Self-Publishing and Editing
May112011
Karen B asked some questions about editing and self-publishing in the comments to Part One of the Crusie-Samuel chat, and Barbara and I have answers. Maybe not THE answers, but good answers none-the-less.
What is it that makes a good editor? or a bad one?
Jenny: A good editor is a good reader, somebody who loves story and can tell when something’s going wrong in it. She’ll tell you what’s wrong with it without offering a solution. Saying, “This story is slow” is good, especially if she points out the particular places it’s slow. Saying, “This story is slow so you should cut the second act and add a car chase” is bad. She’s invading your story to rewrite it. That’s your job.
Barbara: A good editor has a way of uncovering a writer’s gifts and flaws, and figuring out ways to help her maximize the first and minimize the second. She understands structure and pacing and can spot when you’re out of rhythm with either. She also knows enough to say there’s a problem, but respects you enough to let you figure out how to fix it.
A bad editor can’t tell the difference between the way she would tell the story and the way you want to tell it. She thinks her way is right and your way is wrong, and doesn’t allow for discussion. A bad editor might also be unable to tell when things are not working, or doesn’t know enough to say what the problem is.
How can you tell as a new writer?
Jenny: You can’t. You can develop a feel for when somebody is making your story stronger and when somebody’s just meddling in it, but until you know what your story is, until you understand your work well enough to protect it, it’s very hard to tell what’s improving your story and what’s violating it.
Can a good critique group substitute for an editor for someone going for e-publishing?
Barbara: I wouldn’t say it’s impossible for a critique group to perform that function. I absolutely trust my friend Christie Ridgway when she reads for me, and in fact I trust her so much that I try to lean on her sparingly. That is one trouble with a critique group–most of them would not have the time to deal with manuscript after manuscript in the way an editor would do it. I also worry about “group mind,” which is the danger in any critique group.
Jenny: No. A good beta reader can come very close, though. A critique group is multiple voices with multiple approaches. It can be very useful for getting a global view or your story, for pinpointing where the big flaws are. But a good editor is focused both on the individual elements and the story as a whole. She understands who you are as a writer and respects that. She’s not just critiquing your work, she’s conceptualizing it, seeing it a single idea, thinking how she can present that single concept to a reader. She synthesizes things. The best beta readers can do that (beta readers being individual readers you trust to give you unsparing feedback while respecting your voice and vision). The best beta I know is Molly Haselhorst, who should do it for money, she’s that good. She can see relationships among story elements while keeping a visceral reaction to the story itself. But pretty much every beta reader I go to is a great reader first; that’s the most important feedback: Is this a good read?
15 Comments to 'Self-Publishing and Editing'
On May 11, 2011 at 3:35 am Slave Driver said...
Thanks again for the information. Great blog, ladies!
On May 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm KarenB said...
I’m blushing a bit with a little inner *sqeeee! Jennie answered my questions!!!* I am a voracious reader, with not a speck of fiction writing talent in me, so it’s more of an academic interest for me, but fascinating nonetheless. And thank you for the link on the last post to publishing costs. That helps clarify my thinking on buying books – hardcover, paperback or electronic.
On May 11, 2011 at 1:45 pm Sure Thing said...
I’m with you on a good beta reader. It can be time consuming and I failed miserably at my first try at it. Time permitting, I hope to be one because I *can* enjoy a story and think that I can continue to do so while evaluating one.
On May 11, 2011 at 1:47 pm Bob Avey said...
A critique group can be good for certain things — getting the big picture, helping with the flow — but such a group is no replacement for an editor.
On May 11, 2011 at 3:55 pm KM Fawcett said...
Jenny and Barbara, How many beta readers do you think would be good for a new author to have? I’m getting ready to send my WIP to some betas before giving it to my agent. I’m thinking if I have 3 betas then I’d be better able to discern if their feedback is a true book problem or personal taste. (did that make sense?)
On May 11, 2011 at 4:25 pm Jenny said...
Yep, that makes sense. Too many betas can be confusing, although it really isn’t how many, it’s how good they are.
On May 11, 2011 at 5:05 pm CrankyOtter said...
It’s quite interesting to me that you specify not offering solutions. Just about anyone in the news these days who points out an issue or flaw in something is immediately asked, “well, how would you fix it?” and when they don’t have an answer, their concern is dismissed. I think we vastly undervalue the ability and of people to identify problems and the value that adds to our experience. Often the person who solves the problem gets the Nobel (or Pulizter?) prize, but if someone else hadn’t asked the question, they would never have known to solve it in the first place.
I see change happening when someone starts observing that things don’t have to stay the way they are, identify what it is that is most bothersome, formulates a way to communicate that idea, gets people thinking about what causes it, how it can be contained in the short term and how it can be fixed in the long term, then identifying multiple solutions, rating the solutions to tease out the better ones, then fixing on what are hopefully the best, or at least the least unacceptable, solution(s). And each one of those vitally important steps may be done by a different person or a different group of people. But who gets all the credit?
It seems to me that editors fall in the early-mid stages of that process and through cultural conditioning it’s probably really, really hard for them to NOT offer solutions. As a person who is quick to offer solutions, this is blowing my mind a little.
On May 11, 2011 at 5:56 pm Jordan said...
Interesting, what makes a good editor makes a good teacher.
On May 11, 2011 at 6:58 pm Jackie said...
We are too quick to take the first solution that comes along. Also, if we only start asking questions when we have what we think are answers, we only have one answer – not necessarily the best one. Conversation takes time. And give and take. The last 3 posts gave some great examples of how one could converse constructively. Not to mention the comments.
On May 11, 2011 at 11:45 pm Moth said...
Maybe somebody else already mentioned this but I couldn’t find the original thread to check. So I apologize if this is a repost but I was re-reading Fast Women today and you DID describe the cookies as star-shaped at least once:
“[Suze] poured him a cup of tea and set out the plate of broken cookies she kept behind the counter for him, and he picked up half a STAR and nodded.” This is page 273 of my copy which has a white cover and a tea cup with lipstick on it. I knew I remembered the cookies being stars.
I’m such a dork that when I got to this page I stood up, turned on the comp and came straight here to post about it.
On May 12, 2011 at 8:38 am Jenny said...
We love dorks here. Dorks R Us.
On May 12, 2011 at 1:10 pm Molly said...
Oh, wow. Thank you, Jenny. You made my day. (Year, even.)
On May 12, 2011 at 2:50 pm robena grant said...
This is great. Thanks.
I agree with Jordan, the same qualities that make for a good editor, and a teacher, also make for a good parent. A nudge in the right direction, and then step back.
On May 13, 2011 at 4:30 pm Susan Berger said...
Can’t wait to try things with an editor on a novel. Right now, my critique group keeps me going. There are 4 of us, and the only group mind we share in the Pen and Ink Blog. I have noted we all tend to focus on and catch different things in the progress of a manuscript, so if I hear the same comment from Hilde, Lupe and Kris, I KNOW I have a problem.
On July 21, 2011 at 2:40 pm ruthie said...
I’m very late with this, so no one may see it, but here’s my take. When I edit for another writer, I may make suggestions, but I throw out a bunch of them. My friends are confident enough in their skills to tell me to go take a hike, but many of them like the suggestions. Not because they’re going to take them, but because they trigger the right ideas in their minds – sort of a little nudge that gets them back on track.
I have to admit that in a critique group, an informal one, I’m probably going to go with what I like which may not be what the author wants. So, I tend to stay away from that situation just because I can’t keep my emotional distance. Unfortunately, in most critique groups there are the folks that are like me, but they don’t see that as a problem. Unless you know your group’s strengths and weaknesses, it’s risky to let them stand in for an emotionally neutral editor.