Writewell, the Course Description

Mar222012

So in the interests of keeping things simple so potential buyers don’t have to wade through a lot of stuff to find info, I’ve pared the content for my lecture pages down to a minimum. What I need to know is, does this give enough info about the course?

Lecture 103: Introduction to Conflict

Conflict is the fuel of story . . .
and this lecture tells you how to use it. The lesson can also help in writing a first draft as long as you’re still focusing on your story and not on craft, but it’s probably most useful for analyzing a finished draft.

The 103 Lecture is divided into four parts:
1. The Definition of Conflict
2. The Major Players: Protagonist and Antagonist
3. Analyzing Conflict in Story
4. Revising for a Conflict Lock

The Lecture Package has four parts:
1. The Slideshow Lecture with voiceover
2. The Audio of the voiceover alone.
3. The 103 Notebook (thumbnails of the slides with quad-ruled spaces for taking notes) in PDF
4. The 103 Workbook (exercises to analyze your story in progress with the concepts of the lecture) in PDF
5. Certificate of Completion.

How to Use the Lecture Packet Suggested Plan of Study:
1. Push the Paypal button and download your packet. [I'll get the exact instructions from Alastair later.]
2. Watch the video without taking notes to become familiar with the basics of conflict as an introduction to the material.
3. Watch the video again, this time using the Notebook to take notes of the important points.
4. Using the Workbook, analyze your story-in-progress to understand the conflict and revise for a conflict lock.
5. Fill out the certificate and tape it to your wall. You worked hard; you deserve it.

Or

Lecture 211: The Four Act Structure
Structure is the spine of your story . . .

It really doesn’t matter what structure you use as long as you have a structure, but the classic linear plot is the most common in storytelling. The four-act approach to linear storytelling is adapted from Aristotle and screenplay structure, so it’s both classic and modern, referencing the basics of structure for thousands of years and the way most people get their story today.

Pre-requisite*:Lecture 103: Introduction to Conflict

The 211 Lecture is divided into four parts:
1. The Definition of Story Structure
2. The Importance of Turning Point Scenes
3. The Use of Acts in Building Story
4. The Crucial Role of the Climax

The Lecture Package has four parts:
1. The Slideshow Lecture with voiceover
2. The Audio of the voiceover alone.
3. The 211 Notebook (thumbnails of the slides with quad-ruled spaces for taking notes) in PDF
4. The 211 Workbook (exercises to analyze your story in progress with the concepts of the lecture) in PDF
5. Certificate of Completion.

How to Use the Lecture Packet Suggested Plan of Study:
1. Push the Paypal button and download your packet.
2. Watch the video without taking notes to become familiar with the basics of conflict as an introduction to the material.
3. Watch the video again, this time using the Notebook to take notes of the important points.
4. Using the Workbook, analyze your story-in-progress to understand the conflict and revise for a conflict lock.
5. Fill out the certificate and tape it to your wall. You worked hard; you deserve it.

*Note on pre-requisites: You can take any lecture at any time, nobody’s checking. But there are particular concepts that are taught in lower level classes that we will take for granted that you know when you sign up for a later level class that has a pre-requisite. For example, any course that says “Pre-requisite: 103″ will be an extension of 103 and will not explain those terms and concepts in detail again. So if you skip the pre-req and take the more advanced course, it may be confusing and frustrating. This applies to all the pre-requisites listed. Please note that not all courses have pre-reqs.

Does that tell you enough? Is there too much information there? Help.

Filed in Writing

55 Comments to 'Writewell, the Course Description'

On March 22, 2012 at 4:52 am Egads said...

Point 4 under the “How to use” the 211 lecture is copy/pasted from 103. Seems like it should be different for the course material as you have it set up now. Otherwise, the amount of explanation is good for me.

I’m a cranky old lady awake at 4 in the morning, but the “how to use” the certificate is striking me as patronizing. It would mean more to me if you didn’t automatically get a certificate with every class download, but I recognize that monitoring who gets a certificate and when is just too much effort. I’m stumped for a better suggestion. It’s probably just me being too cranky anyway.

Do you need the lecture package parts and how to use the lecture package repeated for each course? Could you do a general page about the series with that info and then just list each course with the specifics? It makes the description sound less repetitive if you drop it, because half of each course info you have above is just copy/pasted repeated info. Also, if there is something specifically you want to say about applying the lesson, you could say it after the course outline in an “Applying what you’ve learned” note. That note could be specific to the material. For example, “analyze your story in progress and revise for conflict lock.”

I will be reading each course description before picking a course. I just realized that reading the certificate point repeatedly is one thing that’s making it sound patronizing to me.

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On March 22, 2012 at 7:57 am Leigh Evans said...

I, too, had a speedbump with “how to use lecture packet.” Don’t know why (which makes this near a useless criticism), but my eyes narrowed on the line. I think if I heard you speak the phrase, it would come out in Jenny tone & cadence. But it hasn’t translated well on the page for me.

I’m actually against general information pages. I hate clicking back and forth or having to print out instructions. And I’ve got a lousy short-term memory, so I always end up clicking back and forth. For instance, when I read one of those class overviews, I saw something and knew it would end up being a problem for you–some little minute detail thing that some webusers would stumble over and pester you about. “Must tell Jenny,” I thought, starting this comment. Then I just happened to read Egads’ and ::::poof::::: I can’t remember what I wanted to tell you.

Which I’m sure is as exquisitely useful as my earlier “speedbump” comment…Yeah, you’re right. I better fire up the coffee maker.

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On March 22, 2012 at 8:04 am Micki said...

OMG, you have to repeat it Every Single Time, Egads . . . because people don’t look at other pages (-:. I’m thinking of another blog, and how many times a certain author has said in various ways that she can’t have agave syrup . . . but people don’t read all the comments or posted early and missed them, or etc etc etc. Put it in every course. Saves time and heartache later. I’m OK with the certificate use, too, but not sure if I’d personally do it. I think repeat students will start to skip paragraphs that are the same from course to course, so if you have new information, be sure to put it at the top, and make it look new!

Also, I wonder if you should provide how these courses are provided — I think you said the notebook and workbook are PDF. The lecture is . . . a podcast? Does a person need a certain amount of computer power to make this work?

I think you should get the sample lesson up and running and let people beta that for you — have them report what systems they are using and what problems they run into. I have a super-slow connection (cell phone modem), so something that requires a buffer would be a problem for me, frex.

(-: My two cents, just before bedtime!

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On March 22, 2012 at 11:49 am Robin S. said...

I’m just going to second Micki. She’s covered everything I was going to say!

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On March 22, 2012 at 8:15 am Lisa said...

It tells me enough. The five parts & how to use lecture packet seem fine to me. Maybe I should point out that I’m a student – the terminology and directions seem normal to me.

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On March 22, 2012 at 8:29 am Naked Under My Clothes said...

Could you make the “How to use the lecture packet” have more of a “Suggested ways to get the most out of this course, YMMV” feel? That’s how I read it, and I actually appreciated the list. But if it makes others cranky, that’s one way to soften it.

I like the level of detail in the rest — I have bought writing books with less info about them than you’ve provided here. I would be confident I’d get my $10 worth.

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:04 am JulieB said...

I love the descriptions! I really have a good idea of what I’m getting and how to plan for using it. I look at this and I can figure out how much time to budget to work on the materials, and each description you’ve provided so far tells me the goal of the lesson and it’s value to me as a writer. This really crystalizes the program for me.

I did not have a problem with the “How to use” section; in fact, I really liked it. Again, it helped me because I can figure out how I might allow enough time in one day to really go through all the steps, or conversely, I can see areas that I can use as logical breaks so I can complete step one the first day, combine two and three another, and finish the week looking at step four. (Or rather steps 2-5 because I think you should keep the Pay-pal step listed at the top.)

And, I think each segment needs to have the “How to” section at the bottom because part of the brilliance of this is that you’re setting it up so students can move around the areas at their own pace and according to their own needs, so just putting it on the first one might not be as effective for students. I guess you could make it generic if it’s too tedious to edit each one, but I like seeing the learning outcomes and applications listed.

FWIW, I like the certificate step. It makes me smile. :)

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:23 am Leigh Evans said...

There you go. Ignore what I said. Other people have no issue with it! *grin* Knew I should have downed a cup of coffee before hitting the blog.

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:36 am Mary Stella said...

Conflict is the fuel of story . . .
and this lecture tells you how to use it. The lesson can also help in writing a first draft as long as you’re still focusing on your story and not on craft, but it’s probably most useful for analyzing a finished draft.

I think this paragraph needs more. I know conflict is important, but other than stating that it’s the fuel of the story, the current explanation doesn’t convey that it’s crucial. I also find the whole “you can use it for first draft as long as you’re doing this, but it’s more helpful for this” part confusing.

Love everything else!

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On March 22, 2012 at 8:44 pm Micki said...

Maybe there is something here, though. You could create icons for “suggested for THIS part of your writing plan.” (Bleh, vacation morning, can’t write.) But, for example, a sprout icon if this is helpful for writing the first draft. A bush icon for middle drafts. A flowering bush icon for final drafts. And maybe someone crunching on fruit if you do the businessy, “how to get published” advice.

LOL, can you see I’ve been looking at seed catalogs with icons? This may actually be too limiting because I’m sure some advice applies to all phases of the writing process. (Whoo-hoo! THAT’s what I wanted to say!)

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On March 22, 2012 at 10:19 am JLondon said...

Works for me. I’d be pushing the Paypal button.

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On March 22, 2012 at 11:00 am robena grant said...

I like it!

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On March 22, 2012 at 11:27 am oneoftheotherjennifers said...

I think it’s perfect. Enough instruction for anyone who’s feeling unsure of themselves, but not so much information as to be overwhelming.

The description is just right. I feel like I know exactly what I’ll get from the course.

Where’s that Paypal button?! ;-)

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On March 22, 2012 at 1:06 pm Skye said...

Ditto.

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On March 22, 2012 at 11:47 am Briana said...

The certificate step made me smile.

I feel like the “download your packet” part (Step 1 for How to Use) could be fleshed out. Some people might not be comfortable or familiar with the technology — maybe this is their first class — and that sounds like gobble-de-gook. Give basic advice about saving it or “right click on” this button kinds of things.

But I felt like Steps 2 and 3 could be read as condescending in tone. At least that’s sort of how it struck me. I’d probably combine those into something more like “Watch it as many times as you want/need, taking notes and stopping when you want.”

As for the Content Parts — I thought that was great. The overview of the topic was perfect and I like knowing exactly what’s included. You might want to think about letting folks know that the Notebook and Workbook portions will be available from their computer via XYZ system (microsoft, I guess?) and printable, if they want.

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On March 22, 2012 at 12:12 pm PA Wilson said...

It works for me – I heard the happy tone of voice in the instructions. But, I think the comments about tone are right. For people who haven’t been exposed to your podcasts it might come across as too much of an order than a suggestion.

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On March 22, 2012 at 12:27 pm max xavier said...

Maybe Im just ever so grateful you’e doing it, I have no criticism at all. Except that it isnt up yet.

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On March 22, 2012 at 2:21 pm Jenny said...

Okay, I edited the course descriptions. Did I fix the problems?

As far as repeating, these are all going to be on different pages and I have no idea which page people will click first. Plus the information is pretty short, so to send readers to a main page to read what I can get on a screen is just annoying for the readers. They’re all on different pages so that people don’t have to wade through a list of descriptions to find the course they want and a PayPal button. We may have that, too, but we want a single page format for each class that’s as simple as possible: here’s the course content, here’s what you get, here’s how you’d use it.

I do think the “here’s how you’d use it” is important because people need to know that it requires some work on their part to be effective, it’s not just listening to a video. Of course, they can just listen to the video, too, we’re not coming to the house and checking the work, but I think it’s an important piece of information that tells you more about what you’re getting in the package. I did add “in PDF” to the notebook and workbook lines to clear that up. I think the audio is in MP3 format and the video is . . . you know, Lani and Alastair do that stuff. I’ll ask them. I’m not even sure “MP3″ is right. But we can definitely be more specific.

The only thing that’s really going to change among the pages is the description of the course, so that’ll always be at the top.

As for tone, if I were writing this just for you all, I’d be Snarky Argh Voice, but this is going to be for people we don’t know, and in that case, it has to be a professional tone. I agree it should be “Suggested Plan of Study” rather than “Insignificant Mortal, You Shall Do This,” but I think declarative sentences are clearer than “Maybe you could do this.” Here’s what I suggest: download, listen, take notes, do exercises.

Let me know if the changes don’t fix it and I’ll hit it again.

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On March 25, 2012 at 11:57 am Mary Stella said...

I like the changes. They cleared up my confusion and, I think, made everything more direct and understandable.

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On March 22, 2012 at 2:37 pm Gin said...

It’s probably just me and my tired brain, but I kept seeing the course number for the second one (211) as the year 2011, so when you had the 211 Notebook, I read it as the year 2011 notebook and wondered why you hadn’t updated it for 2012. Well, not really, but my brain was going there. Could you make it more generic, just “class” notebook/workbook (which would also make it easier for cut and paste) or even “conflict” notebook? I like numbers, but this one threw me off. Might just be me, of course.

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On March 22, 2012 at 2:43 pm MJ said...

Exciting! Feels like the right amount of info.

Will there be one page where you can see all the courses? At least the names, and maybe the first couple lines of the content?

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On March 22, 2012 at 3:55 pm MJ said...

Oh, wait, I see…”We may have” that. Hope you do. I hate flipping back and forth among pages, trying to decide what sounds best.

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On March 22, 2012 at 6:09 pm Jenny said...

Yep.

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On March 22, 2012 at 3:32 pm KM Fawcett said...

The only thing that confused me was the prerequisite. Why is Lecture 211 listed as a prerequisite for Lecture 211? If there is no prerequisite, then shouldn’t it just say “none”? Other than that, the changes look great to me. Can’t wait. :)

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On March 22, 2012 at 6:09 pm Jenny said...

Because I was fixing things on the fly and changed the wrong thing. My screw-up.

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On March 22, 2012 at 3:34 pm RainyWeather said...

You’ll probably catch this yourself, but it’s just the kind of thing I always miss until it’s just too late (like the way I never notice my comment errors in preview, but find them glaringly obvious as soon as my comment has posted). If you stick with the decision to eliminate the fifth steps about the certificates, don’t forget to change the Lecture Packet headings to read “four parts” instead of “five.” (Maybe I should change my blog name to “Petty and Annoying Comments?” . . . Please be laughing.)

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On March 22, 2012 at 6:09 pm Jenny said...

Got it. Thank you.

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On March 22, 2012 at 3:43 pm Deborah Blake said...

I’m confused by one thing (well, by many things, really, but one thing here)–under the 211 class, you have the 211 class as a prerequisite. That’s physically impossible–you can’t take this class unless you have taken this class. Am I reading it wrong?

I like all the changes (except the no certificate…I was hoping to have a Ladies in Nightgowns certificate to hang on my wall), although I agree with Mary Stella that the Conflict class definition could be expanded. What is conflict and what does it do for your story? What areas of writing conflict might people be weak in and how will this class help them to fix those weak areas? Your current “intro” doesn’t tell people WHY they would want to take the class. (“Fuel” doesn’t help me at all. If what you mean is that conflict drives the story and moves it forward, then that’s what you need to say.)

I hope that’s helpful, and not annoying :-)

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On March 22, 2012 at 4:08 pm Leigh Evans said...

Ah Deborah, you clever thing! That’s thing I thought of this morning and promptly forgot. If Jenny says ‘prerequisite” then a few anal-retentives will feel postively compelled to contact her and ask her if they can take the course anyhow.

I know, because I’ve been that same tail-wagging, anal retentive person. I went through hoops to contact one lecturer about exactly the same question, when I should have shrugged and said, “ah, no problem”.

Other than that, I’d say it’s damn near perfect, Jenny.

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:27 pm Deborah Blake said...

Yay! I was clever! (And came up with the thing!) And yay! A surprise certificate! (And that’s why we love you, Jenny. Well, that and the brilliant books.)

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On March 22, 2012 at 6:11 pm Jenny said...

There’s still a certificate. We’re just not talking about it. It’ll be a nice surprise.

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:41 pm Thea said...

Just as it should be. Perfect. You can play with phrases like “hidden value.”

Any certificate I’ve ever received comes as a surprise.

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On March 22, 2012 at 5:01 pm Louise said...

Structure, conflict, protagonists etc. it’s all there for me.
My problem is bringing the story to a close and not having it dribble on because there are are 8 major characters who need their ends tied up. {{giggle}}

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On March 22, 2012 at 5:03 pm katyL said...

Like the revised version. Think you could still lose the first sentence in course description of 211. And not fond of the use of the word “get” in the last sentence (as in: “…the way most people get their story today”)–seems indefinite & a bit confusing. Instead maybe “frame” or “build” or “organize.” And is it people or writers? I ask because I could interpret this two ways: 1) the way most people understand stories; or 2) the way most writers structure stories.

As others said, not really understanding why the pre-requisite for course 211 is course 211.

Agreed that these need to be written for the masses. Really happy to see the course on conflict–hope it includes the conflict box. I drag that thing out during my edits every time:)

Also, someone mentioned somewhere the idea of you offering a few free courses as niceties/promotional teasers. Like that idea too. Think it would be good just to have one on general tips that would include broad things that help writers get the job done. Things like Lani’s idea re using that timing program (sorry, can’t remember name) and other tricks to keep butt in chair. Or how to survive and make the most of nano. You could even get other writer friends to contribute some ideas. You could also include tips on how to collaborate with other writers.

These tips aren’t so much about the mechanics of writing or craft, but some days they can be just as useful. And I think most of us have those kinds of days now and then. Those are the days when our closets get organized and our fridges are cleaned out:)

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On March 22, 2012 at 6:12 pm Jenny said...

There’s a free preview that talks about what’s in the course, but that’s mainly so you can make sure that our voices don’t give you epileptic fits, there’s no real education in there. Otherwise, everything costs $10.

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On March 22, 2012 at 8:57 pm Micki said...

I know this is extra work, but I do think it would be nice if the free preview also includes the notebook and workbook, so people could get a feel for it. From my understanding, it’s basically a syllabus . . . but it’s nice to have the teacher explain how to use the syllabus, and we could still be taking notes and everything. The primary point is so that your beta (gamma?) readers can say how it all works, without you giving away any writing content that you want to sell. For Luddites (like me), this free sample could be an eye-opener on how to work on the computer (opening up windows, how to edit a PDF without ruining it, etc.). BUT, it’s free content, so don’t go too overboard. (So easy to go overboard . . . .)

I wanted to mention one other thing: I actually like being told to watch it first without taking notes. They do this in yoga videos sometimes, and it’s so important, because you are so busy *doing* you forget to “be aware”. I also tell my EFL kids they should listen the first time, then do the activity on the second run-through (and double-check on the third). Otherwise, they have their pencils out, try to do two things at once, and wind up saying, “Oh, English is *hard*” in their best Japanese Barbie voices.

It’s good to remind the person to slow down and LISTEN to this course they’ve paid for. They don’t HAVE to, of course. But it’d be more educational if they did it that way.

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On March 22, 2012 at 6:32 pm Lola Sharp said...

Looks good to me. I’m ready to start. :)

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On March 22, 2012 at 7:30 pm Jan Timmons said...

I like your revisions. And it seems as though you or Lani will flesh out the how-to part of
1. The Slideshow Lecture with voiceover (podcast? YouTube? etc.
2. The Audio of the voiceover alone. (same nitpicky query)
The editor part of me likes to know what platform and whether I’ll have the necessary software (as in, no Adobe Flash for Macs).
Good work!

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:06 pm Jenny said...

Yep. I hadn’t thought of that, but Lani and Alastair will know what to write.
Actually, I should just ask them that now.

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On March 22, 2012 at 7:35 pm Jan Timmons said...

Oh, and definitely declarative, active verbs. I’d vote for including your humor, too. I think this reads well:
‘Here’s what I suggest: download, listen, take notes, do exercises.’
Perfect instructions. Love the brevity.

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On March 22, 2012 at 9:48 pm Terrie said...

I don’t have suggestions about the description because it looks good to me. I liked the suggestion on how to use the material (watch first, etc.) with your noting both which steps to take when and why it would be useful to follow that process.

Making sure it will run on a Mac would make me happy, too.

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On March 23, 2012 at 12:24 am Jenny said...

Squalor on the river has about six Macs right now. We are totally Apple here.

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On March 23, 2012 at 6:39 am JaneB said...

Macs run Flash; it’s iPads that don’t – but I’m sure you know that and will be avoiding it anyway.

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On March 23, 2012 at 1:06 pm Jenny said...

Simple. The only animation I’m doing is in Keynote. I’m going for early Monty Python animation.

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On March 23, 2012 at 7:49 am Leigh Evans said...

I’m getting kind of excited about this. Something to look forward to after April 1st.

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On March 23, 2012 at 9:13 am Louisa said...

I want the Paypal button now. I want it all now. Sigh. Okay, I’ll wait. But I still want it. Please (said nicely like I’m supposed to).

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On March 23, 2012 at 11:08 am Lola said...

Pre-requisite: Lecture 103: Introduction to Conflict

I’m wondering if having the pre-requisite is a good decision. There will be some advanced writers taking the courses and you are not offering personal one-on-one feedback. I think you could suggest taking Lecture 103, but I wouldn’t make it mandatory. Let them make that decision and give everyone the ability to pick and choose which classes they want to spend their $10 bucks.

my .02 cents.

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On March 23, 2012 at 1:06 pm Jenny said...

We can’t make it mandatory, and I can suggest they take it, but the fact is, no matter how advanced you are, you won’t understand what I’m talking about in later lectures if you don’t have that one. It would be like reading chapter two in a book. So if people take the second course without the first, and then say, “But I don’t understand this part,” and I say, “Oh, that was in 103,” and they say, “Well, why didn’t somebody TELL me . . .” So it’s really more than a suggestion. I can put, “If you want to understand 211, you’re going to need 103″ but “pre-requisite” seems tidier.

Oh, and it’s not for everything. I think Lani’s are all stand-alone, but I’m not sure.

Edited to add:
I added this to the description:

*Note on pre-requisites: You can take any lecture at any time, nobody’s checking. But there are particular concepts that are taught in lower level classes that we will take for granted that you know when you sign up for a later level class that has a pre-requisite. For example, any course that says “Pre-requisite: 103″ will be an extension of 103 and will not explain those terms and concepts in detail again. So if you skip the pre-req and take the more advanced course, it may be confusing and frustrating. This applies to all the pre-requisites listed. Please note that not all courses have pre-reqs.

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On March 23, 2012 at 1:58 pm Lola said...

Thanks for putting in the note on pre-requisites. Maybe it’s just me, but I felt that the pre-requisite (without the explanation) might put some people off from trying out your course, like it was an obligation-sign-on-the-dotted-line commitment. Other people here might disagree but if I didn’t know you and didn’t know how well you teach craft I would think of it as trying to get more money out of me and would be put off by it. The explanation helps.

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On March 23, 2012 at 4:09 pm Jenny said...

Thanks for pointing out the problem.

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On March 24, 2012 at 8:12 am Diane/ TT said...

OK, I’m going to be picky (sorry). 1) there is no hyphen in prerequisite. 2) you say that conflict is the fuel to story; Lani and Alastair say that it is the story’s engine. Admittedly, an engine without fuel is pretty useless, except for dropping on people, while fuel without an engine will blaze up but not take you anywhere. So, as a metaphor junkie, which is conflict? Is this just a symptom of having grown up with an engineer? Should I seek professional help? Thank you.

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On March 24, 2012 at 2:56 pm Jenny said...

Oh, hell I knew there was no hyphen, I just like it better with it. I’ll take it out.

I think as long as you don’t switch metaphors in the middle of something, you’re good. If I’m using both fuel and engine, that’s bad, but if I use fuel and Lani uses engine and Krissie uses heart, all in different pieces, we’re good.

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On March 24, 2012 at 10:14 am Deborah Blake said...

It would probably be good to have them all match, at least.

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On March 24, 2012 at 9:05 pm Katrina Snow said...

I haven’t checked in for a while and am so excited to discover you’re working on these courses. I’ve always enjoyed your workshops and glean all sorts of useful info from them.

Regarding your question on the course descriptions, I think the one for the conflicts course is too short. It talks more about which draft to apply it to than what the course is about. Also I’m confused as to what conflict lock means. I understand I’d learn what that means during the course, but as someone who has taken tons of workshops, part of what I look for in a description is to see if it covers something I’ve already learned or offers me something new. Of course, I know you would bring new insights into any topic, but to someone investigating your courses, I think a bit more information would be helpful.

The description for course 211 is more descriptive, which I think is good.

I also think it’s important to include the length of the audio/video course. I don’t recall seeing that mentioned, but I’d want to know if it was 30 minutes vs 90 minutes, or whatever.

Good luck with it. I’m looking forward to checking out the courses!

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On March 25, 2012 at 11:10 am Jenny said...

Good points.
We’ll know how long they are once we get them recorded (g). We’re shooting for 45 minutes.

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