2012 at 1:57 pm stephanie said...
I’ve never really figured out Doctor Who but the kidlets love it. If they haven’t gotten to watch some in a couple of days they’ll stand in front of one of us with pleading eyes and say, “Don’t you think it’s time to watch some Doctor Who?” And it has this sing-songy kid voice. Then followed by a robot-voice, “We will exterminate. We will exterminate.” I’m not sure they understand it but I find it intriguing that they like it.
I’m trying to follow the plot so I can keep up with them. I saw the farewell to Rose. We all had a good cry. I’m guessing they’ll have much to talk about on the playground when they go back to school this fall. I’m anticipating a note from the kindergarten teacher when playtime comes around to “We will exterminate. We will exterminate.”
On August 23, 2012 at 5:04 pm Beth said...
I have a Dalak action figure. It’s battery operated and says 5 phrases. it’s really cute having my 2.75 ask for the “robot” and then try to repeat them.
And they sell inflatable Dalaks for kids to ride in. We bought one but had to return it. They have a 2 hp motor and are the iDalak colors…
On August 23, 2012 at 9:53 pm Jinx said...
Damn. I want one.
On August 24, 2012 at 1:49 pm Danyelle said...
For me, it’s not ANOTHER doctor or lawyer or police show. It’s not the standard show that I am tired of. Also, the Big Bad is obvious: vampires or demons, etc. It’s all about the battle between Good and Evil. In a fantasy show, the Evil is obvious and the hero can fight it. In the “real” world, the evil is everywhere and sometimes it is a doctor or lawyer or the police. That’s much more difficult to fight.
On August 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm Katrina said...
So… I’ve been obsessing over podcasts lately and found one called “I should be writing,” which, of course, I should. But my point is that the theme song for the podcast cracked me up and immediately made me think of YOU!
If you haven’t heard it you can find it here:
http://itunes.apple.com/podcast/i-should-be-writing/id79085800?mt=2
The words that got me are:
I should be writing, I should be submitting my rough draft
instead of sitting here watching Dr. Who.
On August 24, 2012 at 9:53 pm Jenny said...
Dr. Who is crack for writers. I’d say more, but I need to rewatch some Tenth Doctor.
On August 27, 2012 at 3:55 am Lee said...
I recently discovered the new-and-upgraded-for-a-new-generation Doctor Who and am currently working my way through season 2. I discovered after tonight’s fix that tomorrow’s episode (aren’t I being so very good by limiting myself to one episode at a time???) is “Love and Monsters”.
I was ready to dislike it sight unseen based on your comments, but saw in the preview that the lovely and talented Marc Warren is a guest star. His turns as Danny Blue and Mr. Te-ah-tim-eh have primed me to like *anything* he’s in; on the other hand, if you don’t like it… Well, I’ll find out tomorrow, for good or for ill.
On August 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm Jenny said...
It has Shirley Henderson, too, who is one of my all-time faves. That may be another reason I loathed it so: her character ends up with such a ridiculous, miserable fate. Mostly it’s because I really hate the sensibility behind it and one of the reasons is that I think it violates the Doctor’s approach to humanity. He just wouldn’t do that. I think without the ending, I’d have liked it more, but as a whole, it’s just a weak, dumb episode. IMHO (g). YMMD.
On August 28, 2012 at 9:58 pm Kathy said...
If you like Dr. Who, Eureka, Warehouse 13, etc. you’ll love Firefly and Serenity (if you haven’t already discovered it). I’m a big fan of your books and your blog, and I’m just silly excited that you love a lot of the same things I love too!
On August 29, 2012 at 7:51 am Emmeri said...
I was never a big fan of fantasy for years but then my husband convinced me to see Firefly and I was hooked (when I speak about fantasy I mean sci-fi and fantasy together, I like both).
For me good fantasy usually has:
1. Interesting, unique and/or colorful characters who fit into the surrounding world but aren’t superficial, in the sense that they help the plot not just add extra dialogue (i.e. Spike from Buffy, Badger from Firefly, Kincaid from The Dresden Files)
2. A very well developed world, but one that still has mystery (i.e. Firefly -I want to know about those blue gloves!)
3. Character interactions and (for TV) good acting with each other, playing off each other effortlessly (TV: Firefly, Eureka, Red Dwarf, Angel, Buffy, Warehouse 13, Charmed, Dr. Who, The 10th Kingdom, Dark Angel, Dead Like Me) Books: too many to name.
4. There is humor and great lines (all of the shows I mentioned above, books: The Dresden Files, Glen Cook’s The Dread Empire, Margaret Weis The Knights of the Black Earth, Terry Pratchett everything)
In a fantasy world anything goes as long as the writer sets limits and sticks with those rules (Battlestar Galactica did not do this well and the inconsistent plot made me want to tear my hair out). Or if the rules/limits change there is a reason for it.
I like being able to pick up a book and not know exactly how the plot will twist or what will occur at the end.
On August 29, 2012 at 11:14 am Kelly S said...
I’m late to the posting and there are 103 comments which I didn’t read yet. Instead, I’m just answering the question asked. For me, fantasy is attractive because it isn’t real. At times, life is hard and it is a delightful thought that I could leave this world and land in a world where I’m the hero. I have value, am needed, perhaps I’ll have super powers over there and because I’m the side of good, I will win despite the trials. Here in reality, I may be needed although I may never be told that, my value is harder to pin down, no super powers beyond being me and there isn’t the same guarantee of winning so the trials are just hard. Of course, if I was in a Guy Gabriel Kay book, no guarantee of surviving even if I am the hero so pick your story tellers well.