Verisimilitude, That Bitch
Jul202012
One of the things that kept bothering me while I was writing Liz is that I have no idea what it means to be a single thirty-something in the twenty-first century. While I realize that there are many single-thirty-something-in-the-twenty-first-century experiences, I don’t know any of them, so I kept pulling back and thinking, “Does this sound like a single-thirty-something-in-the-twentieth-century or, worse, a-single-sixty-something-in-the-twenty-first-century?” Because while truth isn’t necessary to fiction, verisimilitude is. One “that would never happen” and your story falls apart.
I’d already had a conversation with Mollie about this because Liz was going to end up with an RV at the end of the book, not an airstream, a regular albeit short Class B RV. For me, it was a move in Liz’s arc: at the beginning of the novel the only home she has is her car and she’s alone and at the end she’s stuck with this RV (she didn’t choose it) and she’s adopted a dog. But Mollie said, “Nobody I know would want an RV, that’s for people like you and Dad.” I said, “Lani wrote a book about a young woman who lived in an Airstream and it was great.” She said, “That’s an Airstream. Airstream’s are different.” I decided she was wrong because there are a lot of thirty-somethings out there with RVs, but I wasn’t completely sure and that was the problem, not being sure. For Liz’s kind of life, an RV seemed like a genius idea, but it if was something where a reader would say, “That would never happen . . .”
Of course the tricky part in all of this is that verisimilitude is in the eye of reader. There’s always going to be somebody who doesn’t believe your story. I once got an e-mail from a teacher who’d read Crazy For You that said, “The least you could have done was research teaching.” I e-mailed back and said, “I spent fifteen years in the Beavercreek Public School System; your teaching experience is not necessarily everybody’s teaching experience.” So even the stuff that I know for sure isn’t right for some readers. Still, the idea is to get it in the ballpark of believability for the majority. And I really don’t know if Liz was, if any of the characters were, or if they weren’t being seen through some kind of time warp, and they were people from the eighties transported to the teens. Last century fiction. It’s a problem.
Which is why dark fairy tales appeal to me now. Fantasy. A different world where I don’t have to worry about what’s true in this time, I just have to worry about what’s true about human beings in general. I can cast off the shackles of social verisimilitude and stick to psychological truths.
Although as we’ve brainstormed Fairy Tail Lies, there’s still going to be an RV. It’s a gypsy caravan but it’s an RV. I really want an RV.
But I digress. In the rock-throwing scene, I had to do a first person I-just-got-hit-by-a-rock narrative. I researched concussions, trying to find the sweet spot between truly-injured and quick-recovery and then did a kind of stream-of-consciousness thing which is when Lani put a note in the manuscript that said something like “NOW I like her.” But I kept going back to it, wondering if I’d gotten the concussion right, and especially wondering if I’d gotten the thirty-something-single-woman-with-a-concussion-in-the-twenty-first-century right. This writing gig is not for wimps.
So now I’m curious. Here’s Liz getting hit on the head with a rock. How’s the verisimilitude on a scale of one to ten, ten being spot on and one being “You really are old and out of touch, aren’t you?”
* * * * *
Molly followed me out a minute later. “What happened?”
“I toyed.”
“With Vince?” She grinned. “I’m sorry I missed that.”
“I barely escaped with my virtue,” I said and started to walk home.
Molly followed behind me, laughing at the idea of my virtue. I told her we had to walk since if Vince picked us up for DUI, I’d have to trade sex for a-get-out-of-jail-free card instead of the T-shirt. And I really wanted that shirt.
“That’s not all you want,” she said, and held out her hand. “Give me your phone.”
I was too tired to argue so I handed it over, wondering who the hell she was going to drunk dial with my caller ID, but wanting to get home and fall into bed more than I wanted to know who was going to be yelling at me the next day. She tapped on it for a minute or so as we walked, and she then handed it back.
“Vince’s number is in there now, in your favorites. You get lonely later, give him a call. I’m pretty sure he’ll deliver to the house.”
I almost considered it, just to see Vince’s face when he saw all the bears in my old bedroom, but I said, “No, thanks, leaving tomorrow, no complications.”
She laughed, but when we reached the sidewalk to front of my mother’s little ranch house, she stopped.
“I’m so glad you’re home, Lizzie,” she said, and even with a couple of beers in her, she sounded sober about that. “When you left . . . it hasn’t been right since.”
“I’m not staying,” I said, but she hugged me anyway.
“Just . . . come back again,” she said, and then she let go and went off down the walk to her own bed three houses down.
I thought about going with her to make sure she was all right, but instead I watched her until she turned down her own path to the porch, and when I heard her front door close, I headed for my own bed.
But when I was halfway down the walk, something moved in the shadows beside the house, next to the bedroom windows, so I stopped. Burney didn’t have much of a peeping Tom problem when I was there last, but it could have changed.
Then I remembered it was Burney. Of course it hadn’t changed. I took another step and then something definitely moved in the dark at the side of the house. It was just a shape in the shadows, but it was there.
“Hey!” I said, and started toward it, and something came winging out of the dark and landed in the dirt beside the walk. “Hey!” I yelled and bent over to see what it was, and about the time I registered that it was a rock from my mother’s rock garden, something smacked me hard on the temple and the lights went out.
CHAPTER
When I came to, it was still dark, the grass was cool, and all I could think of was, I knew this town was going to kill me someday.
After that, I had a hard time concentrating—Somebody threw a rock at me? Really? Son of a bitch—and time passed while I tried to figure out what to do. I couldn’t spend the rest of my life in the grass. The neighbors would notice and my mother would be disappointed. I definitely had to sit up.
I sat up slowly and felt my stomach lurch.
Nausea. That was a bad sign.
I put my hand up to my throbbing temple and my fingers came away wet.
Blood. Another bad sign.
I lay back down in the grass. If people were trying to kill me, they’d just have to come and get me, I was in no shape to go find them.
I should probably find somebody for help, though. Because if I didn’t, I’d still be in the grass when the sun came up and the neighbors would see and my mother would be disappointed.
My head spun for awhile and I tried to think of who to call. Not the neighbors because my mother would be so—
My head really hurt.
I felt around in the grass until I found my purse. It was harder because I couldn’t sit up. Sitting up seemed like something I might do later in life, like belly dancing or learning the trapeze.
Somebody hit you with a rock, a voice said. Call for help, you idiot.
The voice was inside my head, which was disconcerting because it certainly wasn’t my voice, I would never call for help. People call me for help, I do not call them. I do not need help, I rescue myself.
Of course not being able to sit up was going to make that harder. If I didn’t get help, I was still going to be in the grass when the sun came up and the neighbors would see and my mother would be disappointed.
I had my purse in my hand. I fumbled inside it and found my cellphone and punched at the screen until I managed to find the “Favorites” list.
I could call my mother, she was only about twenty feet away, but she’d be so disappointed. I could call Molly and she’d come get me, but then M.L. would know and yell at my mother because I was such an embarassment to the family, and my mother would be so disappointed. I could call Cash—no, I could not call Cash. Mac would come get me. Good old Mac. I stared at the phone screen, trying to remember why I’d want to call Mac. Then I saw Vince’s name.
I punched my finger at his name. It took a couple of tries. My head hurt. I listened to the phone whirr as I stared up at the stars. They appeared to be moving.
Somebody said, “Hello,” and it took me a minute to remember I was on the phone.
“Hello,” I said.
“Liz?”
“Wow. You can recognize my voice?”
“No, I can read my phone screen.”
“Oh.” That was vaguely disappointing. It shouldn’t have been disappointing. It wasn’t as if I expected him to remember my voice. But it would have been kind of nice–
“Liz? Are you there?”
“I think somebody hit me with a rock.”
“What?”
“I think somebody hit me with a rock.”
“Where are you?”
He was so damn calm. If somebody called me and said, “I think somebody hit me with a rock,” I’d be more animated. I’d say, “Oh, my GOD, A ROCK?” And then–
“Liz?”
“I’m on the front lawn.”
“You’re at your mom’s house?”
“Yes.”
“I’m on my way.”
His phone clicked off, and I went back to watching the stars swirl around. I kept expecting them to stop because I was getting better, but they just kept going. So I thought about Lavender, doing all the right things and clearly a suitable bride for Cash; and Cash leaning close in the bar, looking so damn good; and that kiss with Vince the cop that was also damn good, verging on great, although that could have been the alcohol talking. And then he’d recognized my voice. No, wait, he hadn’t, I’d just wanted him to recognize my voice, but for why? I asked myself. I was still pondering that when a shadow loomed over me and the stars went away.
“If you’re here to kill me,” I said, “a cop is on the way.”
“That would be me,” Vince said. “Can you sit up?”
“Sure,” I said, and sat up, and when he held out his hand, I took it and let him pull me to my feet. “Just like this morning,” I said and threw up all over the lawn.
“Hospital,” he said, and then I was sitting in his jeep, so very tired, and I tried to sleep, but he kept saying, “Liz!” in this sharp, cop voice, and once when I tried to sleep anyway, he even grabbed my shoulder and said, “Stay with me!”
“Where else am I gonna go?” I said. “I’m in your car.”
And then I saw the hospital sign, and after that, I really do not remember.
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183 Comments to 'Verisimilitude, That Bitch'
On July 20, 2012 at 2:23 pm Jennifer said...
As a 30something, I see nothing wrong with this. I also see nothing wrong with Liz ending up with an RV. I actually kinda like the idea, and periodically wonder about the feasibility of getting ahold of my parents’ long-abandoned-as-storage RV and fixing it up. Okay, so liking an RV depends on personality and would best appeal to a roamer rather than someone who wants to settle down, but that sounds fine to me in this plot context.
I am willing to volunteer myself as a judge of these things, should you for some odd reason ever want to ask. Though since I don’t exactly want to settle down with a home and two children, I am not exactly a typical audience member either
On July 20, 2012 at 2:25 pm Jennifer said...
I also forgot to mention that FREE would be a factor in getting an RV as well. One just handed to me? Oh hell yeah. Especially if Liz is in some kind of need of it (lemme guess: her car dies?) too.
On July 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm Jenny said...
Yeah, her car died but she doesn’t get the RV for free. She ends up in debt because of it. It was a long story (g).
On July 20, 2012 at 8:22 pm Thea said...
Makes me so sad, “It was a long story.” (sniff) Really like Liz, I don’t care what your first readers say. Holds together for me.
Oh, well. I’ll always have Andie and North. Thank you for them.
On July 21, 2012 at 7:19 pm Cyndi Black said...
Dear Jenny,
I was your student at Maui writers conference in 2005. At the time you said you hadn’t been able to write since menopause. I remember thinking that you should write characters your own age now. Think Meryl Streep in It’s Complicated. Your fans have grown up with you, I’m 54 now and I don’t want to hear about heavy breathing. Make it smart, make it funny, make it Crusie.
As far as screenwriting, I went back to school and studied at UCLA, and it’s by far the hardest thing I’ve done in my entire life. I had a conversation with Christopher Vogler who wrote the Writer’s Journey, and he told me if I was going to screenwrite, I would have to grow a new brain. I thought he was joking, but it was the absolute truth. My scripts have all placed in the high ranks of the good contests but I have not sold anything.
Please don’t give up novel writing, just ignore the marketing wisdom that says we have to write for the 30 to 40-year-olds. You’re having trouble writing that because that’s not who you are now.
Please give us an irascible, confident older woman and your fans will be overjoyed!
As far as losing your eyesight I have tennis elbow now and can’t type. I bought an iPad and I dictate,you’ll get used to it. You’ll just have to hire an assistant to type it.
With aloha,
On July 28, 2012 at 8:53 pm Shoshana said...
I’m technically still a 20-something but agree 100% with Cyndi on the whole “we fans would be overjoyed if you wrote an irascible, confident older woman”!
Heck, with all the media around these days saying, “hurry up and live your life now ’cause once you hit 40 it’s all over, sucker,” it would be WONDERFUL to have a great older Crusie heroine to be able to point to and say “nonsense, see this here? I’m going to age with an attitude like THAT and have a blast, so take that, Ms. Teen Model and ‘what will you do now your career is finished at 30′ reporters!”
You can definitely write older protagonists and still sell to younger readers. We don’t have to already have personal experience to empathize and enjoy.
Just saying.
On August 12, 2012 at 12:53 pm PG said...
What Shoshana said. I loved “Fast Women” when it first came out even though I had almost no life experience to connect to it (I think at that time I was a virgin, had kissed exactly one guy and never held a full-time job with benefits). I love it even more, now that I do. People who love to read are happy to grow into the books they love.
On July 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm Denisetwin said...
I’m a forty something and married, but I think it is spot on for someone as independent as you’ve written Liz. Letting someone she’s just met and going to leave the next day see her broken and needing assistance vs letting someone that is already “stuck” in her life.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm Terri Osburn said...
I don’t qualify as a 30-something anymore since I hit 40 nearly 7 months ago, but this sounds spot on to me. I’ve hit my head and felt that nausea. And seen things spin in front of me. No “that couldn’t happen” for me here.
On July 21, 2012 at 2:52 pm inkgrrl said...
I love it, and it’s beautifully done. One small quibble: remembering that she’s been hit with a rock immediately upon regaining consciousness. I’ve had a number of concussions and even been knocked out a few times (surprise, right?) and have never had that much clarity as soon as my eyes opened. Only a matter of moving “Somebody threw a rock at me? Really? Son of a bitch” down a few lines, so the reader gets it after she’s been lying on the grass and felt blood, rather than before.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm McB said...
I just thunk a thought. It seems to me that part of the reason you, Lani and whomever else was having trouble liking Liz might have had something to do with her attitude towards Burney. But with this scene, at least some of Liz’s attitude is validated so now it’s okay to like her.
Although, I have to say that I liked Liz from the get-go. I’ve been where she is. Not the escaping from a small town part, but the part where everyone assumes that you are the one with the problem. So I’ve been rooting for her all along.
Anyway, an RV might not be right for every 30-something out there, but this is Liz. Liz is a wandering soul, right? So the RV fits her. It’s not like she’s throwing over her suburban white picket fence home to hit the road. From that perspective her age isn’t relevant.
You’ve referred to Welcome To Temptation a few times when talking about the Liz books, or more accurately you’ve talked about the similar attitudes towards small towns. And you said something once about Sophie learning to love Temptation. But what I took away from that book is how Sophie and her family shook up the town. I think it was less Sophie learning to embrace small towns, and more one small town learning to accept the Dempseys.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:17 pm oneoftheotherjennifers said...
I love this. It’s great, and it seems real to me at 43.
RVs are only for rich people these days, though, unless you plan to just park them. My aunt and uncle retired about ten years ago, sold their house and bought an RV. They loved it, but after a couple of years the gas was killing them. They had to just settle in at various parks for months at a time to make it work financially- they could afford the $35/night parking spot rental, but not that and gas, too. Eventually they broke down and bought a house in 2010, because the mortgage and upkeep on a $180K house was about half the cost of the RV lot rental, gas, repairs, etc.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm Deborah Blake said...
I think this was spot on. SPOT ON.
And I take back everything I said yesterday about how it was okay for you not to write this story. Because now I really, really want to read it. Damn it.
Also, I think the RV is fine. And my current WIP has a character who lives in an Airstream. But it’s also a fantasy, so that’s okay. (And a fairy tale, come to think of it.)
On July 20, 2012 at 7:19 pm Jennifer said...
Yeah, I still want to read it too. And I LIKE first person, darn it.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm RainyWeather said...
Not being a 30-something I can’t help with the verisimilitude part, but THANK YOU for posting this. I completely support your decision to let go of this book, but I so enjoyed the car scene you posted awhile ago and since you and your readers all seemed to agree “it gets good once/when she gets hit with the rock,” I kept wishing I could read the rock scene. And, here it is! Thank you.
I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially “the neighbors would see and my mother would be disappointed.”
On July 20, 2012 at 3:25 pm Marijane Diodati said...
I may be completely out of touch because I am in my 50′sthoughts but where else is someone of any age going to live that would be hers. Not an apartment, not someone’s basement, not, in this case, with her mother so I think it works. Please publish this book. I like what I have seen.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:28 pm Kate George said...
Okay, I’m too old to be a good judge of this, but I like the scene. And I’m one of the people that gets called on when people need help, but I recently sliced open my arm and had to call someone – I had to tell myself that I needed to get help. My normal reaction would be to try and take myself to the hospital. Hmm, I’m kind of off topic. About seven years ago I got thrown from a horse and knocked unconscious. What I remembered when I woke up was the thirty seconds before I left the horse’s back. In fact I still don’t remember the fall or the impact. Just waking up with a vague, dreamlike memory of the moments before.
The world spun and my thought processes kind of went sideways. I find Liz’s scene to be totally believable. And I always liked Liz as well, but I’m another one who lives in a world where I think I’m doing just fine and everyone around me thinks I’m a total screw up. Story of my life. Liz can come hang out with me for a while. I could use a kindred spirit.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm Sam said...
I don’t claim to speak for all 30-somethings, but I think an RV would be awesome. Unusual, but not so much that I’d question it while reading.
In the sample scene, the phone bits stuck out a little. A cell phone has been my only phone for my entire adult life, and I almost never call anyone who has a landline and no caller ID. I’d take it for granted that the person I called would know who was calling. (Then again, I’ve never been hit by a rock.)
I was a little confused by the phone whirring because I thought it was buzzing or vibrating, as though it were on silent mode. After a moment, I realized that the whirring was the sound of the call being connected. This might just be me.
I’ve also never seen the phone book on a cell phone referred to as “favorites.” That reminded me of a web browser. Then again, I don’t have a smart phone, so maybe “favorites” is standard. My phone refers to saved numbers as contacts.
Hope that helps!
On July 20, 2012 at 11:00 pm McB said...
On my iPhone, I have the regular “Contacts” list, which is the complete phone book; but I also have a “Favorites” list, which is where you would put a number you might want to find quickly, or call frequently.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:50 am Merry said...
Oh, fine, now I’m left wondering where I am, list-wise
On July 22, 2012 at 12:24 am Redwood Kim said...
It’s on my Android phone, too. In fact, it’s on the Home screen.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:43 pm Kate George said...
Oh, I forgot. I don’t think an RV is a problem – some thirtyish people I’ve know have lived in Volkswagen Vans! But I kind of see her in something a little funkier than your normal square van.
I’ve always wished Gypsy caravans came in a RV form with engine etc.. Not because I’m partial to driving cars, but because horses are very impractical on the high way. And you can’t get very far in a day. Any one with a car could catch up with me in a heartbeat in a horse drawn thing. But how great to have a round topped, fabulously painted, wooden RV with pots and bells hanging off the sides. (I know, totally impractical.)
On July 21, 2012 at 1:03 pm Deborah Blake said...
I want one of those too, Kate!
On July 21, 2012 at 3:18 pm lee said...
I just want the pony. I’d park the caravan somewhere, and live in that, and have a pony!!
On July 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm Lee said...
Maybe a teardrop trailer? See this by Rachael Herron http://www.yarnagogo.com/blog/2012/07/camping-.html
Or if the car has died, one of those pickups converted
into trailer in the bed?
On July 20, 2012 at 3:44 pm Kate George said...
I meant normal square RV. Oh for a brain that is young!
On July 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm Suzann Ellingsworth said...
Trust yourself and trust your story. So what if your character may not reflect a typical 30-something in this century. What the h— constitutes a typical 30-something in this century? Your characters are wondrously more and deeper than an age, an era, and a presumed attitude. Human behavior does not change. That’s why your readers’ age range is from teens to seniors, female and male. As for the RV, the advice given is also stereotypical and in this economy, wrong. RVs can be travel/lifestyle vehicles and increasingly may be affordable homes for all age ranges. And everything in-between. If an RV is right for your character and story, then an RV is right. There’s too much committee-thinking in the publishing industry–don’t fall to it in the writing process. You’re among the best, most insightful, funny, and above all, real in what you do and have published. You don’t need a committee to influence your story. Just write it, populate it with your always memorable, relateable characters, and call it good, because if you wrote it, it will be.
I’m a writer, too, (as Ledbetter) and about your age. I, too, question the pull-off re younger characters. To paraphrase Hamlet, the story is the thing. Just write the damned thing as you envisioned and imagine it.
On July 20, 2012 at 7:20 pm Jennifer said...
In my (irritating) experience, most 30-somethings are married off by now, so being single at all at this age is already atypical and living by your own standards.
On July 30, 2012 at 3:58 pm CrankyOtter said...
In my last month of being 30, just hung out with a bunch of ladies at RWA and there are plenty of not marrieds in my generation and the previous 10 year age group. Sure, more are married by 40, but I wouldn’t call being single odd.
We also got a tour riding around in a cool van RV owned by an early 40 something who has been married just a couple years. The ladies who don’t camp we’re not as enthused, but some of us (and some military guys) thought it was awesome.
I didn’t see anything in that excerpt that dated her. I’d second the bit about not quite remembering getting hit with a rock, so maybe she wakes up with the going rock inor near her hand and infers. There can be a lucid period before you get worse. The repetitive thoughts and forgetting about an action/ conversation in the middle of it are very realistic. Also, head wounds bleed like the devil. You didn’t get specific, and don’t have to, but her shirt will never be the same.
On July 30, 2012 at 4:00 pm CrankyOtter said...
Last month in my thirties, that is.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm Suzanne said...
I think the scene worked well. My only comment might be for her to think of her phone earlier. For most younger people the phone is almost an appendage and they would want it near them in a time of crisis, as security almost, whether they call or text or not, but I think what you did worked fine because she was dazed from being hit by a rock.
On July 22, 2012 at 1:43 am Rosa said...
and she wouldn’t ask about her voice being recognized – she’d just assume whoever’s on the line knows who she is because all phones have caller ID because they are all cell phones/smart phones.
As the last 30something on the planet with a land line, I have this problem all the time. People do not identify themselves, they expect you know who they are.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:55 pm merry said...
10. And a single woman in her thirties wanting (and getting) an RV? Oh, yeah. Her hometown’s not much of a home. She travels for work and stays awhile when she does. Why wouldn’t she want to take a home with her? No motel rooms, privacy…and she could take Veronica with her everywhere. If she ends up with Veronica, that is. An RV is perfect for Liz.
On July 20, 2012 at 3:56 pm Olga Godim said...
I can’t tell you how young people feel today; alas I’m not one of them, but I can tell you that the excerpt about Liz being hit by a rock is among the best pieces of writing I ever read. Hilarious! A typical Crusie.
BTW: I write fantasy for the same reason you want to write it: no research necessary. It’s my world, I make the rules. Well, not as simple actually, but close enough.
On July 20, 2012 at 4:02 pm robena grant said...
Wow! What a treat. I love it! But I still think you should write it in third. Some really good hot sex scenes are looming on the horizon. ; ) And I know you don’t want to do those in first person. And the RV…the actor, Matthew Mc (however he spells his name) is wealthy and he lived in an RV in Malibu for a long time. I think it would be cool.
I’m your age (okay, so I’m a whole year older but who’s counting) the only places I thought sounded more like one from my generation, were “my virtue” and “son of a bitch.” The first I’m not sure what I’d use instead, maybe just “my virginity.” Young people today are more direct. In the second case, WTF immediately came to mind. And the concussion thing, I think you nailed that.
Please, please, please don’t give up on Liz.
On July 21, 2012 at 9:26 am Briana Richardson said...
Oh, joking with friends, I’ve used & heard the virtue thing. (I’m single & 36, so the Liz peer)
On July 20, 2012 at 4:11 pm Toni said...
I’m a late 30-something. personally I don’t want an RV, but I don’t begrudge anyone who might. As far as the scene goes, there is one thing that would bother me: when Vince sees her name on the screen. That only works if he’s programed her number into his phone. Unless you’ve said earlier that he’s done this, it would bug me. I’d be thinking why / how about Vince having her number in his phone instead of paying attention to Liz.
otherwise, I think it is great.
On July 20, 2012 at 5:05 pm Sharon S. said...
Why does no one write about people our age? I’d love to read a story about love for the 60+. It gives me hope. I know the “world” is for the young, but hell, we’ve still got a lot of life in us! Right? I think Liz would rock as a 60-something, and the RV too!
On July 20, 2012 at 5:20 pm oneoftheotherjennifers said...
I picked up Julie and Romeo by Jeanne Ray at a rummage sale a few months ago, and it is a fun, sweet read. It’s from 2003 and it looks like you can get it used on Amazon for a penny. Don’t let the title turn you away, the book is great.
On July 20, 2012 at 6:13 pm Strop said...
Seconded. There’s also a sequel ‘Julie and Romeo Get Lucky’, ‘Step Ball Change’ and her latest, ‘Calling Invisible Women’. All lovely fun reads.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:32 pm colognegrrl said...
Seems it’s going to be re-published next year!
On July 20, 2012 at 6:14 pm Micki said...
I had a little early-Crusie marathon a couple of weeks ago, and one of the books featured an older lady falling in love with the hero’s grumpy boss (and vice versa). “Trust Me On This.” The woman was a minor character but had a nice large part . . . I remember thinking we needed more books with older heroines in them, too.
On July 21, 2012 at 3:57 am Emily said...
Gwennie (Nadine’s gradma) in Faking It has some hot moments with a possible hitman too. I like Gwennie.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm colognegrrl said...
After writing (and publishing) three novels about young women, my editor suggested I might want to write about people my own age. She said it very tactfully, but I guess it has to do with the very topic Jenny brought up here, namely to write something believable that you’re acquainted with yourself. So I did, and turned to first person, too, and I don’t think I want to go back to the twenty-somethings (although right now, I’m reworking an older manuscript with a younger heroine, and in third, and it’s not as easy as it used to be).
On July 20, 2012 at 5:09 pm Julie said...
Among myself and my group of female friends in our thirties, I think we’ve gotten used to disappointing our mothers and it no longer affects our decision making. To me, that was the only part that didn’t ring true.
RVs work for some people/characters, but they’re widely regarded as an expensive hassle, so for Liz to buy one, you’d have to convince the audience that it’s a practical decision for her (for reasons like Merry suggested above, or because it was offered to her in trade for her broken car, or it was literally the only way out of town) or that she really loves it, no matter how impractical it is. For her to get “stuck” with one AND go into debt over it feels contrived.
On July 20, 2012 at 7:22 pm Jennifer said...
Well, I make my decisions even though my mom is disappointed, but I still feel bad about it. And get a lot of shit for it. But my shrink says we’re codependent, so that’s why. Different situation from having an alcoholic mom.
That is a good point about going in debt over the RV. Even the folks I know with an RV that camp a lot and actually use theirs are debating getting rid of it–but they have a house and that’s not their main lifestyle either.
On July 20, 2012 at 5:13 pm Susan J Berger said...
Now I know you are marking time. That you even QUESTION “would this be right for a thirty something woman in the twentieth century” and that so many people answered “Well I’m not in my thirties, do I can’t tell.”
Come on guys!!! Love is love. How we express it differs by our personalities. Our Mores change from century to century, but not us. If you remember what it felt like, you know love. And if you are as wonderful a writer as Jen Crusie, then you can make us feel it.
What I am seeing here are chronologically gifted humans forgetting that they are the same person they were in their twenties with a deeper store of memories to draw on.
Jen, I am working on a story about two women in their sixties who travel back to 1969 and find love. I had a letter from an editor saying “Before we talk contract I need you to fix the story arc between two of the characters.” I started in all enthusiasm, added a new obstructional character and then…. I wrote a post mentioning the moon landing in 1969. I spent three hours researching popular designers in 1969. I was playing with parts of the story that didn’t need my attention instead of dealing with fixing the arc.
It feels like you might be doing the same thing. I love Liz.
I thank you for your last two posts. I am praying that they find a cure before you need it. And that this is the beginning of your climb out of the Valley of the Shadow.
On July 20, 2012 at 5:14 pm Carol said...
I work with a lot of 30-somethings, and she’s in the ballpark there, but what I really identified with was the “people call me for help” thing, because that’s me, and my recent sprained ankle had me relying on the kindness of husband, friends, and complete strangers to degree with which I was *very* uncomfortable. Really tough to be shoved out of my comfort zone to that degree.
On July 20, 2012 at 5:29 pm Beth E. (Invsible Betty) said...
I was a 30-something when I got hit by a rock, well, okay, a car windshield, and your description seems right on target. In addition to what you’ve described for Liz, I also remember feeling really cold – shock I guess. Does Liz wind up with stitches? I ended up with several, along with an attractive shaved patch.
On July 20, 2012 at 6:29 pm Micki said...
I’m 43, and I have a grudging relationship with my cell phone (which isn’t a smart phone), so I may be wrong. But the part about putting Vince’s phone number in felt a little funny. *I* don’t know how to do it, but is there an easier way? Like importing it directly? A minute seems too long, even if you did it *my* way which would be: look up number on my phone, pull up friend’s address book, register the number my manually inputting it. Save.
A very little thing.
If the desire for an RV comes from character, then go with it. I’ve wanted an earth oven and a straw bale house for ages and ages, and I really feel out of step with my contemporaries, but . . . there you go. That’s me. Liz is a travellin’ kind of girl.
Being out of the US culture loop, I have no idea what the distinction between an RV and an Airstream is, but names are important. Liz likes diners, so maybe one of those dinky little ’30s sort of “mobile homes” (I’m thinking that famous Mickey Mouse/Minnie Mouse bubble trailer sort of thing) would be perfect for her. Retro to satisfy her need for roots, but on wheels to satisfy her need for an escape route. The first novel is really the first act — the RV (or whatever you choose to call it — gypsy wagon?) is one step towards re-establishing her roots, but shows that she’s not quite ready to make the full commitment.
I really, really like Liz, what I’ve seen of her. The hit-on-the-head part seemed well done — not hallucinatory really, but nicely dazed. Looking something up on the cell phone rather than calling 911 sounds exactly like something I’d do! If I had a smart phone, I might wiki concussions because I’m a geek that way (-:.
Um . . . if she got hit on the head by a rock sooner, that would give her more motivation to stay in town and figure out why someone is throwing rocks at her . . . . I realize then you have to deal with the rock-thrower’s motivation. You are absolutely right. Writing is not for wimps.
On July 20, 2012 at 8:23 pm Jenny said...
The silvery bubble thing is an Airstream, and you need a car to pull it.
On July 21, 2012 at 8:27 am Micki said...
Oh! OK. But I have to say, the Airstream would be cooler, and it’d have the added benefit that if one needed to run, one could leave it behind like a lizard’s tail. Oh, wait. That’s not what you are going for LOL! You need something that traps her in B-town longer (-:. RV it is.
On July 20, 2012 at 6:52 pm Louise said...
I love it. Love the scene! If Molly, Lani and Jen think the story starts with the rock, then why can’t it? It immediately grabs the reader. Don’t shelve a perfectly wonderful story that millions are dying. And these days a 30 year old can do whatever she damn well pleases as long as it’s within the law and she doesn’t hurt anyone.
On July 20, 2012 at 6:54 pm Louise said...
I got so caught up I left out —- that so many are dying to READ
On July 20, 2012 at 6:55 pm Sara said...
I’m 24 and I love it (and all the other scenes you’ve posted, and find Liz totally likable in all of them). I also like the “my virtue” that was challenged earlier, and the delay in reaching for the phone–in the first, she’s being flippant so it doesn’t matter if it’s a dated saying because that just emphasizes the sarcasm; in the second, she’d only reach for the phone if she was in the habit of calling for help, so if she’s going to question her own decision to call then it has to be a delayed reaction that comes down the line in the processing-the-situation process.
Really looking forward to however this turns out!
On July 20, 2012 at 7:06 pm Michelle said...
I give it a solid 9. I’m 42 and married, and am around a lot of single 30 somethings and think I’m in touch. The RV isn’t an issue. The fact that she uses the word virtue is funny and something I laughed out loud at. As far as disappointing her mother, that rings true. In our family, my sister and I refer to it as the “d” word – the word too awful to be spoken out loud. My sister is always disappointing my parents but seeking their approval and I’m always trying not to disappoint. So there you go. Mollie has had a few drinks, so typing someone’s number into a phone could take a minute or so. It would take me that long. Solid 9 to me.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:47 pm colognegrrl said...
Also, it’s Mollie dealing with a phone which is not hers so it might take her a moment to get through the menu.
On July 20, 2012 at 7:34 pm Rebecca Zanetti said...
I’d really like to read more.
On July 20, 2012 at 7:52 pm Kieran said...
I want to read this story so bad!!! I love Liz. She’s a riot.
On July 20, 2012 at 8:10 pm Evelyn said...
I’m mid twenties and I don’t see a problem with the way that’s written or if Liz wants an RV. I actually really wanted to read a book in first person by you because you have such a good grasp of the craft of writing, it would be interesting to see how you approached it. So far, I’m getting a bit of a Dashiell Hammett. The only thing about first person is that when people are thinking to themselves, there is usually a bit of angst and uncertainty, unless they are completely in denial. Otherwise, why are they talking to themselves? My point being is that why is she keeping an RV if she doesn’t want a home and has to pay for it? Wouldn’t she address these issues to herself?
Also, you could consider the current hipster generation. She could be either pre-cursor to that or environmentally-aware. There is a huge reuse movement going on.
Lastly, if you haven’t seen it, there was a short-lived Fox show called Wonderfalls, where the heroine is a bit reminiscent of Liz. She lives in an RV and doesn’t want anything to do with her family either, except that she learns to understand them. It’s a good show. Very whimsical. Talking inanimate objects.
On July 21, 2012 at 2:58 am Sure Thing said...
Moving from more stuff to less is a big theme in my thirty-something life. I can imagine that moving from impermanence to something a little more fixed would be an adequate growth arc. I don’t know that an Airstream would be more acceptable than an RV. The RV would probably have something to recommend it, maybe double-glazed windows and a small electricity generator that’s not solar but uses wind as she drives it. Do we have a word for wind power like how we say solar power and not sun power? Also solar would be too probable, wind is a bit more “out there.”
I’d guess she or Mollie makes some crack about carrying her house like a snail or tortoise? Just wondering.
The story doesn’t flow for you and that’s why you shelved it (heh, see what I did there?) BUT, there are such gems. Maybe you can pull a Garry Marshall and use stuff in something else. For those who don’t know, the sorbet scene in Princess Diaries is something he never used in Pretty Woman, *and* he has an “egg slice through a harp” bit on reserve.
Somehow, I’m not as broken up as I thought I’d be if you wrote no more. You’re here, on ReFab and are keeping us in the loop. Way better than some authors who’ve just gone silent (Elizabeth Lowell message boards, anyone? What happened to the community? The Donovan chorus?)
I also recently read Neil Gaiman’s blog post in which he tells a reader “George RR Martin is not your bitch.” I get it. I’ll moan from time to time, but that’s what libraries are for, they easily get me to shush.
I’ll make do -insert morose long-suffering sigh here. And you? You will be fine.
On July 21, 2012 at 3:02 am Sure Thing said...
I nested my comment by mistake. Sorry.
On July 24, 2012 at 1:40 pm Julie said...
I thought of Wonderfalls, too, especially since I had just finished watching it again. Such a shame it was cancelled.
On July 20, 2012 at 8:13 pm Evelyn said...
Also, for those looking for a great book with an older heroine, Hilma Wolitzer has a new one out called, “An Available Man.” Here is an interview with her from Huffington Post (really interesting to the writers).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-ollivier/hilma-wolitzer-an-available-man-_b_1280386.html
On July 20, 2012 at 8:37 pm toni said...
(a) I cracked up, out loud, 4 times. FOUR. Four. When I have too damned many things that were irritating today, that was a joy.
(b) It doesn’t matter if most 30-somethings would want an RV. What matters is if you’ve made Liz individual enough so that we buy that SHE wants an RV. That’s it. (There is not one universal standard for 30 year olds. You know this.)
(c) I CRACKED UP FOUR TIMES.
(d) Why can’t the story start there? I know you’d have to bob and weave and pull some of the information forward, but if I read that as an opening scene, I’d be sold on the book, right there.
(e) I know, you’ve already decided not to write it. But it could happen later.
On July 20, 2012 at 8:50 pm Zuzu said...
Airstream trailers are more popular and common, but the company did make RVs from 1974 on, if lack of a car is the only thing keeping Liz from acquiring one. I agree with Mollie – “Airstream” and “RV” are two very different vibes. See the TV series “Wonderfalls” if you need any further evidence.
On July 22, 2012 at 12:32 am Redwood Kim said...
Doesn’t Liz have a Wonderfalls hoodie? I think she was wearing it in one of the snippets we were given. I remember it because I hadn’t ever seen it, and I had to dig to remember what it was.
On July 22, 2012 at 2:48 am Jenny said...
Yep, she does. I have one, too, somewhere. It was promotional thing, given away when the series first started.
On July 20, 2012 at 9:07 pm Leigh said...
I loved that scene.
On July 20, 2012 at 9:07 pm Leigh said...
Also, I agree with what Toni said. I found myself thinking…maybe she started the book in the wrong place….
On July 20, 2012 at 9:08 pm katyL said...
I’m going to preface by saying I’ve got an eye infection blurring my vision, so I may have missed something. But why is it that you couldn’t open the book closer to the rock throwing?
This works for me. And makes me wish for more books–Liz or not. No problem here with the RV either. Don’t think it has as much to do with what’s popular with the age group as how it makes sense to the character. That’s the part that would matter to me. The how and why.
I really liked Maybe This Time and thought the storyline was a bit of a departure while still having that Crusie magic. Loved the idea of another book following up with the kids. Also because I really wanted to see how the guy stuck in the couch got on later. Wondering if writing books with a fantasy element would qualify as less bound to reality and ergo feel the same as writing the fairy tales.
And I understand the second guessing. I have to watch out for that myself, though, when I’m writing because it’s a trap for me that shuts down the juice. Somehow, it triggers my editing brain and I stall. You’re right, writing is hard work. Fun, but work nonetheless:)
On July 20, 2012 at 9:31 pm Evelyn said...
Get better soon!
On July 21, 2012 at 4:40 pm katyL said...
Thanks so much, Evelyn:)
On July 20, 2012 at 9:18 pm Jo Vandewall said...
Something I read just recently: One sign of a concussion is repeating yourself, so the repetition of her mother being disappointed is spot on. (Could also be quite funny if she starts repeating that out loud at the hospital.)
On July 20, 2012 at 9:25 pm Kelly S said...
I’m 42. The scene works for me, except by the 3rd time she’s rambling about being seen by the neighbors and a disappointment to her mother, I skipped over it. Also, I want to rent an RV to travel to the west coast from MI with our cats. Not sure if they’ll like it or not though, so I shorter trip first as a test run. I do hope the book gets published, well, actually all 4 in the series, but I understand if you choose not to.
On July 20, 2012 at 10:46 pm toni said...
oh, but it was the repetition that cracked me up.
Especially since what she’s focused on is her mom being disappointed instead of the bleeding and potential dying.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:51 pm colognegrrl said...
…and there might be some hurting, too!
On July 21, 2012 at 3:00 pm inkgrrl said...
And that’s pretty much how it works when you’re concussed. Take drunken teenage straight-A student freaking out about somebody noticing her dad’s scotch is a different color and telling everybody about it and you’ve got concussed.
On July 20, 2012 at 9:53 pm Mary Stella said...
I’m not 30-something but I know a lot of people who are RVers either full time or part-time. The full timers are retired. The part-timers ages start in the 40s.
Liz is different. If she’s a person who doesn’t want to put down roots, an RV would be a practical alternative. There’s a reason some people still call them mobile homes.
Now to the scene. Maybe I missed something but Molly just put Vince’s number in Liz’s phone. So, when she calls Vince, unless he already has her number under her name in his phone, his call screen is only going to show her number, not her name.
Being a cop he might know the area code and make it a good guess.
I think she’s also sometimes a little too sharp for someone who has a fuzzy head and a concussion.
On July 20, 2012 at 9:56 pm Mary Stella said...
Adding onto my own musing comment . . .
Having a concussion doesn’t mean Liz can’t still be funny — or at least, in her fuzzy, injured way, she can think she’s funny as all get out. I’ve been known to crack myself up with witty observations and comments before and after surgery or other medical procedures. Nothing like pharmaceuticals to ramp up the humor, at least in my own impaired mind.
On July 21, 2012 at 3:02 pm inkgrrl said...
Or he might have her number. Or they both might have caller ID enabled?
On July 20, 2012 at 9:55 pm Danielle said...
Ok, so I didn’t read the excerpt and I’m not reading any of the comments because I still have faith that you’ll salvage this book and I don’t want any spoilers (I’ve kind of been scrolling and singsonging LA LA LA, I’M NOT LISTENING for a few weeks now, every time I see “Liz” mentioned).
But, I just had to say: who said all heroines have to be 30-somethings? I am a 30-something and I find it supremely refreshing to read about non-30-something, snarky-funny and strong/talented/brilliant women. I can’t remember how old Andie was, but I LOVED HER! (And Agnes, too.) She gave me hope that non-30-something women still have attitude. I am so annoyed that all the books I’ve read featuring middle-aged women seem to revolve around how they “sacrificed” their best years looking after their children and husbands and now don’t know who they are anymore and all of the sudden find themselves alone and their own mothers are driving them insa….zzzzzzzzzzz.
Not every woman follows that prescribed path and has kids in her 20′s. Some of us choose not to have them at all and it’s interesting to see what OUR lives might be like in 10 or 20 years. (I’m guessing not as barren and lonely as many would have us believe, but it would be nice if we could get more affirmation from our fiction).
Anyway, rant over. What I’m saying is: don’t worry about it. If your character wants to say/do something, let her say/do it. Adjust her age accordingly.
PS: I would totally dig an RV. I actually want to make my own. So there.
On July 20, 2012 at 10:03 pm Jessie said...
Okay. I am way off 30 – actually 64. But the only people I know who want an RV are retirees – particularly snowbirds and people with family or pets (people who have show animals or participate in fairs or carnies) all have RV’s. Somehow this does not strike me as Liz’s demographic. Although if it is, go for it. And frankly the allure of staying in an RV park with the next one less then 10 feet from your door and all your neighbors either with toddlers or grey hair seems a little strange to me.
But I loved the scene. What is not to like about Liz. Maybe you could consider the first of this a prologue that shouldn’t be there. And you could re-formate it a short for those of us who lust for it.
On July 20, 2012 at 10:29 pm Ami said...
I think she sounds like a thirty something, even with the whole “virtue” thing, especially if she’s been drinking. Because we all know, or have witnessed, that word phenomenon that accompanies alcohol–words people would never otherwise say are the single most hilarious thing in the world, and a person who has been drinking will fixate and/or repeat. They will also share their observations. Loudly.
The verisimilitude–I have an amazing command of the obvious and would like to say that people are a product of their lives. Liz would be a product of her background, her experiences, so anything Liz does only has to make sense to Liz, and despite her mother’s disapproval or disappointment, Liz wouldn’t need anybody’s permission to do as she chooses.
I think I’ve always had the impression that Liz would be the sort of woman to listen politely while another offered their two cents, but would still do as she wanted.
As for whether you finish her or not, I am going to quote my chocolate wrapper: “Do what feels right.” Chocolate is never wrong.
On July 20, 2012 at 10:52 pm JenniferNennifer said...
This was so fun,thank you. I, for one, would be happy to see all the bits you have already written as blog posts.
I understand you don’t want to work on them any more, and this way you wouldn’t have to do any thing but one post at the end to tell us what finally happened that you didn’t write.
And since I was late and so didn’t post to your last comment – good wishes for things you DO want to do.
On July 20, 2012 at 11:44 pm C. said...
I’m not there yet, but I’m only a few years away from a thirty-something. So, for what it’s worth, Liz works for me.
I’ve been a long time reader of yours and one thing that keeps bringing me back are your heroines. They’re smart, independent women who could honestly give a rip if they fall in line with the status quo. Your heroines were a harbor for me, illustrated through fiction, noting that not all women act just the same or think just the same or like all of the same things. And that was something I needed; something I come back to all of the time.
If I’ve learned anything over the years from amazing books like yours, life experience, and hard won insight into a life that doesn’t always make a ton of sense it’s that what works for one person doesn’t have to work for another and that’s okay, because that isn’t their life. If Liz’s world makes sense with an RV. Cool. I’d read that book.
On July 20, 2012 at 11:44 pm Dayna said...
It’s a great little scene and has all the elements that makes a Crusie fun to read. Liz’s voice seems a little mature for the 30-somethings that I know but then I live in Hollywood. Her voice seems mature for some of the senior citizens I know. My god, I sound like all the older generations that I used to roll my eyes at. Anyhoo, since I’m soon to be 57 on the outside and I’m 12 going on 35 going on 18 on the inside, I can’t really say if it sounds like a 21st century 30something woman. I only know that never at any point in my life did I want an RV. But I do agree that calling Vince was a waaay better thing to do than calling her mother.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:22 am Max Xavier said...
If it helps any, my almost 19 year old wants an RV. The concussion bit is exactly spot on – from the technical stuff to the ramble stuff. I had an extrication victim the other night that rambled for five minutes ( took a while to take the top off) about the poptart in his pocket and some reference to Jimi Hendrix and an eelfish(???) that I didnt quite catch.
On July 21, 2012 at 3:06 pm inkgrrl said...
LOL yes! One time I got seriously conked, when I woke up all I could think about was getting to the people in the other car (my very ex-bf had just run a red light and t-boned the other car at 70+ MPH). Never mind that my neck was dislocated and I couldn’t move the left half of my body, I was hell-bent on seeing who was hurt and making them live. Inappropriate and strangely clear focus often happens in concussion victims. One of the reasons so many of them go unnoticed until something more sinister develops.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:41 am Flo said...
I’m a couple years from entering my 30s, but I picked up a concussion last Sept. I was out for a very short while, came to while my SUV was still rolling after being rear-ended, and I got the (bleep) out of the vehicle, walked to the back of my totaled SUV, looked at the other guy and walked back to pull the keys from the ignition before seeing my phone on the seat where it had been flung from my pocket- it was not my first thought (nor was I immediately aware of my broken arm). Soon as I saw it, I used the phone, though.
I’m past the 10 month mark on the wreck, I still have issues with attention, headaches and fatigue. Oddly, I’m now very jaded about “head wound severe enough to cause unconsciousness, no biggie!” in plots.
I’m still hooked enough to want to see where you take this/how she recovers. A coworker was in a wreck a couple months back, and she’s had headaches 9 weeks past the wreck date. I am friends with someone who was kicked in the head by her foal, and it took her a couple years to get past the headaches. I think there’s a lot of “stop bothering the doctor about things they can’t fix, get on with life” related to head injuries in the reported time to being “better”, and I would LOVE to see that accurately portrayed in a novel.
I like it enough to comment on how I’d like to see more, and I agree with others- this is a fantastic character foundation. Does the story have to be told linearly? Can you start us with this, back us up to Vince and the ticket, then skip forward again? Especially with showing she has a head injury and she’s having recollection issues, jumbling the story would add a tension as the reader wouldn’t always know what was current, what was past, or what was misremembered. It might even give you a better angle on the sex scenes if you can have her musing over them after the fact- especially if she’s a little looped on pain meds.
Also, I love RVs. But I’m a homebody who likes to road trip, so it’s the best of both for my late 20s self- home goes where I want to be, and I don’t have to deal with new hotels. I don’t currently own one, because they’re expensive and maintenance can be hell, but a scout leader had a Westphalia vanagon, which is like a mini camper- top pops up for sleeping, teeny sink and stove inside- and a lot of my friends who hunt can’t afford RVs either, so they get full size vans, stick a set of drawers in the back, throw a mattress on the drawers and make them into rolling tents and rely on the campground amenities. I’m currently trying to figure out how to stuff a twin mattress into my current SUV for when I get brave enough to start roadtripping again. I hate hotels, even the nice ones, a lot.
If you can give Liz a good motivation, you could throw her into a hammock in a treetop with only a mosquito net… but that’s the verisimilitude, I suppose, struggling to find what counts as a solid reason in this day, for someone her age.
I’d also be interested in Liz’s story-so-far as a serial, posted to the blog, if you’re sure you’re not going to publish it.
On July 21, 2012 at 12:54 am Merry said...
I thought that this scene had, in the words in the words of one Sarah Caudwell character, verysmellitude. But then I’m a 49er, so what do I know.
On July 21, 2012 at 2:59 am Mrs. Turkey said...
I’m in my mid-30s and fairly newly married. I like Liz, but she sounds like she’s at least in her 40s.
That said, why not make her older? One of my favorite heroines is Ofelia in Elizabeth Moon’s book, Remnant Population. She’s an old woman, and I love hearing her point of view.
I’d love to read one of your books with a woman who is in her 40s – 60s. Those are fairly uncharted waters in many genres. Could it be that she’s still single, and is coming back to town for the second round of weddings after her friends have all gotten married and then divorced? Don’t laugh — it could happen! Right as I got engaged, two of my friends, who’d been married the longest, filed for divorce.
Just an idea.
Speaking of ideas? You + Dark Fairy Tales = EPIC WIN!!!
Whatever you do, make sure that you enjoy it!
On July 21, 2012 at 3:04 am KellyJ said...
The only part I don’t buy is Liz not knowing her phone inside and out. My phone is my GPA, calendar, address book, email, radio, notepad, everything. Same is true for my friends. I am a 30-something single woman, and I’d want to be friends with Liz. Plus, being a huge fan of all things Crusie, I really want to read Liz’s story. I would call a friend instead of my mother if I got hit by a rock, no question about it. I loved this scene. It was funny and intriguing.
On July 21, 2012 at 3:05 am KellyJ said...
Freudian slip from a stressed out grad student there… that should be GPS, not GPA… LOL
On July 21, 2012 at 5:23 am JaneB said...
I’m 56: no idea if she’s a convincing 30-something. But I do feel many authors are straining when they insist on keeping their heroines 20- or 30-somethings. Nora Roberts and Jayne Ann Krentz, for example. I’ve read them for years, but I think part of the reason the books they’ve written in the past ten years haven’t been keepers for me is the distance I sense there is between them and their heroines. And if this is projection, it’s still a consideration: much of their (and your) readership are going to be post-nubile, and thus feel some distance themselves. I really want my favourite authors to evolve the stories they tell to reflect their experience. And perhaps that’s also part of relaxing and having fun with the whole thing: if it feels like you’re having to double-check everything and can’t just trust your inner storyteller, it surely can’t be as easy/flowing/fun to write.
I’m not yet firing on all cylinders this morning: hope this makes some sort of sense.
On July 21, 2012 at 8:11 am McB said...
There’s a very good point running through a lot of these comments: why does Liz have to be 30 something? I hit 50 a few months back, and I’ve got more attitude now than I did at 30. I have more confidence now, I’m more comfortable in my own skin.
So why do heroines have to be young? Why are older heroines always portrayed as feisty senior citizens? Most of the women my age and older that I know are now having FUN. The kids are raised, the career is settled, you’re either married or you’ve stopped angst ing over not being married and got on with your life. Frankly, I think 40+ is the perfect age for a heroine with attitude.
On July 21, 2012 at 10:53 am Jenny said...
Sometimes heroines are just the ages they are. If Liz was in her forties, she’d be a different person and she’d react differently to things and there wouldn’t be a story. Characters kind of show up the way they’re meant to be.
On July 22, 2012 at 4:45 pm Suzann Ellingsworth said...
Why must an age be stated? Apart from, of course, publishers’ insistence upon it for no reason besides habit. How about a subtle rebellion not stating an age? Each reader could bring her/his own experience to the character, with or without pegging a birthday score?
On July 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm Reb said...
I read a book a few years ago, first person, where we were 3/4 through before we discovered the heroine’s name. The book was about how someone could be just part of the furniture, and the author gave her name at the first point she became visible to someone. It worked surprisingly well.
On July 22, 2012 at 11:11 pm Micki said...
It’s funny how something little like a number can be a short-hand to a whole lot of other stuff. For example, when I first read Bridget Jones’ Diary in a British edition, I thought a “stone” was 20 pounds; Bridget starts her diary every day with her weight, and I was “all right! an insecure woman of weight!!” . . . when I finally learned that a stone was 14 pounds, my whole world of book just wobbled. Suddenly, she wasn’t quite so funny — just a little whiny, as a matter of fact. (Although, I did love the book.)
On July 21, 2012 at 8:34 am Reb said...
The only bit of this that didn’t ring true to me was her reaction to the presence that was about to hit her on the head. Too cool, esp once a rock had thudded down beside her. I’ve have expected a bit of terror there and didn’t see any.
I fell off my bike in my late teens and thumped my head. Your scene has about the level of incoherence I remember. Nicely done.
I’m 43 with sore shoulders and a few years ago I started thinking that an RV might beat sleeping on the ground in a tent. Not thinking it strongly enough to get one though.
On July 21, 2012 at 8:39 am Reb said...
Oh, and a tiny whimsical housetruck has appealed to me for much longer than an RV. It’s not a practical thought, but boy, I want this: http://www.konzak.com/prohousing/index.html!
On July 24, 2012 at 9:12 am Micki said...
I think Tumbleweed houses are just adorable! Along the same lines as the konzak ones, really. I’m afraid they’d shake apart with heavy-duty touring, but if they sat in the same place for extended periods, they’d be . . . adorable! Not really practical, unless one refused to make a home for clutter, I suppose.
http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
On August 12, 2012 at 6:27 pm PG said...
Something about the shortage of closet space in those houses makes me think less about clutter (I’m not really a big knickknacks person), but about reaching a stage in your life where you don’t worry so much about having clothes for every possible occasion in every possible season and kind of weather. (You know: the dress that’s appropriate for a wedding in chilly early spring, and another one for a wedding in May, and another for a summer outdoor daytime wedding, and another for a summer indoor ballroom wedding…) I spent a year traveling the world with a big suitcase-cum-backpack, and what it really forced me to do was carry only the clothing I absolutely needed and that could survive some really dubious laundries. I think living in a very small house would have the similar effect of cutting me loose from worrying so much about my appearance. (Which also might be a getting older thing? “Older” = 30, as opposed to what I worried about when I was 22.) Also I guess a very small house would force me to get all my books on Kindle because there would not be much space for bookshelves.
On July 21, 2012 at 9:05 am So Little Time said...
I do not think being in your 30′s and having an RV is an issue. When I was a kid I wanted to live in a small cabin in the woods. I’m in my 50′s and still want to. Although now I would add a cabin nextddoor with a hunky occupant who likes to take his shirt off and chop wood. A lot of wood. But I digress.
I LOVED the hit-in-the-head-with-a-rock scene. Loved it. Made my head hurt. I went down the driveway one morning to retrieve our recyclables container and awoke on my back, on the concrete, with a fine layer of snowflakes covering me. And similar to Liz, all I could think was how *mortified* my mother would be to learn I was rolling around the street in my pajamas and robe–for the neighbors to see.
Standing was not an option, so I crawled back to the house. It never occured to me that I needed help, until I (crawled) past the large clock in the living room and realized while I knew it was clock, and I knew you used it to tell time, I couldn’t remember how to decipher the clock hands and numerals. Then fear gripped me and I managed to call my husband at work to say I needed a hospital. Then I proceeded to let the dogs out to pee, because I thought, “I may be a while at the ER and thier poor little bladders will burst.” And I fell again on the ice, while letting them out. I fell twice more. Then I hurled like Liz. And I remember being flat on my back, outdoors, on the ice and snow and reviewing strange bits-and-pieces of my life. The pain where I cracked my head was vicious and blinding and I wanted to just stay there on the ground and watch the snow swirl down. Afterwards, dealing with Post Concussive Disorder was one of the most frustrating years of my life. So, we can excuse Liz if she finds herself unable to make decisions, or flies into a rage for no apparent reason, or cries over things that would normally never make her cry.
And five years later, she might still get viscious headaches when the weather changes. I’m just saying…
On July 21, 2012 at 9:22 am Charlotte said...
I am 35 and this seems pretty spot on … I have friends who would not only put in a phone number but remove it if they thought it needed to happen. So my phone is password protected. I’m presuming that Liz isn’t massively tech friendly? A lot of people I know in my age group have smart phones rather than a standard mobile so it’s connected to the internet and your email. But I also have friends who aren’t all that into it and have stuck with the standard phone.
As for the RV – I would not be happy with one. I’d sell it and buy something else. Like a refitted VW van …
On August 2, 2012 at 7:33 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...
My droid allows me to treat some of the phone numbers as favorites. So if Liz had Vince’s number her cuz could quickly put it in the favorites area – that you access by hitting a star. Regardless it might have been easy to get him becasue it was the last number entered. That’s the extent of my technical knowledge – I always ask my 30 something daughter to help me with the phone that is definitely smarter than I am.
On July 21, 2012 at 10:06 am Jo Walton said...
Speaking as a fantasy writer, writing fantasy is its own kind of problem, because yes, you make everything up, but you also have to make up the whole world and know a whole lot about how worlds work — economics and history and sociology and how that all integrates with the magical stuff you made up. Making the world work is a whole skillset.
And making the mythic stuff resonate and feel real at the same level as the realistic things is also challenging, especially if you’re also trying to be funny — and being funny is one of your great assets. But it’s a really difficult balance.
Is there some problem I can’t imagine with just writing books set in the eighties? People write historical romances, why can’t you write eighties romances?
On July 21, 2012 at 10:57 am Jenny said...
Who wants to re-visit the eighties? I did one set in the nineties and it just confused people.
But yes on the world-building which we’ve been doing for months. The big thing I’m missing is the pop culture references, but that’s probably good for me.
On July 21, 2012 at 11:06 am romney said...
Did you write one set in the nineties? I didn’t notice. But then I remember the nineties. And I read most of your books out of order.
On July 21, 2012 at 10:08 pm Hannah said...
I don’t understand that. The beginning even says it was set in the 90′s. Because.
And that was enough of an explanation for me.
On July 22, 2012 at 2:01 am Rosa said...
I wasn’t confused but I kind of wondered why Maybe This Time was set in the ’90s. I mean, I liked it, I’m listening to Bjork right this minute, but I wondered if that just happened, or if there was some specific reason.
On July 22, 2012 at 2:49 am Jenny said...
It was because I realized I wanted to write more about Alice and to do that I’d have to backdate the story.
On July 22, 2012 at 11:46 am Rosa said...
oh, that makes sense.
I’d read an ’80s story too, for what that’s worth. Rereading the Cinderella Deal, it has a really distinctive ’80s vibe that’s aged well, a kind of Andi Potts in Pretty in Pink esthetic.
On July 22, 2012 at 7:48 pm Jenny said...
Close. I wrote it about 1993 or so and revised it in ’97, I think.
On July 22, 2012 at 5:19 pm Hannah said...
I love Alice. In a lot of ways she reminds my of my 6 year old.
On July 22, 2012 at 7:49 pm Jenny said...
She was based on the seven-year-old I was living with then. Well, I’m still living with her, she’s just 10 now.
On July 23, 2012 at 8:52 pm Rosa said...
I’m from a part of Iowa where the ’80s lasted until about 1995, so I get confused. (I distinctly remember getting to campus in Iowa City in 1992 and the music & clothing being entirely different from home – we didn’t have rollerblades or grunge or bangs that touched your face yet.)
On July 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm cleo said...
Wow – I learn so much from this blog. I was certain it was because the ghost story part worked better in the early 90s – because the whole, trapped-in-this-isolated-house not-sure-what’s-going-on thing seems more believable pre smart phones and Google.
On July 21, 2012 at 10:20 am Christina said...
Well, I’m 27 and it all looks about right as far as I’m concerned. I can’t comment about the RV as I’m South African and mobile homes are not a thing here. Most international readers will simply roll with it and ascribe it to the book happening in the USA I think.
On July 21, 2012 at 11:01 am Jenny said...
The best RV interior I’ve ever seen was in an Airstream on top of a hotel in Capetown:
http://www.coolhunting.com/travel/grand-daddy-hot.php
On July 22, 2012 at 6:55 am Christina said...
OK, I followed the link and it is indeed pretty awesome, but that is very much an aberration. It is something funky that someone is doing in Cape Town (It might also work in a few other places in SA, but my first reaction was literally: Only in Cape Town). What I meant when I say RVs are not a thing, is that they are simply not very common.
I do not know anyone who owns one. I have never actually seen one on the road and I drive on one of the main holiday routes every day (The N3 between Durban and Jo’burg -avoid it at Easter if you can.). Some of it might be down to zoning out a bit while driving a familiar route, but honestly, the first time I saw an RV was last year – in Canada. (OK, I saw a boatload of RVs in Canada. In Canada -or at least Alberta- RVs are most definitely a thing.)
Obviously this is all personal opinion a la your mileage may vary, but if I read a book that has an RV it would register as ‘North American thing’ not as ‘Specific age group thing’.
There is a company in Cape Town that makes RVs, so I might just see one on the road one of these days.
On July 22, 2012 at 6:51 pm S said...
Agree with Christina. I’m ex-South African and didn’t see that many RVs in SA; those that I saw were used for annual vacations not for people who roamed the country permanently. Now I see RVs all the time parked outside houses in Canadian suburbia. In SA, I would have just ascribed the RV-owning part of the story to it being set in the US and would have just accepted it. So I doubt your global readers would have a problem with it (we don’t know any different).
On July 21, 2012 at 11:05 am romney said...
I’d love an RV. Well a small one. One of those cute VW things. I’m 39.
Verisimilitude isn’t possible in everything. Provided you flag it up as this characters goal I don’t see a problem. The thing that always throws me off is the dogs. I don’t like dogs and I’m allergic to them, so every time we get to that point in a Crusie story where the heroine adopts a dog I think “poor woman, what an awful burden”. The stories still work. Its just an additional thing for the heroine to suffer through. And you know, usually she gets a man who will help her look after the damned thing, so thats a passably happy ending.
On July 21, 2012 at 1:26 pm Georgina said...
The second half is brilliant. The first part where Molly and Liz are leaving seems a little forced to me. I think it might flow a little better if you add some small details. Example, Molly followed me out a minute later. Her high-heals clacking behind me. “What happened?” She asked in a drunken whisper.
“I toyed.”
“With Vince?” She grinned wickedly. . “I’m sorry I missed that.”
“I barely escaped with my virtue,” I said and started to walk home.
But I love the second part.
On July 21, 2012 at 2:20 pm carolc said...
I know this is re-stating the obvious, but everyone is different. No two 30-somethings are the same, either, so it doesn’t matter if Liz isn’t a ‘typical’ 30-something. What matters is that she is human, and your characters are all wonderfully human.
What makes your books so special is your voice, your snark, your style, your attitudes. I will miss Liz, but I will enjoy (tremendously) whatever you choose to write, whether it is novels, FTL, non-fiction, or a blog.
Thank you for posting this Liz snippet – it was a wonderful start to my day.
On July 21, 2012 at 7:21 pm skay said...
Yes, everything she said. Double
On July 21, 2012 at 7:03 pm lee said...
This has nothing to do with Liz. There exists, in Massachusetts, a Snow Globe Museum. See?:http://www.junk-culture.com/2011/01/collections-museum-of-modern-snowglobe.html
Truly the Junk-Culture page is deadly anyhow, because it makes it impossible to throw out anything, but the snowglobe museum? How awesome is that?
In other news, you could (probably) convince us pay money to read whatever you write, frex a subscription to this blog, or serialized stories, or snark, umm opinion I mean, and we would. Or we could pay you by the word, like Dickens (the old gasbag).
On July 21, 2012 at 10:05 pm Hannah said...
I am 20 something. But I completely get the attitude towards small towns. As well as the “what would my mother think” attitude. Having just come back from an extended visit I am ever so thankful to live in an area where not everyone remembers me as the girl who lifted her dress and flashed the audience during her first Christmas play (I was 3.)
On July 21, 2012 at 10:50 pm Jill said...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volkswagen-Bus-Vanagon-Vanagon-GL-1990-VW-Westfalia-Camper-Van-66K-Rare-Automatic-Clean-with-Many-/251109584241?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a774c2d71
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fleetwood-Tioga-Flyer-HD-29-FT-Chevy-Van-30HD-Gas-454-7-4L-Class-C-RV-NO-RESERVE-/320948080742?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item4ab9ff1066
http://www.vintagetrailercrazy.com/id3.html
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS3fZwtQxT4AarmJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dantique%2Bmotorized%2BRV%26_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dantique%2Bmotorized%2BRV%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701-s%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D49&w=1280&h=860&imgurl=api.ning.com%2Ffiles%2F0ZnPWdnRJMjaM48WD7U%2AIsLr9i%2A15JXoLiEyLrjEPCYRMZkbS5y0Q3rQpXo9oLfjAquK3uPbvC9hGntlosl93xy58Zlrg0fj%2Frightside.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgoodoldrvs.ning.com%2Fxn%2Fdetail%2F2093474%3APhoto%3A6135%3Fxg_source%3Dactivity&size=110.4+KB&name=Myrtle+the+motorhome+-+Good+Old+RVs&p=antique+motorized+RV&oid=da8a1f26491c7f1290cb0ab9700ae71f&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701-s&tt=Myrtle%2Bthe%2Bmotorhome%2B-%2BGood%2BOld%2BRVs&b=31&ni=84&no=49&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12a52i0j1&sigb=14c2a84d6&sigi=141g9e6rd&.crumb=F7DHKBtpRBE
When /if you get this RV be sure it has a head (shower/tiolet)
On July 22, 2012 at 11:58 am Charlene Teglia said...
I liked the scene. And I really hope you find a way to save the book. But on the whole contemporary and verisimilitude thing, I decided a long time ago that contemps, just like paranormals and historicals, actually require their own world-building and exist in their own unique world, reality-adjacent. The important thing is what Elizabeth Bear refers to as “fabulous reality” (and go read her LJ, it’s full of fabulous stuff about writing), which is where your characters and world come across so vividly and believably that you can get away with damn near anything and readers will come along for the ride. Really, forget that it’s called “contemporary”. Focus on fabulous reality, which you do fabulously well, and make whatever Liz does work in HER reality, screw what somebody else would do/believe/experience.
On July 22, 2012 at 2:39 pm Catherine said...
When I was in my 30s I inherited a small travel trailer. If you had asked me beforehand if I thought I would like to have one I would have laughed hysterically and thought that I was too cool and too young for such a thing. After one was passed down to me, and I actually thought about the appeal (a rolling hotel room where I could pick the view out my window, camping city girl style with air conditioning and indoor plumbing, easy travel with my dog, and having my own bed always bedbug free) I gave it a try and really enjoyed it. After a year, my husband and I ended up buying a larger one. There were always a wide range of ages at the campgrounds – a lot of retirees, true, but also a lot of families. Also quite a few young couples who had made a step up from tent camping.
On July 22, 2012 at 7:13 pm S said...
I’m 43 so I don’t know if she is typical of a 30-something single. From what I’ve seen of 30-something singles though, she’d be obsessed with social media. She’d be tweeting, texting, face-booking (I’m guessing this is a verb) and would be dating online. But if this is how you write Liz, you’ll date your work because 5 years from now, the technology will have changed and 30-somethings will be doing something else. And honestly, I don’t want to read about a social-media using heroine. Don’t we, as writers, get a pass on that level of accuracy (willing suspension of disbelief)? As long as she isn’t faxing the hero, or feeding coins into a public phone, isn’t that enough?
On July 22, 2012 at 7:50 pm Jenny said...
I like the way you think.
On July 22, 2012 at 11:18 pm Micki said...
LIKE! But OMG, I have some stories about trying to find a pay phone in this day and age, and then trying to find enough change (many dollars!) to feed it for a three-minute long-distance call!! Special situation, though.
On July 22, 2012 at 10:06 pm Judy, Judy, Judy said...
I can’t speak for 30 somethings as I’m 50 something but I’ve wanted an rv to live in since I was in my 20′s.
As for not liking Liz – I don’t get that. I’ve liked everything you’ve shared with Liz in it so far. I have infinite respect for any decision you make but I have to admit to being disappointed that I wouldn’t get to read the Liz story/stories.
I had to look up verisimilitude. Interesting word. I have to say that Andromeda is one of my favorite novel characters ever. If you decide to write again and you want to write 50 – 60 year old heroines – I’ll be happy as a clam.
On July 23, 2012 at 11:32 am Corinne said...
When I think of things that make a character or a story less than believable for me, it’s usually to do with the context–someone mentioned avoiding anachronism–or the attributes the author has given the character (I’m in academia, so when I read about a heroine who’s an eminent and world-renowned Ph.D. at the top of her game at the age of 27, I’m always thinking, “yeah, like that would really happen”). If the character’s preferences and behavior are consistent with her/his experiences and personality, I’m happy even if it reads as a bit odd in terms of American culture at large (sometimes happier if it does so). Which, in any case, is so atomized and fragmented that it’s questionable whether there is a single culture that you have to worry about Liz fitting into anyway. As a character, Liz doesn’t strike me as someone who would be too concerned about whether she’s “normal.” Not only has she built her life around a whole different set of concerns (i.e., avoidance), she seems to be too stubborn to be a conformist and too practical to be a hipster.
And yes, I’m interpreting Liz in light of my own experience–I’m a thirty-something single woman, and I have to say that I enjoy the absence of an internal voice telling me that I have to behave in some typical way. I get to live my life based on a combination of preferences and the hand I was dealt, and while it isn’t perfect, it is a lot of fun. I’m also a pretty hard-core avoider of social media; sometimes I think Twitter looks like fun, but Facebook makes me twitch–so take it for what it’s worth, but at least one of us isn’t eternally connected! To answer your specific question, the only thing in the scene that I thought might lack verisimilitude was that Liz seemed awfully articulate for someone who’d just been hit with a rock.
This last is a bit off topic, and I apologize in advance– but is there any word as to when the promised print edition of Crazy People might be available? (Part of my embrace of my inner crotchety is a dislike of e-books, unless there’s no other option.) (And speaking of verisimilitude, this question is brought to you by the experience of stopping for gas in Celina, Ohio, thinking, “where do I know this place from?” and then looking for signs for Tibbett even though I know darn well it doesn’t really exist.)
On July 23, 2012 at 1:01 pm Jenny said...
Tibbett is spelled “Wapakoneta” in Ohio. I took the name from a street in Columbus that’s spelled Tibet, but it pronounced “tibbett.” We have a lot of those in Ohio. Lima with a long i, Bellefontaine pronounced Bell-Fountain, but “tibbett” is the one that got to me.
On July 23, 2012 at 3:42 pm Pam Regis said...
I’ll see your Ohio and raise you a Maryland. I was born in Havre-de-Grace, Maryland. Pronounced Have-Ur-Dee-Grayce, sometimes known as Have-Ur-Dee. Street in that town: Juanita. Pronounced June-Eee-At-Ah.
On July 24, 2012 at 12:22 am Clever Cherry said...
There’s a town near us named Aurora. The locals pronounce it ‘r or uh’.
On July 24, 2012 at 9:19 am Micki said...
Exotic Cairo, pronounced like the syrup, Karo. Hmm, I wonder if we got Utica right, though — You-te-ka (e is schwa).
On July 26, 2012 at 9:11 am JulieB said...
Micki – I know Utica! When we drive south, we always passed an exit for Lacon. Of course, I always pronounced it La Kohn, but my husband said I was probably putting on airs. After driving past at least 4 times a year for several years, we needed to stop in for gas. I asked the cashier how to pronounce the name of the town to the west. The husband was right, it rhymes with “bacon.”
On July 24, 2012 at 11:03 am skay said...
Yes Ohio has some strange pronunciations don’t forget MedIna (looong I). I tripped over every one as long as I lived there. I could pronounce Wapakometa however…
On July 25, 2012 at 2:25 pm cleo said...
My mom grew up in Chillicothe, so I always kind of pictured Tibbett as Chillicothe and Temptation as Circleville (which we drove through once a year on the long (culturally as well as geographically) trip from Ann Arbor Mi to Chillicothe to visit my grandparents).
On August 2, 2012 at 7:42 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...
When I lived in Iowa there were 2 towns not far from Des Moines with special pronunciations. Madrid – with emphasis on an angry sounding MAD and not like the foreign capital. Nevada is pronounced Nev – AY- duh not like the desert state. Of course everyone from South Dakota knows that the capital rhymes with beer.
On July 23, 2012 at 1:18 pm Caryn said...
I confess it doesn’t match my own experience with a concussion — I didn’t even know I’d had one until I realized I was missing time. And things were slightly brain-fogged, not sharp like Liz is in this scene. I knew what I had to do and I did it but it turned out I’d missed important stuff (it was a rear-ender and I didn’t get their driver’s license numbers — never occurred to me at the time). And periodically I’d phase out over the next couple of days, such as when I had to pay for groceries and realized I wasn’t sure how to pay or what money was. (Very scary for a couple of moments, but great for research.)
From what I see, Liz doesn’t want out badly enough — her actions show she’s conflicted as all hell, but she doesn’t want out she just wants it to be different.
On July 23, 2012 at 1:41 pm Stephanie Leary said...
Liz sounds about right to me.
I would have said that no one my age would want an RV, too, until I saw the pictures Lani posted a couple of years ago, of the one with the remodeled interior that looked like it came from an IKEA catalog. Now that, I could live in. (Just as soon as I finish replacing my library with ebooks…. yeah, it’ll be a while.)
On July 23, 2012 at 3:33 pm Andrea said...
Past my 30s myself, but lots of my friends are Liz’s age, and the only vocabulary that sounded unlikely to me was, as someone mentioned upthread, “son of a bitch.” (That might be a regional/subcultural difference, though.) I think you can finesse all that phone stuff — she’s just suspiciously relieved that Vince knows who she is.
Incidentally, one friend of mine got hold of a banged-up little RV when she was just a few years out of college. It was her ticket out of the midwest: she drove it to the California coast, then for a year or so lived in it on a shoestring, working in a bakery and studying bellydance. She didn’t stay in the camps or participate in any kind of cross-country “RV scene,” but she loved her miniature house on wheels, and for a while it was just perfect for her.
On July 23, 2012 at 7:35 pm julie said...
As an almost 30 year old, I would say she reads slightly older to me… but that’s because she has a confidence and a restriction that seems alien to me. She’s got a confindence in herself that is awesome, but I can’t tell if it’s because she has survived her life, or just one of those things you gain as you get older. The constant worries about what her mother would think completely undermine the confindence, and I’m guessing her crappy childhood is what sets that up.
I feel like if she was interested in an RV, then it would have been redone sometime in the last few years probably, and she is probably not interested in going to far or getting there fast. With gas prices these days… yuck. Also, for the last 5 years, the economic reality has intruded horribly into my life, so I can’t imagine that Liz’s choices would be lessed based in that reality. If she’s broke and her next paycheck is from this book, I don’t see how that’s not her biggest focus, even with her mom, ex and friends in the way. If the only backup plan is her mother’s house, why the heck is she in burney?
On July 23, 2012 at 8:48 pm Jinx said...
I realize this is a fruitless endeavor, but I’m just another one of the chorus here that wish we could get our hands on the Liz book or books to buy and read, then re-read, because it sounds so fun.
Of course, if you are just hating the experience of trying to wring a finished manuscript out of Liz’s world, that pleasure wouldn’t be worth it — you shouldn’t be forced to suffer just to make us all sigh with happiness.
But I don’t think you’ve aged out of being able to write about the lives of people younger or older than yourself. And certainly not for the reason of not knowing enough about the pop culture matrix that somebody 25 or 35 or 45 might be inhabiting. I think the frameworks of our lives overlap a lot, so if you know anything about people somewhat younger than yourself, you can sort of identify the areas of difference and either research them (talk to people that age) or award your target 20- or 30- or whatever with enough quirks & independent viewpoints that they won’t just be some kind of generic Twenty-Something, but an individual swimming in that particular area of the pool.
I loved reading about your heroine who was obsessed with the china patterns of a 1920′s artist, even though it was lots of years later. Or your 17-year-old boy who could name a movie with Ray Milland. I think it’s likely that a lot of your readers are atypical of their generation or their country or their social group, and also that part of what they enjoy about your books is that you write about individual women who go their own ways in life, even if that means swimming upstream.
Plus your blog includes book collages and NSFW cartoons and crocheted lobsterflies and all kinds of visual stuff that feeds the eyeballs of our imaginations.
I mean, stop writing the Liz books if you hate the place and hate the people and never want to think about them again, but don’t stop because you think you’re inadequate to the task, because that is just plain wrong.
On July 24, 2012 at 12:24 am Clever Cherry said...
I would love that last paragraph a thousand times if I could.
On July 24, 2012 at 11:55 am Katie Redhead said...
I am single (not married, although long term dating) and just turned 30 in May.
I echo what others have said about there is no one way people act when in their 30s – it’s the same as any other age, people are who they are regardless of their birthday – and you have the skills to write them in a believable way. I do understand about there being certain nuances of language or technology or culture that might vary a bit, that you would want to make sure you didn’t violate unintentionally.
I believed Liz’s voice. Some of the cell phone details seemed slightly weird to me, but I think that might be in part because you had prepped me to to look for it.
So the comment Liz makes: “who the hell she was going to drunk dial with my caller ID” threw me out of the story a little..because it’s not Liz’s caller ID that’s the problem if Molly drunk dials. Something more like (who the hell she was going to drunk dial) “from my number” or “with my phone” seems more like something one of my friends or I might say.
I’m with Sam on the cell phone whirring thing too. I thought she had failed to connect her outgoing call and was getting an incoming call for a second.
And I was also confused about Vince knowing it was her. Maybe I’ve always just been too cheap to add caller ID to my cell plan but I thought caller ID was a land line thing, and that if she was calling his cell phone, he’d need to have her in his contacts already to know it was her. I suppose Vince could have a land line if he lives in a diner that she was calling, but most of the 30 somethings who are single that I know only have cell phones or if they have land lines, it’s just because they get cheaper internet because of bundling or they get no cell service in their house so they have to have it but they rarely if ever use or give out those numbers.
I do totally buy the RV thing completely – especially if there’s a “long story” reason that help explains it. I feel like most of the people I hang out with are into the idea that less is more, and that having too much stuff makes you a slave to it. (That sounds so skinny jean hipster pretentious – I swear I’m not really, I just don’t want more than I need, and I really don’t need all that much.) Maybe that’s partly a reaction to watching our parents fueled by materialism or maybe it’s because with the economy where it has been, our generation knows we can’t possibly commit ourselves to affording the same amount of stuff, but I know I’ve reframed how I think about what is most important to me – and a traditional big house with lots of stuff inside isn’t it.
I feel like Liz, with her mother’s bear hoarding, might see the power in owning less and being mobile. The way the world is now, you are more able than ever to be able to work wherever you are, especially if you’re in a job like Liz’s, so the idea of “traveling light” in an RV and being able to meet your responsibilities while living out your adventure is something that resonates with me and I think a lot of my peers. I noticed that same willingness to be adventuresome and rootless and own less totally changes once my friends get married and have kids and need to have all the baby accoutrements, and want to be around family while they raise theirs, but for Liz being single and with the job she has, I totally buy it. And actually think it’s kinda cool.
For the social media stuff, I personally have never gotten too into it. Facebook started to get big the year I graduated college, so some of my friends are into it, but not all of them. I never got the appeal of telling everybody all your business all the time, but then I’m a private person. (this long personal post on a public blog aside, of course.) So I think with social media, you can make her anyway you want – uber user, occasional lurker, reluctant user or total social media teetotaler and people will buy it.
This is giving me hope that we’ll hear more from Liz. I hope so. I like her and she seems like someone I would hang out with, for what it’s worth.
On July 31, 2012 at 2:36 am CrankyOtter said...
I agree with the “drunk dial from my caller ID” not being quite right – probably more from her contacts or recent calls list.
And as someone still in my 30s, I have friends at all levels ood social media usage. Some just post about kids, some repost every mildly entertaining thing they run across, some blog, some tweet, some post to FB, some are on boards, a few do all, a few just lurk. One particular friend surprised me by getting her/their first cellphone. And that only because they sold their house, are retiring next month (she and her husband are in their 30s and quite frugal) and they plan to start out by camping and fishing for a few months. I’m not sure if they’ll stay in a tent or upgrade to mobile camper, but it wouldn’t be out of the question. Which is all to say that 30 something’s living somewhat outside predominant social norms could wind up in a camper with a dumb-phone, if it suits them.
Go with your gut, or your girls. Your heroines have never been average, even if they read as regular folk. I’d rather have a wacky anachronism than an average gal. As an example of anachronistic fun, one author I met at the giant RWA signing said she and her husband dress in 1890′s inspired steampunk when they “cobble together enough funds” to take a cruise with formal dining nights. “they didn’t specify which century the formal wear should come from”. Wacky, but awesome.
On July 24, 2012 at 12:14 pm AndreaS said...
I’m just going to add my voice as one of the many people who still want to read Liz. It might be a long time from now, and you might end up changing a lot. But I’m very interested in the story and in hearing about Liz.
Also, as a 27 year old, I didn’t find anything usual about the scene you posted. I also don’t find the idea of Liz having an RV that weird. I would find the idea of anybody about my age living in an RV unusual, but since it fits so well with Liz and her profession, I think it would work. She’s already breaking all the molds by leaving Burney and never settling down someplace. Why not this one too.
On July 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm Robin S. said...
Did you know it takes an insane amount of time to read through 142 comments? It’s time for me to eat lunch now while I’m sitting in my remains of breakfast!
I’m 52, but college kids think RV’s are ‘ok’ so I don’t think Liz at 30 would be an anomaly.
As for the concussion, Miss Picky wants you to ditch the temple blow. In the right spot, it is a death blow. It made me twitchy. As for symptoms, there are a wide range. I’ve had three concussions and all three were different. (I used to work horses for a living back when only jockeys wore helmets. No, that’s not a dinosaur you see over there.)
On July 24, 2012 at 2:17 pm Jenny said...
I know what you mean about the comment. Really my Argh posts are just there for all of you to hang comments on; that’s where the good stuff is.
And then there’s Bob’s famous no-post post on the original He Wrote She Wrote.
On July 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm Lindsey said...
As a 30-something, getting closer to 40 all the time, I see nothing wrong with this scene, verisimilitude-wise. I like it, and I like her. I have been struggling back to writing after major life changes, myself. It’s taken me awhile. And changing focus, abandoning a project, even a project I still care about, is sometimes necessary. So I can empathize with your decision, and I’ll cheer you on in whatever you move to next. (Although as a fan, I still totally want to read this story. As a writer, I understand the need to move on. So conflicted!)
On July 24, 2012 at 8:30 pm Micki said...
I’m kind of amazed at the number of people who have had concussions. I had no idea they were so common. I’ve worried about people having a concussion, but I’ve never had one nor have I seen one. (-: I must not live very adventurously! So glad everyone seems to have been OK (or at least fair-to-middling) eventually.
On July 24, 2012 at 11:39 pm Cari said...
As a 30-something, smart phone-weilding, single woman, I’m weighing in to say that I found Liz entirely believable – down to “virtue,” which I can see many of my cadre of friends saying, in an homage-to-Heyer sort of way. We talk that way, especially if there’s been alcohol. The RV is the sort of thing that grows on one, I think, though I tend to dream more of a re-fitted VW bus; very Scooby.
Anecdatum: On the social media front, while I have a facebook account (page? wall?), I use it only seldom, and then only as an extension of my professional persona; I don’t use other social networking stuff at all. And I’m a mad tech geek. The rest of my close friends of this age tend to be similar. They all also have smart phones, and I have no trouble imagining them putting something in my phone easily (hence the passcode), nor would I have any difficulty doing so in a matter of moments, and my friends would do something like that to me. Also, hasn’t everyone seen A Study in Pink?
tl; dr: You’ve got verisimilitude in spades.
On July 25, 2012 at 1:39 pm Siri Paulson said...
Regarding the tech stuff, I’m an urban dweller in my early 30s, and a lot of my friends are borderline with the connectivity. We all have cell phones (mostly smartphones, though mine isn’t — but I do have caller ID, so I wouldn’t be surprised that Vince knew it was her); we all have Facebook profiles but a lot of us don’t check them regularly. I have a blog and a Twitter and a Pinterest not because of my age but because I’m a writer. My brother, who’s eight years younger, is way more into everything tech.
On July 25, 2012 at 2:44 pm Tara said...
I am a very independent 34-year old one and hell yes, I would take a free RV if I needed it for something. I would also contemplate NOT calling someone whilst bleeding on my front lawn. Then I would DEFINITELY call the hot cop I kissed. Oh, and I would absolutely obsess over my Mother’s reaction to my being stoned on her front lawn. (Stoned as in hit-with-a, rather than the other meaning.)
On July 25, 2012 at 5:21 pm Naked Under My Clothes said...
I’ve waded through some of the comments, which are funny and insightful as usual. I may have missed this, so if someone else has already asked, I’m sorry, but…
…is there any way you could write about what you DO know? Like, women in their 50s and 60s who are fucking fabulous and reinventing themselves RIGHT and LEFT and SIDEWAYS?
I would totally read that book. I mean, I know..the market, aspirational-aged heroines, blah blah. But if anyone could CHANGE THE MARKET, it would be you. And it doesn’t have to be “therapy on the page,” it could be things you already dealt with. Like the last time you reinvented yourself, through collaboration. How does a woman recognize when she’s a mentor. Et cetera.
Sorry for all the SHOUTING but I have just spent a holiday with my sister and a friend (both over 60! and fabulous!) and we have had a FUN TIME.
On July 25, 2012 at 6:40 pm Kim said...
8-9
It’s curious to me that Liz imagines herself responding with such animation if someone else called her about having been hit with a rock, while she seems almost blase about herself having been hit. I expect I’d be panicking more, amidst my comparable stream-of-consciousness thoughts, but I think that’s more a function of my specific personality than my being a 31-year-old, single woman. I’d definitely be thinking about parental reactions, as Liz does, albeit more concerned and less disappointed reactions in my case!
On July 26, 2012 at 1:06 pm Judy VanHoose said...
I’m in my late 30′s, but not single. It’s certainly believable. I have fantasized about taking off in an RV for a year – not a hipster Airstream, either – just a big ‘ole, tacky RV with a lot of brown upholstery and orange formica. Anyway, I think you should get over yourself and just publish it. You’re being too hard on yourself.
On July 27, 2012 at 2:41 pm Jane said...
Not an Airstream nor a RV, but how about a Caravan (care-a-van), one of those VW buses outfitted as a pre-RV that was cherried out by a woman allergic to plastic so it is super eco-friendly with its tenth engine.
\o/
On July 27, 2012 at 4:55 pm Deborah Blake said...
Hey–nothing to do with this conversation, but did you see that BET ME was included on a list of “7 Smart Romance Books”?
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/book-news/tip-sheet/article/53267-7-smart-romance-books.html?utm_source=PW+Tip+Sheet&utm_campaign=38550e99f0-UA-15906914-1&utm_medium=email
On July 29, 2012 at 9:20 am Jenny said...
Thank you! I’d missed that.
On July 31, 2012 at 2:33 pm Deborah Blake said...
I jumped out and down in my seat (in a very dignified way, of course) when I saw it
Especially since the “smart” part is something I always tell people when I recommend your (and Lani’s) books.
On July 28, 2012 at 4:06 am Sure Thing said...
@Jenny – I know that sometimes when you’re dealing with stuff, it can be really hard to be pleasant in the face of all of the “see how this person does it” and platitudes of “You’ll be ok.”
I’ve use the latter at you because I’ve all seen your resilience in the face of challenges. I truly *believe* you’ll be ok.
It is now time to use the former. http://www.sports.ndtv.com/all-sports-news/item/194244-blind-south-korean-archer-claims-first-world-records-at-the-olympics YOU HAVE GOT TO READ THIS!
It’s got added benefit of being topical – Olympics!!!!
And before you hit me over the head, let me say “Daniel Craig” in the opening ceremony. If you haven’t seen the clip, go and prevail upon Milord google” for a viewing – totally worth it.
On July 29, 2012 at 5:06 pm robena grant said...
Just got home from RWA National and was so super busy that I only attended five workshops, but out of those five at least four either mentioned your name, or a book you wrote or a character you wrote. So Crusie lives on whether or not she likes her current work. Just sayin! : 0
On July 29, 2012 at 10:29 pm Jenny said...
YAY. I’m not forgotten yet.
Although it’s only a matter of time.
Thank you!
On July 30, 2012 at 11:14 am robena grant said...
Yep. Never forgotten, only missed. My friend Rick asked if I’d introduce him to you and was so sad that you couldn’t attend this year. He’s a huge fan, and you are the reason he’s a romance writer. He wore a kilt to the awards ceremony and got an amazing photo with Nora Roberts, which he’s now using as his avatar. Show off. : )
On July 31, 2012 at 1:59 am Jenny said...
Tell him when National is on the East Coast again, you can introduce us. I do not do the Left Coast any more.
On July 31, 2012 at 8:34 am Kieran said...
Good! It’s just not as fun at the conference when some of the very best authors in the business are missing. Just seeing big names like you in the corridors gives everyone else a boost. Robyn Carr gave an excellent luncheon speech–loved hearing how it took her 30 years to become an overnight success. At her luncheon speech, Stephanie Laurens put up diagrams describing the shifting players in the online versus offline publishing business. Agents were nowhere on the diagram. I wonder how THEY felt out in the audience.
On July 29, 2012 at 8:42 pm Sheri (aka Rescue Cherry) said...
Ok. I see the problem. First person…. You have to live SO much in the character’s head that the monologue can go on forever without including anyone else… I had no issues with the character or what she was doing, so I think Robena was right in another post where she said to get out of the first person and do what you do best… I liked the character, just not living in her head… JMHO
On July 30, 2012 at 7:39 pm Laura West said...
Hey there Jenny,
Have been wishing for a new Crusie read, and just discovered this blog.
Sending health and warm fuzzies your way. Have always LISTENED to your books
as I have macular degeneration (started in childhood) and other issues that have made managing my teaching career a challenge. Please give yourself all the room you need
not just to heal, but to get to know your new circumstances. It’s actually a bit of a grieving process (went thru this at age 17 when one eye became legally blind, and I had to learn how to go to college using books on tape, readers, large print typewriter).
It was so aggravating how what was simple and easy for others took adjustments and time for me. But over time it happened-along with the emotional healing..
A book called “Surviving a Personal Crisis” helped, lots of love and support (which it sounds like youre getting-though more is always good) Another writer who gives me a bit of the thrills similar to reading your work (humor, fun , loves dogs and cats, poetic
justice often comes to play) is Kerry Greenwood from Australia. Wish I could send you each other’s books as I believe she would enjoy your work too.
Reading has always
been theraputic for me. Thanks for the great “therapy” you’ve given me over the years!
And yes, I might bid for mixed media art from you! We all need a change now and then. love, Laura
On July 31, 2012 at 1:57 am Jenny said...
Hey thanks for the hopeful words on the AMD. I appreciate them!
On July 31, 2012 at 6:41 pm Thea said...
Hey, I love Kerry Greenwood too! Going to Australia in October/November, gonna find me a bookstore and buy –
On July 31, 2012 at 9:27 am Sofie said...
Jenny, there are lots of people in their 20′s and 30′s living in camper vans–ones they bought or ones they made. It may be that the term RV is what makes Mollie and others think of something owned by a couple of seniors. Google “VanDwellers” and you’ll find a world that may work for Liz–there’s even a Yahoo group.
On July 31, 2012 at 7:22 pm Nori said...
There’s a whole tiny house movement chock full of young people. Some actually do live in RVs and some live in converted buses, tiny houses built on utility trailers, floating houses . . . . yurts, converted garden sheds, garages . . . converted rail cars, vardo wagons . . . Check out tinyhouseblog.com and http://tinyhouseswoon.com.
On August 1, 2012 at 12:19 pm Robin D. Mangano said...
After re-reading “Getting Rid of Bradley” for the third or fourth time, I stumbled onto this site while looking for the title of the latest Crusie. Since when does smart and witty have an expiration date? Your talent will translate to older characters because good knows no age or boundaries. As a nurse who has had a few concussions myself, I don’t think that Liz would be so with it as to realize she had been hit by a rock. She would, however, have the disjointed, rambling thoughts while lying on the front lawn. Any daughter would worry about what her mom would say before she worried about herself so I could definately see her calling Vince rather than someone 20 feet away.
Please keep writing! As someone who has always dreamed of being a writer but didn’t have the talent, don’t waste what you have been given. We need smart, funny, get the job done characters no matter what their age.
On August 2, 2012 at 7:49 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...
To me driving an RV around the country has always sounded like retirement hell but after reading ALL of the posts, I now see that a 30 something might enjoy it. Not me.
On August 14, 2012 at 5:42 pm Ericka said...
i’m a bit late to the party – sorry. i’ve got a couple years left in my 30s, so i guess i qualify.
my thoughts:
1. his phone number – i can see it only taking a couple of minutes IF she knew it, but why would she know it? the only phone numbers i know these days are mine and the one my parents have had since i was born. if i was putting his number into her phone, i’d have to extract it from mine first. also? nearly everyone i know has their phone locked. so she’d have to unlock it for her or are they close enough that molly knows her code?
2. caller id – her cell number would show up as a cell phone call or something unless he had her number in his phone. was molly helping him too?
3. the repetition with her mom – given the knock on the head in her mother’s yard, that plays i think. if she were anywhere else, i’d wonder about that ’cause clearly disappointing her mother hasn’t really bothered her to this point.
4. the rv – i am fascinated with rv’s – all the nifty little things crammed in there! it’s like a boat except not on water. one thing though is that depending on the size of the rv, a class c commercial drivers license is required. so make sure she can drive the one she ends up getting.