Deal-Breakers: A Story of Disappointment
Apr42011
While I was sick, I sampled some books by new authors who had been recommended to me. I love the iPad for many reasons, but one of the big ones is that I can hit “sample” in the bookstore and read the first pages. If I finish those and really don’t care, I stop there. If I have to know what happens next, I hit “buy.” (It’s a good training tool for writers, too: don’t spend your intro establishing things because it’s action and anticipation that make people read on. My old creative writing mentor had a good exercise for that: “Suppose people could only buy your stories one sentence at a time. If the read the first sentence, would they want to buy the next one?”) Most of the books, I did not hit “buy.” But then I hit one that had a wonderful voice, clearly a smart, funny writer, and I hit that button. I did it even though it began with a prologue which for me is almost always a deal-breaker. I just wanted more of that great voice.
So now you’re probably asking, “Who is it?” but I’m not going to tell you because she blew it and I don’t trash other writers. Her voice was incredibly lively and involving all the way through, her characterizations were wonderful, her sense of family and community strong, plus she’s funny as hell: I laughed out loud several times. But when I closed the book, I was annoyed. Why?
1. That damn prologue, like all prologues, was unnecessary. Prologues are lazy writing, the writer telling the reader stuff she needs to know before the story begins when all the reader wants is the story. Everything she said in that prologue she released later in the course of the real story. So she wasted my time and a lot of trees because she didn’t have faith in her story-telling abilities (which turns out to be justified, just not in that particular area).
2. The start of the romance was incredibly contrived, so contrived that the first person narrator had to keep explaining why it had happened. If you feel the need to explain the motivation for something in your story, chances are explaining it isn’t going to fix the problem.
3. The main plot was a string of pearls, particularly the romance in which nothing happens except the heroine looks at the hero and thinks he’s hot over and over and over again and finally something happens and the heroine makes her move and then BAM they’re in love. A good story needs some arc and escalation and a good romance does, too. Her writing was so strong I kept reading anyway, but the same old same old over and over again got exasperating. If her characters hadn’t been so funny and her very good subplots hadn’t escalated the way her main plot didn’t, I’d have quit reading.
4. She had an epilogue where the heroine gives birth. If she’d started with that, I’d have thrown the book against the internet wall and never hit the “Buy” button.
I’ll keep reading samples from this author because she’s a really good writer with a terrific voice who can write the hell out of comedy using characters that feel very real. That’s good stuff. But the bad plotting is a deal-breaker for me.
So what’s the deal-breaker for you? When everything else in a novel is great, what’s the thing that will make you walk away from a book and never look back?
231 Comments to 'Deal-Breakers: A Story of Disappointment'
On April 4, 2011 at 6:09 pm Penelope Q said...
Mine is more ideological than craft(ilogical?), but I hate, hate, hate when the heroine has to give up a significant part of who she is in order to finally be happy at the end of the book. Strong woman + dashing man = woman who must surrender herself to be with dashing man? Not only do I hate the message, but it feels incredibly fake to me. I don’t know a single woman who would say, “Yeah, I know he’s a domineering cad, but he’s great in bed, so it’s okay.” I’m all for relationships that transform already strong, yet flawed, characters into better versions of themselves, but glorifying a relationship that asks a strong leading lady to become more of the woman a man wants her to be, not so much.
On April 5, 2011 at 2:51 pm Annamal said...
This!
I’m ok with two people changing while they get closer but if the change is all one way or deeply imbalanced then it annoys the hell out of me.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:39 pm Jo Vandewall said...
Mine are plot holes. I just finished the first book of a series where I love the main characters, but the author is pretending that the villain can’t figure out something that’s blatantly obvious. Also characters who have a change of outlook with no catalyst for said change. Drives me bananas.
If you want a good book, try Mira Lyn Kelly’s Wild Fling or Wedding Ring (I know – terrible title) but laugh out loud funny. In fact, parts of this reminded me of your early writing.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:55 pm Jenny said...
You can’t always blame the author for titles. Sometimes Marketing steps in. That’s how I ended up with Manhunting and What the Lady Wants, two awful awful titles. The originals were Keeping Kate and Whatever Maebelle Wants, not great but miles better.
On April 4, 2011 at 6:38 pm Kathie said...
I read a book where the “hero” pulls the heroine (a grown woman, not a kid) off her horse and spanks her because she took off on the horse and rode recklessly or some such . . . I’ve never read anything by that author again.
On April 4, 2011 at 6:48 pm Jackie said...
My standards are lower. If I have a hard time staying awake, I’m done. It’s got to be believable. Or at least internally consistent. See low standards. I read everything. Cereal boxes. Technical manuals. Textbooks. I use those as soporifics.
On April 4, 2011 at 6:51 pm Jackie said...
Oh, but I don’t buy them unless I see signs of good writing and character. So new authors are either loaners or library books. And I lend out my best. I like handing out Crusies to friends.
On April 4, 2011 at 7:48 pm Skye said...
Yeah, that one would break it for me. Hero treating heroine like a child, spanking (unless in the context of erotic spanking) — nope.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:21 pm Jennifer B said...
I know exactly which book that is and that scene has always bothered me, too. Especially when she *thanks* him! Liked the author in high school – haven’t read her in decades.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:00 am LizC said...
I think I read that book although I can’t recall the name of it now. Either that or there is more than one book where that happens because it just sounds really familiar. Not that I would be at all surprised if there’s more than one book where that happens.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:51 am wonderer said...
I wonder if you’re thinking of the same book I am! Once I’ve gotten past the first few pages, I very rarely stop reading a book, but that was one of them. (Though I will admit to skimming the rest of the book to find out what happened after that point.) I won’t read that author again either.
On April 4, 2011 at 6:47 pm Jessie said...
Your analytical skills are great so you know what annoys you about a book. Frequently, I just get tired of it and walk away.
But there are several writers who I used to read that I no longer read. First I stopped buying the books and waited until it was available from the library (and I did not put a hold on it to hurry up the waiting process). Then I started skipping over sections. After that I reach a stage of revulsion that I cannot even read earlier stuff by the same author (because really once you figure out the evolution of the writing voice, you can see what you ended up loathing) and I get rid of my stash of that authors books. And I never touch that author’s stuff again even if the author is supposedly going in a new direction.
The one thing I most dislike is where the plot virtually disappears and becomes merely a mechanism of moving from one sex scene to another. I know that sex sells and that there are people who greatly enjoy a good sex scene. The problem being that when the plot is subsumed to the sex, the sex is frequently the same scenes that appeared in earlier books where in the earlier books it had the charm of being novel. Even in novelist I who I regularly read, I have been known to skip the sex scenes because I want to know what happens next. I am not opposed to sex scenes. Sometimes they lose my interest though.
Another problem I have comes in books that are a series. Not all series but some. The character is doing the same thing over and over again. A large part of the introduction is rehashing everything that goes before. The same gags keep reappearing – particularly if they weren’t funny in the first place: i.e., The novelty has worn off and its time to get a new plot and a new character.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:13 pm Jackie said...
Oh, yeah. The whole series thing and carrying the weight of the series so you can read them stand alone. I’m OK with the solution of keeping it self contained, I’m not OK with the info dumps so you know everything that happened before so you get why whatever happened of whoever said. That would be the only reasonable reason I can think of for a prologue. A “we left our heroes here, and now onto the story….”
On April 5, 2011 at 1:01 am Brandy said...
Oh My! The sex scenes.. To be honest Crusie is one of the only authors that I actually read the sex scenes, I skip them. Your absolutely right, all the sex is strung together and the plot is nearly always lost. I guess that’s why I tend to fly through most ‘trashy romance novels’. I agree with the others, I quit reading once they get too predictable. Again, Crusie, is one of the few that keep it fresh. Any suggestions about other authors that get it right?
On April 4, 2011 at 6:59 pm Anna Cowan said...
Heroes who chuckle (patronising) and heroines who go misty-eyed (I really don’t mind tears, but something about the suggestion that a woman is melting at the eyes – that though she’s been so strong up until now, her basest feminine urges have just taken over – erks me).
On April 4, 2011 at 7:08 pm Diana said...
I really liked this science fiction series, but my problem in the last book that I read was… You thought that the main series character had amnesia, but it was later revealed that the main character presented throughout the entire book was not the main series character at all! but another person that shared similar traits. I hope this makes sense.
I was so angry that I haven’t bought another book from this person again, even in a different series. My husband read the series too, and felt the same way.
On April 4, 2011 at 7:27 pm P. Kirby said...
The first thing that comes to mind is the N. Sparks novel, The Choice, where the TSTL heroine accuses the hero’s dog of raping her precious little virginal dog. Well, I exaggerate, but basically the stupid twit didn’t bother to spay her dog (or keep it in the yard), and when Fluffy turns up preggers, she blames the hero’s dog. (The hero’s dog is neutered, BTW, and incapable of teh sex.) Idiot heroine spends a lot of time opining her dog’s lost innocence; describes her dog as being “soiled.” Book meet wall. Thud.
On April 5, 2011 at 5:03 pm L M Bricker said...
That’s one of the most horrific things I have ever heard…
On April 4, 2011 at 7:49 pm Clever Cherry said...
1 If I’m reading a book in a genre other than romance, if the author throws in a romance and doesn’t do it well – bye bye.
2 I understand the whole keeping throwing drama at your protagonist to create conflict, but in one particular series of books I won’t name, the poor protagonist had NO soft place to land ever at any time. NO. Again, bye, bye.
3 I don’t like reading weak plots. I’ll put up with a lot if the plot is strong. In one series I can think of, the protagonist is lovable but the author purposefully doesn’t arc her. Still her plots are strong so I keep reading and enjoying.
4 This is just a me particular dislike but I don’t like vampire books, no matter how well they’re written.
5 In fact, I don’t like books which grab onto the latest fad to keep from using any writing skills. For example, girls kissing girls as a turn on for boys is overdone and tired.
On April 4, 2011 at 7:52 pm Carol Anne said...
I’ll just click the check mark button on the comments. Many things make me throw a book in the garbage.
On April 4, 2011 at 7:53 pm Skye said...
I have many deal-breakers involving romances, partly because my first intro of them were Harlequins written in the late 70s and early 80s when uber-dominating heroes were the trend. I threw more than one of my mother’s books across the room. (It’s okay — she never knew.)
But I’ve read lots of YA and kids’ fantasy books and the biggest deal-breaker for me is where at the end of the story or series (it’s usually a series), the kids have to forget everything. For some contrived reason. So hell, might never have written the book because the changes in the characters have no reason for happening, or else they never happened.
**spoiler**
That’s why I love the first 2 or 3 Susan Cooper “Dark is Rising” books but threw the last one against the wall. Absolutely. No. Reason. For. That.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:26 pm Becky said...
I can see why that would be annoying in general, but the same thing absolutely broke my heart when it happened to Donna at the end of Doctor Who series 4. Partially because I love Donna and partly because the Doctor remembered and it left him a little more broken than he’d been before.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:03 pm CrankyOtter said...
Deal breakers for me: breaking rules the author set themselves. If a character is going to do something 3 pages from now, don’t tell me it’s impossible, tell me it’s unlikely, difficult, not expected, hasn’t been done before, etc… but don’t make a rule then break it without a very, very good reason.
Another: destroying a character’s friendship and support network without reestablishing a new one for them (which may only partly mitigate the damage to the HEA). Books that fail for this are the Mr. Perfect and Last Man Standing. I don’t trust those authors to create a future for their characters that isn’t hellish and grim.
I actually read a book last week that fits your number 3. If I’d never read your blog, I might have felt the lack of escalation, but now I can explain why it was rather unsatisfying.
Basically the couple met and fell for each other pretty quickly but had very good, real non-love reasons for not entering a relationship, at least publicly. But at no point in the book did the heroine pass “the point of no return” where she was forever changed by the presence of the hero. Even at the very, very end when she thought otherwise, I still a sense that she could happily go back to her old life. She was unable to get back her pre-story-opening old life without a husband and he was the best of the lot, but she could easily have chosen anyone and lived a perfectly fine if unexciting existence without him to achieve her primary goal. She could easily have gone back to where she was at the beginning of the story. The fact that she found “the one” was satisfying only in that you knew they’d be good for each other. OTOH, The hero had a few things go along the way where he couldn’t turn back and be what/where he was before he met the heroine. She was essential to him and he was exciting and pleasant for her.
It also irked me that the events that most changed each of the characters actually happened before the story. It didn’t need a prologue necessarily, but it was weird to have the start of the journey be told in retrospect simply because each character had a major, “can’t recover from this and be who I was yesterday” change that happened off screen, then a bunch of less meaningful events to cement the change in place.
There were a lot of likeable things about the characters, about their friendships, about the writer’s voice and such. Apparently enough people were snowed by that to nominate it for an award. But the primary external plot climax was underwhelming and awkward, some of the secondary characters are there to set up the next story and not entirely necessary for this one, and the heroine really didn’t grow except in the boudior. I almost gave up on it several times, yet inexplicably felt like I needed more story when it was over.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:03 pm CrankyOtter said...
sorry about the length. I meant to blog about that but haven’t yet.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:13 pm Julia Tasker said...
Don’t kill the family pet! I hate that. Also uber alpha males- I would much rather smack them in the head with a hammer than fall for them. And heroines who are ‘heartbreakingly beautiful’- they don’t need novels written about them.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm Jennifer B said...
I stop reading if rape is a plot device in a romance novel. It happens in real life and is horrible. Don’t tell me that the hero raping the heroine means he loves her.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:54 pm Jackie said...
Oh yeah, the whole rape thing. I am glad to say it’s pretty much not in fashion any more. Now all we need to do is make it unfashionable in real life.
I like less and less the whole “Does S/he mean yes when s/he says no”. I know people have a right to change their minds. I still find the whole thing tiresome. And more importantly, dangerous.
On April 4, 2011 at 8:54 pm Mary Stella said...
I stopped reading a book last week without finishing it. The book had all of the things that could have made an exciting story. Great, real, how-the-hell-will-they-resolve-this conflict, external and internal forces ratcheting the tension, intriguing character traits, strong plot. I was ready to l-o-v-e this book. Unfortunately, all of the terrific character potential dissolved under the constant barrage of: “She’s so beautiful. I can’t stop thinking about her even though her family is my enemy. She’s so beautifull. I can’t stop jeopardizing my entire mission because I want her.” “He’s so manly and handsome, I must throw myself at him so he’ll notice me.” “He’s so manly and handsome. I must act like a ninny, even though I’m smarter than the average Medieval Scottish noble lass.”
Argh.
On April 4, 2011 at 9:40 pm Katie said...
I’m getting awfully tired of the Big Misunderstanding. I suspect it’s because I went through a phase a couple summers ago where I read virtually everything a particular romance novelist had ever written in about 3 weeks (my mom had a lot of her books on the shelf and I was bored). I then noticed that every single one of her plots was either based on a misunderstanding or a lie, or one occurred later in the book to drive the characters apart. Also, they got progressively less believable with her later novels. Another one is heroes that rape the heroine. No exceptions. Oh, and has anyone else encountered obnoxious metaphors in sex scenes? Stuff like “her body wept feminine tears of desire”? I can never decide if I want to laugh or throw the book across the room.
For mysteries, I don’t like the incredibly complex murder plans, especially when there is no evidence to speak of and yet the detective figures it out anyway. This may just be an Agatha Christie overdose on my part.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:17 am lee said...
This – If they would just TALK TO EACHOTHER the plot would be DONE. That isn’t a plot, it is bad communication skills. This is, in part, why Othello pisses me off so badly.
On April 5, 2011 at 2:22 pm Rosa said...
I really hate the “escalating lie” plot. It seems like it’s a sitcom thing more than a novel thing, but it happens in book sometime too.
Seriously: unless you are an undercover cop or a spy, at the point you are tempted to do something ridiculous to cover a minor lie, instead just shrug, smile, and say, “I have somethign really embarrassing to tell you…”
On April 4, 2011 at 9:51 pm Catherine said...
Dithering. I dislike it in text, I find it annoying in real life. Deal breaker.
On April 4, 2011 at 10:25 pm Bharti said...
My deal breakers are:
1. The heroine or hero staying away for the other person’s own good. Unless it is done really well, all that whining can get annoying.
2. When smart women do stupid things. Maybe the author is trying show the character’s vulnerability, but often it makes the character ridiculous.
3. The perfect hero and heroine. Who the heck cares if a beautiful, thin, rich, smart, confident, successful, woman falls in love with a gorgeous, smart, confident, successful, (but edgy), well-endowed guy. I recently read a book like this and it was like the author was scrambling for a plot for these perfect people. Ugh.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:34 am Anna Cowan said...
totally agree with your second point. I hate HATE it when the heroine decides she’s sick of waiting around letting other people control events (so far so good) but whatever action she takes ends up getting in the way of the hero’s perfectly-orchestrated plan and puts them all in worse trouble. Why oh why oh why.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:36 am Anna Cowan said...
the first point, too. The kind of love I like reading about is selfish.
On April 4, 2011 at 10:58 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...
I have lots of books to read – can’t resist many freebies at RWA and once a year or so I’ll enter a Harlequin sweepstateks and get a few “free” books. I give them 2 chapters no matter how poorly they start – I won’t go on to Chapter 3 unless I’m engaged. The rejects go to charity or the used book store.
My husband reads a lot of romance but there is a plot device that drives him crazy. He doesn’t like it if the heroine has a grandmother or an older friend that gives her lots of advice (we’re talking GOOD advice). He thinks these older women are a waste of time.You find this in both contemporary and historical books.
It’s surprising how many books I enjoy that this occurs in.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:16 pm Jennifer said...
If an author abuses children or animals, I will stop reading immediately and go cleanse my soul by re-reading a good, healthy, happy book. And I will never, ever touch another book by that author.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:19 pm Deb Z. said...
I don’t mind finding typos, but I do mind finding errors. I was reading a book last week that took place in two different periods of time and at one point a character who isn’t introduced until the latter time period was referenced in the earlier period. If I caught it, you’d think an editor would, too.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:49 pm Office Wench Cherry said...
There is a book by a well-known mystery writer where the main character has green eyes on the left hand page and on the facing, right hand page has blue eyes. There’s no excuse for that.
On April 6, 2011 at 12:25 am toni said...
Just wanted to mention that sometimes, bizarro things happen. I got galleys back where a character named Sean was randomly re-named Suds. I don’t know how you get “Suds” out of Sean, and it was perfectly fine in the copy edits. There were several other nightmarish random things changed (sometimes into gibberish, sometimes just random truncation of sentences and sometimes, changes in actual facts of the characters). It took 3 of us to proofread it and fix and and I still shudder when I think about that book, afraid to look at it to see what we missed.
Then, I started thinking about a character named Suds and it sort of cracked me up and he came to life and ended up being an important real character in the third book. So, you know, lemonade.
On April 6, 2011 at 2:35 am Jenny said...
I was just reading Bet Me in the eBook edition. There are some changes in there, like “Norma” for “Noni” that I do not understand. Makes me crazy.
Although now I’m putting a character named Suds in the WIP. He’s dating somebody named Toni . . .
On April 6, 2011 at 9:52 am toni said...
Now *that* is perfect.
On April 6, 2011 at 5:38 pm glee said...
Ah, translation by iPhone spell-checker. I an just imagine how frustrating that would be in a book; it’s barely tolerable when I’m trying to send a text message.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:22 pm piper said...
I dislike series that repeat the same story over and over again. I won’t mention any names (sadly) but the same events occur to the same people. Yeah it was cute the first three books but by the time we got to the 6th or 11th, I want her to pick a man and stick with him and to stop blowing up vehicles, etc, etc.
Then there was another series that I quit reading when I got tired of being depressed because the characters were all depressed because nothing nice ever happened to them, and if it did you had to hold onto your pants because you knew that it was all going to blow up.
Other than that I cannot stand poorly written books with sappy/crappy dialogue. Hello, what man ever says to his wife “my life would be a barren landscape, with nothing to bring me joy if you aren’t there to share it with me” Gag. You know, in real life, he’ll get over you and move on. We all do in some form or other. Yeah I know, it’s romance and he’s supposed to love you for ever, but I don’t have an insulin needle handy to save me from that sugar overload. Perhaps if it were more realistically written ” Damn, I love you and I want to be with you” at least doesn’t make me want to hurl.
I can’t remember which books I was reading but it was a series. I found it incredibly tedious that in every book she (the author) felt obliges to recap how and why we got to this point (I think it was about vampires and we had to know exactly why they aren’t the vampires of old, etc etc. Maybe if I was only reading one it wouldn’t have been so bad, but it was there in every flippin’ book…..
Sorry, probably not what you were asking.
On April 5, 2011 at 1:10 am brandy said...
One of the main things that I hate in a book is a bad ending… I read a book last week that had potential. The heroine was strong and the hero was too, but about chapter three it jumped to the past when they met and didn’t get back to the present until two chapters from the end. Next thing you know it’s the end of the book and she’s marrying the guy and going… “I hope he doesn’t care that I had a baby and didn’t tell him it’s his” and that was the end. Book Meet Wall–>THUMP
My husband just looked at me like I was crazy.. I can take a lot in a book.. but not even an ending.. seriously?!?!?! Usually I just mumble to myself something along the lines of “stupid author, why would they print this??”
sigh
On April 5, 2011 at 1:06 pm Diane (TT) said...
I read a book very like that – and it didn’t end because it was, essentially, half a book. They issued the second book the following month. Don’t know if it’s the same one, but that was the excuse in this case.
On April 7, 2011 at 12:33 am misspiggy don'twannabe said...
Years ago (in the 70′s) I used to read Ludlum – I read many of them even though I hated the Ostermann weekend. In the early 80′s the first Bourne book came out – after investing lots of time and energy in the book IT DIDN’T END. I’ve refused to read anything else by him (or his ghosts) and I wouldn’t go to any of the movies. The rest of my family loves the movies so avoiding them is often difficult but I perservere.
On April 7, 2011 at 1:58 am Jenny said...
The Bourne movies are great and, as I understand it, aren’t terribly like the books. Give them a shot.
On April 5, 2011 at 1:45 am k said...
I know the vampire series you’re talking about and i agree with you. The recap in every book was very tedious. It’s actually the reason i stopped reading the books of this particular series.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:43 pm Susan said...
Along with the Big Misunderstanding is the Lack of Communication. The number of problems that could have been avoided if the H/h had just TALKED to each other. Although sometimes that is the basis for the plot, which is also kinda pathetic.
On a different note, someone here on Argh a while back mentioned the Brandy Alexander mysteries by Shelly Fredman as a great read. I just finished the series tonight and it is fantastic! So a big thank-you to whoever recommended it!
On April 5, 2011 at 6:22 am Clever Cherry said...
Susan – That was me. I love those books. I’m blogging about them on April 15th and Shelly is giving a free copy of the first book in the series, No Such Thing As A Secret, to some lucky commenter.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:48 pm CG said...
I tend to finish all books, even if I have to skim, just so I can close the story in my head. However, I will not read anything else by the same author if their characters are flat or completely stupid and I really hate the “big misunderstanding”.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:12 am followingtheroad said...
I finish every book too. It’s a curse. I just can’t let it go, no matter how irritating it may be.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:32 am Carrie said...
I am the same way. Hope springs eternal.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:56 pm KellyJ said...
Two things make me throw books against walls: character violations and awkward writing. If a character does something I know she wouldn’t do, something that violates who she is, that drives me crazy. Then if the story is good but the writing is just awkward (cheesy or unrealistically formal dialogue, repetitive phrases, boring prose), it makes me just want to cry. Good stories deserve good writing, and good editing. Of course, it’s easy for me to say that since I am not yet a published author, and if I do publish a book there will no doubt be readers who think my characters have been violated by poorly written prose.
On April 4, 2011 at 11:57 pm followingtheroad said...
1. Stories where the hero is supposedly completely head-over-heels for the heroine but never mentions anything other than her boobs/eyes/hair/goddess skin as why he loves her.
2. Stories where the heroine is a strong, independent woman but can only show this by cussing like a sailor and pushing everyone away from her. Then she depends solely upon our hero to get her out of her fix.
3. Stories where all the action happens off the page. Not just the sex, but *all* the action.
4. Stories where the recipe included in the front of the book is the most titillating portion of the book.
5. Stories that try to teach me a lesson without ever making me laugh.
There are probably more but the cherry cobbler sitting on my counter is calling my name. Must go eat. Nom nom nom.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:14 am Office Wench Cherry said...
I get really tired of the heroine not trusting that the people around her are smart enough to solve their own problems and she has to sacrifice herself. I read a book where the heroine didn’t think her military-commander husband had enough brains to recognize a trap when he saw one and she let herself be taken captive to save him. If the plan is for her to be taken captive to get inside the big bad’s lair, fine, I can handle that. When she thinks everyone around her has turnips for brains, well, that’s just bad. And rude to the other characters.
I’m also very sick of the erotic-novel-disguised-as-a-paranormal. I own erotic novels with more plot than some of those books. I look forward to the fade to black scenes by people like Patricia Briggs and Carrie Vaughn. There is surprisingly little sex in Jenna Black’s Morgan Kingsley books. I picked up a book the other day where the heroine (an assassin) stopped to contemplate how hot the cop who was chasing her was. Twice. In the same chase. She didn’t just think it, the action actually stopped. I have never been a supernatural assassin running from a cop who thinks I just killed a guy but I’m pretty sure getting away would be more on my mind than how hot the guy shooting at me is. Like 99.9% sure.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:20 am Rose said...
Boredom is a deal-breaker. If I stop caring about the story, I’ll stop reading. And egregiously bad grammar. I started a romance once in which the author misused “mutually exclusive” to mean “always occuring together” and I couldn’t finish it because obviously both the author and editor were morons.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:55 am CrankyOtter said...
There’s an author I otherwise enjoy who should never be allowed to use the words “ironic” or “sarcastic” ever again. If she hadn’t actually used “wry” correctly once I would just search and replace that for the non-irony but she did so that’s out. I completely second your point about the author needing to know the Jeanine of the words they keep returning to.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:57 am CrankyOtter said...
Now there’s irony. My phone autocorrected “meaning” to ” Jeanine”. In what universe is that helpful?
On April 5, 2011 at 10:22 am lee said...
gloriously mysterious, but not at all helpful!
On April 5, 2011 at 1:55 pm Jenny said...
I kept thinking, “What reference is that?” A Garafalo of a word.
On April 6, 2011 at 2:09 am Annamal said...
Could be worse, after the Christchurch Earthquake there was at least one person who found that their phone auto-corrected “unhurt” to “injured”…after the text had been sent.
Not Helpful!
On April 5, 2011 at 12:34 am Skye said...
I like erotic romances. A Lot. But they have to have story. There is a reason to have sex. And the characters are compelling. I do mind the “I do not trust this man/woman one bit” yet the two have sex together. More than once. Yikes. And what happened to safe sex?
On April 5, 2011 at 12:55 am Merry said...
Well, the number of ways a couple can have sex inside a safe are necessarily constrained due to the space limitations.
On April 5, 2011 at 5:57 pm Skye said...
On April 5, 2011 at 2:09 am Sure Thing said...
First-person is almost always a deal-breaker for me. Far too many still have the authors voice in the story. It feels forced. I live in first-person, I don’t need to read it. Its only recently that there have been one or two authors who do first person in such a way that it flows. Lavender worried me, thinking “I’m gonna hate it” but then I loved what you posted.
Infodump makes me skip huge parts of a novel.
Also too much focus on the “bad guys” that doesn’t seem to move the plot forward. That is, I skip almost everything that JR Ward writes about the lessers.
I don’t like authors trying too hard to make a voice – they want a gangster character but the speech s/he is given is stilted/over the top.
What works? Good characters, good plots, development and some fun.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:43 am Jenny said...
You know, I felt the same way about present tense, but this first person present tense voice was terrific. I was so impressed with this writer. Until I noticed she couldn’t plot. Although her subplots were great. Argh.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:39 pm Deborah Blake said...
I usually can’t stand present tense either. Then I read a Jeri Smith-Ready book (her first radio station one) and it was so good, I stopped noticing after chapter one. And my main CP is writing a YA dystopian series that almost *has* to be in present tense.
But these are the rare exceptions to the rule.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:46 pm followingtheroad said...
Hm. I meant to add first-person to my list, but that cherry cobbler was really calling me.
Generally I can’t stand it. VERY rarely an author can pull it off. Mostly it’s just irritating and limited.
On April 6, 2011 at 11:37 am Skye said...
I guess I’ve read so many books in present tense that it doesn’t bother me. I’ve written several short stories that way too. Haven’t finished them. The one I did finish and publish is first person and it seems to be natural for it to be that way. Of course, it’s easier to carry off in a short venue, I think.
On April 5, 2011 at 2:50 am cbpen said...
It’s been said, but bad grammar, inconsistancy, and poorly written are some of my bug-a-boos.
Also, repetition, big and small. I once read a book where the hero and heroine chortled (yes, chortled!) all the time. I think they were even chortling at a funeral. Who chortles?
Another one, kept repeating that the hero knew the heroine was too tired to do whatever because she yawned until her jaw cracked. Now, there’s a romantic image for you.
Then there are big repetitions. One book had the reason for why the heroine was disobeying her family tradition, at least, every other chapter. Annoying!!!
On April 5, 2011 at 4:43 am Jenny said...
I feel the same way about “chuckled.” And “smirked.” Ew.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:50 pm Camcat said...
Chortling and smirking are for slimy villains.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:11 am Chelle said...
As long as no one “guffaws”. That does NOT sound funny.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:29 am Lynda the Guppy said...
There’s an author who is Very Popular. Long, long lines at RWA, NYT Bestsellers galore, etc. Well, I was reading one of her books, and she had Fresno, CA placed just EAST of Pasadena, CA, and halfway between Los Angeles and Bakersfield.
Now, to put this into perspective, There’s Los Angeles, then just north is the San Fernando Valley and just to the East of the SFV is San Gabriel Valley (where Pasadena is). In fact, if you go East out of the SFV on either the 101/134 or the 210, you reach Pasadena in about 30 minutes in regular traffic.
Bakersfield is 2 hours NORTH of Los Angeles, and Fresno is another 2 hours beyond that. So how the HELL can Fresno be BETWEEN Bakersfield and Los Angeles, and still be due East of Pasadena????
That was only the first of many, MANY problems I found with that particular book, not the least of which is that the heroine is married to someone else THROUGH THE ENTIRE BOOK, and she STILL has sex with the Hero. Tacky, tacky.
It’s been years, and I still seethe every time I see this author’s books.
But one of the biggest deal breakers for me is when I feel the author is messing with a reader’s head just because she can. It’s one thing to totally mess with perceptions, such as Nora Roberts in Midnight Bayou (LOVED it), and to put down red herrings for the reader (and the characters) to follow, but to do it in such a way that I feel the author is smug about pulling one over on the reader? That’s just rude. There’s another Big Name Author whom I stopped reading for just that very reason.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:59 am German Chocolate Betty said...
I hate it when the author gratuitously uses a foreign language — and it’s wrong. I mean, come on, how much effort does it take to find someone to double-check the French or German or whatever and make it correct? And who’s the moronic editor who doesn’t think of this either.
This fits in with “errors” — the hero who is blond in Ch 1, but who has dark chocolate tresses two chapters later… Ditto geographic mistakes. Or writes in technology or terminology that didn’t exist at the time the story was supposed to take place.
Also bad grammar, malaprops…. Wimpy heroines. Testosterone-overloaded heros. Repetition. Illogical jumps.
Just shitty writing, in any form, to be blunt about it.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:27 am Tine said...
Yes, like the Japanese character saying ‘Arigato’ even though s/he speakes otherwise perfect English – that is NOT something non-native speakers do.’Thanks’ is one of the first words you learn in any language and unless your selling to tourists, you don’t switch back for something that easy.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:50 am Jenny said...
I never thought of that, but it’s true. I can say thank you in at least three languages, and in two of them, it’s the only word I know.
On April 5, 2011 at 8:54 am AgTigress said...
“Yes, like the Japanese character saying ‘Arigato’ even though s/he speakes otherwise perfect English – that is NOT something non-native speakers do.”
Absolutely true. But this is using another language symbolically rather than realistically. Non-native speakers (let us say, of English, but it applies universally) are indeed likely to relapse into their own language only when trying to say something very complex, not when using simple standard phrases. But there is a long storytelling tradition of signifying nationality by the use of such simple phrases (which even the monoglot English reader will probably know).
In stories where some characters would actually be conversing with one another in French or German, it is an old trick for the author to try to convey that fact, while still using English, by tossing in the odd ‘merci beaucoup!’ or ‘herzlichen Dank’. In films and plays, the problem is sometimes ‘solved’ by using different English dialects for different nationalities, often American and British, or by the maddening device of simply using English spoken with a French, German etc. accent, even when the characters should be using their own language.
There is no ideal solution, other than using the right language and providing a translation in a footnote for readers who don’t know it. Remember that in Sayers’ Clouds of Witness the long, passionate suicide letter from the ‘murder’ victim is printed in French, as the character wrote it. Sayers expected her readers to be fluent in French (and Italian), but an English translation is kindly provided at the end of the chapter…
On April 5, 2011 at 9:18 am German Chocolate Betty said...
The symbolic can be very effective and a useful “scene setter”. I quite like it, actually, as long as it is really not toooooo gratuitous.
The really clever writers that want to make a multilingual text (i.e., complete sentences instead of just phrases) do it in such a way that you can figure out from the surrounding text what is being said. I have no problems with this, even if it’s a language I don’t personally know. However, when what is written is incorrect (grammar, spelling, whatever) and I can detect it, I get truly fried. For example, if they write something in German but don’t capitalize the nouns or make it clear they just looked stuff up in a foreign language dictionary, i.e., instead of AgTigress’s example “herzlichen Dank” (which is completely correct) they write “herzlicher dank”, (case wrong, non-capitalized noun) or even worse translate completely word for word like changing “thanks very much” into “danke sehr viel”, which is so wrong, you don’t even know where to start to correct it, except to shoot the author and the editor.
Moral of the story: if you know the language, or have access to a real speaker, go ahead. Otherwise forget it…
RE: films and foreign languages. Worst example that always immediately springs to mind. Some dumbass film with Melanie Griffith (who I anyhow find overrated and overpaid, but that’s another snark…) and Michael Douglas. WWII in Germany. She’s supposed to be German, but at one point says “Schornstein” (“chimney”) but pronounced it “shorn-steen” instead of the correct “shorn-stine”. I turned the film off at that point, I was so pissed that no-one clued the ninny in.
Best examples I have seen: “The Longest Day” — the German, French, etc., actors were all native speakers, and well-known actors in their home countries. English was subtitled. Since most of it was shot from the US/British side, wasn’t much, but it was a truly class act.
Funniest example of “handling the languges” was a BBC series from the 80s called ‘Allo’allo. Spoof of WWII France — the characters (all played by British actors) spoke English with a heavy (fake) French accent when they were “speaking French” and a veddy veddy British accent when they were “speaking English”. Hilarious and effective — when the girl from the Resistance was “translating” she switched back and forth between accents.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:21 am German Chocolate Betty said...
I was still so incensed about Melanie Griffith that I messed up myself — the should have read:
…“Schornstein” (“chimney”) but pronounced it “shorn-steen” instead of the correct “shorn-schtine”. ..
Just want to get my “pronunciation guide” correct, otherwise I am just as bad as those I criticize… ;>
On April 5, 2011 at 12:30 pm Jessie said...
About 30 years ago in Paris at breakfast we were seated next to an English couple who apparently had no French language dictionary and no French. He was having tea for breakfast and needed more hot water. He waved the water pot at the waitress but she wasn’t getting it. Finally he said, very loudly ” OAT WOT-AIR, please” The waitress looked at him as if he were insane.
(In his defense, my language teacher always used to say if you can’t remember the words in the correct language, try to say it in English with a foreign pronunciation because frequently words are similar from one romance language to another, just said differently. So maybe that is what he was up to. But it was really funny to hear)
On April 5, 2011 at 2:01 pm Jenny said...
A writer whose name I have now misplaced told me once that a copy editor had “corrected” all the French in her ms and she hadn’t see the book again until it was in print. The problem was that French was the writer’s original language and the copy writer had evidently flunked it in high school. The book was full of horrible mistakes and the writer was furious and mortified.
On April 7, 2011 at 12:46 am misspiggy don'twannabe said...
I saw the Melanie Griffith movie – I read the book (by Susan Isaacs) and was unhappy with how Hollywood changed the story. I heard Susan Isaacs speak once – she did the screen play for her first book made into a movie (was it compromising positions?) with a yummy Raul Julia as the hero. She said they paid her so much money for the Melanie Griffith /Michael Douglas one that she got over the fact that the screenplay was so bad.
I had a friend who had a few romances published (they were quite good) and she submitted a piece about herself and her book in a Review magazine – she used the word Wall-ah in the magazine article. Apparently thinking of a famous French word. Now it’s all I can think of if I hear her name.
On April 5, 2011 at 1:58 pm Jenny said...
I still think it throws the reader out of the story. It alway seemed wrong, as if the writer were indeed saying, “Hey, she’s FRENCH,” but I didn’t realize why before. I could see if the speaker was distracted or upset and lapsed back into her native tongue, but otherwise, it feels forced.
On April 6, 2011 at 3:54 am Katie said...
That reminds me, every now and then I’ll read something by a British writer with an American character who has Brit slang/vocabulary. Or there’s an attempt to use American terms, but it’s so badly done all I can think is “No one in this or any other country talks like that.” Agatha Christie seemed to have the latter problem in some of her short stories.
On April 6, 2011 at 3:56 am Katie said...
OK this was supposed to go 2 comments up, so if it seems out of context that’s why.
On April 6, 2011 at 10:49 am McB said...
One of my ‘favorite’ giggle inducers is when a non-American actor does an American accent. It always comes out as sort of Chicago by way of Boston with a stop over in Texas or Oklahoma. I don’t suppose Americans are any better at British accents.
On April 6, 2011 at 1:05 pm AgTigress said...
“every now and then I’ll read something by a British writer with an American character who has Brit slang/vocabulary. ”
Indeed. And vice versa, I should point out. Many American authors make obvious errors of this kind when featuring a contemporary British character, either using American words/phrases we don’t use — like ‘gotten’ — or using laughably old-fashioned British idioms or slang.
There are language problems even when an older, established writer tries to write dialogue for much younger characters who speak the same general dialect of English as she does. Both Christie and Ngaio Marsh (who otherwise had a brilliant ear for language) falter in that respect in some of their later work.
And I can imagine that Marsh’s (accurate) transcription of American accents in her books totally baffles Americans, because she was spelling the words as a BE speaker would pronounce that spelling. For example, when an American character in Marsh exclaims ‘Gard!’, I imagine an American reader would look blank. To a British reader, actually pronouncing that word in terms of British phonetics produces an approximation to the AE pronunciation of ‘God’. She even conveys the characteristic vowels of her native form of English (NZ) in terms of British spelling (e.g. a NZ character saying the name ‘Patrick’ has it spelt ‘Petruck’).
Writing good dialogue is definitely not for sissies.
On April 7, 2011 at 2:00 am Micki said...
Hmmm. I’m going to say, though, that I sometimes default to “thanks” when I’m tired or surprised, even after 20 years in Japan. But yeah, I don’t walk into a new situation with a big cheery “Hello, I’m a big Gaijin!”
On April 5, 2011 at 4:15 am Strop said...
I bought a book by Fiona Walker, Kiss and Tell. I know she’s a big seller but I’ve never read her stuff before. I picked up this one because the blurb claimed it was about the three day eventing world, and I love three day eventing. The horses, the riders, the outdoors…. heaven on earth. I made it to page 66 then abandoned it because the horses had barely featured; instead there is loads of Jilly Cooper style characters and exposition. I like me some Jilly Cooper, but that’s when it’s written by Cooper and not someone apeing her style. I can cope with exposition IF the book delivers what it promised. This does neither.
Jenny honey, I’m still waiting for You Again, and I realise I have to wait some time, but when you’ve written that one do you think you could do one about the equine world?
On April 5, 2011 at 4:16 am Strop said...
PS: When you come to the UK come for the summer and I will take you to loads of agricultural shows and horse trials for research.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:45 am Jenny said...
Baby, I love Dick Francis, but that’s as close as I’ve ever gotten to a horse.
Can you pretend the dachshunds are taller? They snort a lot but I think that’s sinus.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:31 am lee said...
Strop – I think you and I are going to have to work together on a trans-Atlantic novel of equine excitement and gorgeous romance. Jenny is clearly occupied doing what she does best, and we can but emulate her. Once we’ve finished with the child-rearing….
On April 5, 2011 at 11:24 am Slave Driver said...
Warning: Horse related rant ahead:
In a Philippa Gregory book there was a scene where the messenger galloped his horse up the road to the castle while the heroine watched. Upon his arrival he jumped down to relay his message and his horse was panting.
Grrrr!
Horses do not pant. Panting is how a body cools down. Dogs pant. Dogs only sweat from their nose and their pads. Otherwise they pant to relieve heat.
Horses sweat all over their bodies. And since they only breath through their nose, not their mouth, they cannot pant.
Sorry. Can you tell I have a hard time reading horse related fiction without being taken out of the story long enough to smack the book against a table a few times before I go back to reading? (If I go back to reading it.)
On April 5, 2011 at 11:54 am AgTigress said...
Good heavens, I’d have been thrown right out of the story by a panting horse, too.
People can make the oddest mistakes about animals. I am sure I have mentioned here before the 1980s category romance (I have mercifully genuinely forgotten the author’s name) which featured a litter of newborn kittens that were descibed as hairless. Not Sphynx cats, just ordinary moggies. The author obviously thought they were born naked, and that their fur grew later… If one has never seen a newborn kitten oneself, it shouldn’t be too hard to find someone who has, and check!
On April 6, 2011 at 10:11 am Susan said...
I did not know that about horses. Thank you! Now I can say I learned something today.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:25 pm CrankyOtter said...
In the movie True Grit from last year, [description of ending follows, stop if you care]
There’s a race against time scene where the sheriff takes the girl to town after an incident with a rattlesnake. He’s carrying her on her horse, they race right past one of the deceased villians’ horses, then continue riding until the horse can’t go any further. Would it not have made sense to take the other horse along so they could switch off every so often to give the horse a break from the larger burden or would it not have mattered? Because I assumed they had that option and the way it played out annoyed me, (as did the costuming continuity issues and the stilted cadence of the speech).
On April 6, 2011 at 3:27 pm Robin said...
With you on this one. And, yes, it would have made a difference. Not a huge one given the weight and speed, but enough. (I used to work horses for a living. No one wants to go to the movies with me if there are horses ’cause I get all snarky. Just can’t help myself.)
On April 5, 2011 at 4:18 am Moth said...
I have a very strong suspicion I know what book this is. And if it is who I think it is, I share many of the same frustrations with her. Great voice. Funny as hell. But her heroines tend to piss me off , and the romances are kind of non-events. I keep reading her because she’s funny. Only one of her books has been a keeper for me, though. Ironically enough, (if this author is who I think it is) it’s this one that you hate so very much. I think I like this one because this is the one with the most likable hero. All her other heroes are just kind of non-entities.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:48 am Jenny said...
She had a beautifully written family, two very different sisters, battling parents, harriden of a grandmother, if that helps. Hero was working as a carpenter.
I don’t mean to be coy about this, I think this author is hugely talented. But I don’t want to trash anybody’s plotting by name. That’s just rude.
On April 6, 2011 at 5:39 am Moth said...
Yup. Exactly the book I thought it was. I think it’s a keeper for me solely for the joke about the spoons alone. I nearly died laughing. But yeah, I wish she could plot.
I totally get not naming the author. I’m low on the publishing food chain but I still try to be very careful about this too. No worries.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:38 pm Jenny said...
She’s funny as all hell. And that’s so hard to do right.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:34 am AgTigress said...
Factual errors — geographical, historical or just everyday things — errors of language (though I sometimes have to check whether something that is wrong un British English is standard in American English, like the definition of careen), sexual scenes as mere space-fillers and word-count-increasers.
I also strongly dislike too much action, too much dialogue, and too little authorial description and exposition, and this is where we get into the rather difficult territory covered by Jenny’s rules, namely, the fact that tastes vary. I dislike stories that start by flinging the reader into the middle of a maelstrom of action. If the first couple of pages are full of dramatic things happening to people I haven’t even met yet, I get bored. I want to be led in gently, for example, by means of a prologue. I’m not joking, and I’m not being deliberately contrary. The whole ‘show, don’t tell’ thing seems to me to have given rise to some books that read more like screenplays than novels.
On April 5, 2011 at 6:43 pm MaryG said...
I KNEW I knew the book. And she’s an instant buy for me, even with all the problems. And it’s all because of the dialogue. If you can get conversation right, you’ve got me. I don’t know why, but the biggest reason I stop reading books is because of crappy dialogue.
On April 6, 2011 at 5:57 pm glee said...
I think this point is really interesting in the YMMV category. My late husband was a person who liked the “rules of the world” or whatever, laid out in the beginning of a story. It was the scientist in him, I think, even though he wrote poems and taught English. I, otoh, am not bothered by weird words on page 2. My eye elides over them and I think I figure that if it’s really an important concept, someone will clue me in later. So, I enjoyed SciFi books, particularly fantasy world ones, much more than he did. Worldbuilding and definitions are more important for some readers than others.
On April 5, 2011 at 5:23 am Allie said...
I have a lot of pet peeves, but I will pretty much only stop reading if the heroine’s being knocked down to pull her back up for no reason I can figure. I’ve made it through “women are like this, men are like this, let’s laugh about it and eat ice cream/drink beer” books with only sheer hatred making it possible, though.
On April 5, 2011 at 8:56 am Jo Walton said...
There are things that will stop me starting, like awful prose, but once I have started a book the thing I cannot take is character violation. I will put up with idiot plots without noticing until afterwards, I’ll overlook scientific howlers, I’ll slide right by characters with stupid names, as long as the prose carries me along and I care about the characters. I have noticed that if I am complaining while reading about anything else, it’s a sign that I have already lost interest.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:09 am JLondon said...
1 Moustaches. There is an author whose heroes I really like, except for the tickly facial hair. The men all have it, the women all love it. Weird, and distracting.
2 Bodily fluids. I’m all in favour of sex scenes, provided they are essential to the story, and it’s good that the characters are turned on by one another, but I don’t want specifics about bodily secretions as a measure of their passion.
3 Damaged heroines, especially ones scarred by a terrible sexual past that can only be overcome by sleeping with the right man.
4 Martyrs. Seconding Office Wench Cherry’s comments above. I prefer a heroine whose arc is driven by her own goals, not one who makes the ultimate sacrifice for a significant other in desperate need.
5 Unhappiness. I read romantic fiction for pleasure, and if the heroine is deeply unhappy for too much of the book, it’s not enjoyable and I don’t want to read about it, even if the book is well written and things turn out well in the end. I have several favourite books which I re-read regularly, except that I always skip the set-up in the first quarter or third of the book.
6 Series where the relationship between hero and heroine fails to progress. I know that once they go to bed together / set up home together the tension is resolved but I’m going to get frustrated and give up on them anyway if nothing changes between the characters.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:55 pm followingtheroad said...
Oh the mustaches! Gah. I hate them. I read a book recently where the hero had a fu man chu and the heroine LOVED it. I kept thinking that the author didn’t actually know what a fu man chu was because there was no way that is sexy. It’s stringy and strange. Maybe she was thinking of something else and got it mixed up? Every time it was mentioned I died a little inside.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:10 am Kira said...
Books written in the present tense.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:31 am colognegrrl said...
I agree with a lot of the stuff mentioned. Besides that, I hate when there are too many clichés: the incredibly rich hero vs. the terribly poor heroine, a funny old sidekick who does nothing but make “funny” remarks, the psychologist who is constantly offering to talk about problems, the cop who is always suspicious… You name it. And the real killer are scenes where people are “healed” of their negative character traits like “Oh, darling, I know you only abuse women because your father left your family when you were small!” – “Oh, thank you, dear, for pointing that out to me. Now I’ll never have to be like that again!”
On April 6, 2011 at 12:05 am Anna Cowan said...
that last one is a pet peeve of mine as well – characters who are somehow not really themselves, but will be restored to a perfect, whole self. I just watched Clarissa, and I loved that Lovelace was truly a twisted person. She could have loved him, except that he couldn’t be “reformed” into someone other than himself.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:46 am Kylee/Sizzlin' Cherry said...
It takes a great deal to make me stop reading a book, and it’s usually that I get bored. Typically, this happens when I try to move out of my fiction realm and start reading either a memoir, biography, or other non-fiction piece.
That being said, I have dropped a series that has been mentioned here before – you know, the one where the girl can’t decide between two guys and keeps having bad luck, getting almost blown up, getting saved by one of the two guys she can’t decide on, etc…. Come on, woman, make a decision! I stopped reading that series about 12 books in, and can’t seem to get excited about any others that are either out or coming. And when I heard that there might be a TV series on it, all I could do was roll my eyes. The grandmother was the best part of that series.
On April 5, 2011 at 11:59 pm Jennifer said...
The author wants those books to be totally static and that that girl will never choose. Argh. Bored of that.
On April 6, 2011 at 10:25 am Susan said...
It’s going to be a movie. Not sure if I’ll see it. Tried to read the first book, but it just wasn’t doing it for me. So I read the synopsis for each book, and now I think I’m caught up.
On April 7, 2011 at 12:53 am misspiggy don'twannabe said...
I couldn’t finish the first book either. I only like the grandmother.
Many of my friends suggest I should give her another try. But why?
On April 6, 2011 at 11:40 am Skye said...
I got bored by book 4. (I’m easily bored.) Mom read them all and heartily loved each and every one.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:48 am LizC said...
I try to finish every book I start even if I have to skim the rest of it but sometimes I just quit reading. Usually out of boredom. For most books, unless by a trusted author, I have a first chapter rule. If I can’t get through the first chapter, either because it’s boring or awful, then I generally don’t read the book. There are always exceptions but if you can’t grab my attention by the end of the first chapter I don’t trust an author to keep my attention.
Mostly, though, I require believability. You can have the most ridiculous things happening in your story but as long as I can believe it could happen within the world you’ve created then I don’t care.
Also, if I don’t like any of your characters and wish that they would all die then while I may finish the book I won’t like it (I’m naming names, Anne Tyler, because I’m fascinated that I seem to be the only person who doesn’t like her writing, but I’ve wanted to strangle every character in every book of hers that I’ve read).
On April 5, 2011 at 10:12 am Brussel Sprout said...
1 Pet hate, when the world the writer is building starts wobbling like a Dr Who c. 1975 set. Anything that yanks me out of the place/time, e.g. language issues (English people don’t say gotten and haven’t said it since Chaucerian times, I’ll run a check through Shakespeare, but it sounds painfully wrong to English ears when it is meant to be some nob speaking), geography, stupid names, history. One of the most egregious errors was someone calling Keats a ‘pantywaist’ for not stepping up and fighting in the Napoleonic Wars when at the time the story was set, he was 5. Or it could have been 10. But not the kind of age he should be out fighting wars.
2 All those flaming bloody noble spies. Spying was a dirty job, no aristocrat would have done it in a million years, it would have been dishonourable sneaking about pretending to be someone else. First of all, joining the navy was the preferred aristo/upper middle class service, second of all, first sons were too busy learning how to run their estates and working out how to make money out of the coal under their land or gambling or maybe doing some political stuff to mess with dirty business like spying. So all these gangs of earls and marquises (of whom there are wayyyyy too many in historical romance, most with really stupidly unbelievable titles) hanging out and being all spy-y…total dealbreaker.
3 Embittered heroes/heroines festering over misdeeds committed by their mothers/fathers/brothers/wives etc in the past. Give me a break, get over it, get over yourself.
4 Goody two shoes heroines whose flaws are oops, they just have to take in that stray dog/child/vampire and maybe do a little weeping because someone spoke sharply to them. And they are all alone in a cruel world until the hero comes and rescues them from their terrible plight because they cannot do their own rescuing o no no.
Basically, it all gets down to characterisation and worldbuilding. Plots matter in so far as they need to be consistent and arise out of the actions and emotions of the characters (e.g. Middlemarch, Dorothea marries Casaubon because she believes he is the right man for her, even when everyone around her is saying NOoooooooooooo, he’s so wroooooooongggggg, don’t do it!!!!”). But really, what matters is Dorothea, generous, stubborn, wilful, longing to do good, massively wounded by her husband’s careless treatment and cold accusatory behaviour. And the world around her, with all the gossips and the petty and major scandals and unfolding of trivial and signficant events is rich and utterly true. Same with Naomi Novik’s Temeraire series.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:02 pm Molly said...
I’m with you on everything except for noble spies. I guess I read the Scarlet Pimpernel too young. There are so many other areas in which historical romance lacks verisimilitude (the very number of aristocrats, as you say) that I take it with a grain of salt and look past the premise and into the rest of the character development. P.G. Wodehouse used the same conceit, in a way. I mean, could there really have been enough utterly silly, useless young men to fill the Drones club? I like the intrigue, I like the silliness so I accept the conceit and look for the truths the author can convey within the constraints of the formula.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:23 am Susan D said...
Great topic.
For me it’s the characters. If I find my self not liking them after the first few chapters, or worse, not caring in the least what happens to them, the book gets dropped directly onto the back-to-the-library pile.
Life’s too short to waste on mediocre books.
(Now, I must go and Google “carpenter, voice, romance, harriden,” etc.)
On April 6, 2011 at 9:02 pm Molly said...
If you found it, tell me. Now I want to read it!
On April 5, 2011 at 10:24 am Polly said...
I hate (!) happily ever after baby-filled epilogues. Or even look-at-us-we’-re-so-happy epilogues. I want to finish a book and wish there was more to read. Usually, an epilogue gives me more than I wanted to read.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:28 am AgTigress said...
Brussel Sprout, you say “English people don’t say gotten and haven’t said it since Chaucerian times, I’ll run a check through Shakespeare, but it sounds painfully wrong to English ears when it is meant to be some nob speaking”.
Like you, I cringe when I see it placed in the mouth of a BE-speaker. But I think that it was used in some British regional (or possibly also social-class) dialects as late as the 17thC., otherwise it could not have been transmitted to North America. Some of the roots of general American English lie in regional rather than ‘standard’ (i.e. London and home counties) BE of the 17th/18thC. Seventeenth-century East Anglian dialect, and also many Scottish and Irish words and turns of phrase have been incorporated into AE that have been lost from standard BE.
An American novelist whom I know well tells me that in some of her earlier Regency-set historicals, she carefully used ‘got’, knowing that a Regency or modern Brit would not say ‘gotten’, only to have a headstrong editor put ‘gotten’ back in all over the place!
On April 6, 2011 at 4:49 pm Brussel Sprout said...
Yes, it’s dialect up to the present day…and aristos spoke dialect up to mid/late 18th century in Parliament and elsewhere, so technically, it’s not wrong wrong wrong. I think there are probably quite a few headstrong editors around the place as well. For me though, brought up on a diet of BBC adaptations of Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer, it’s like nails on a blackboard.
Like OK in a Regency mouth. So not OK.;-)
On April 5, 2011 at 12:00 pm Hellion said...
1.) Heroes who are so sensitive, empathetic, and understanding they couldn’t possibly exist in the 21st century, let alone the Regency period where they seem to be overruning. (And they’re all dukes–but I won’t go there about how much that annoys me.)
2.) Historical heroines who never worry about getting pregnant outside of marriage, nor really worry about being shunned and having a horrible life if they “ruin” themselves. Idiots. Contemporary heroines who only want to get laid. Sometimes it feels like I’m reading a novel produced by a frat boy.
3.) The plot is contrived to get to the sex scene as much as possible; and it’s clear the author has mistaken “sex” for “sexual tension.”
4.) Bringing me out of the story by using things I think are obvious to anyone with a modicum of historical knowledge: the use of the word “clone” in the 1800s; chocolate in England before 1500–stuff like that.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:11 pm Skye said...
There is a science fiction author who is astoundingly good. Her books tend toward the military: she was in the military, she knows strategy, structure, guns, and horses. The first series of hers I read blew me away. Then she continued in that same world with a younger character.
The books were still as fabulously written, the characters as real as they get, but the books pissed me off and I won’t read them again. Why? Because the main character goes from hero to being seen and treated as the worst person in the galaxy to hero again. Hell, even the guy who apparently loves her almost always ends up believing the worst about her. And every single time, all it takes is ONE person’s word against her and down she goes. That bugs me a lot. Her next series got smarter than that, thank god.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:52 pm Strop said...
Esmay Suiza! Love that character. And that series (horses and space battles, fabulous – although not horses doing battle in space); I reread it regularly. I see what you mean about the switch, but it didn’t put me off.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:42 pm Skye said...
She made me crazy. I love the Heris Serrano books, and the parts in the Suiza books that bring Heris in. I also love the Vatta’s War series.
One of the best books ever: Remnant Population by Elizabeth Moon. The character is an eccentric woman, probably in her 60s who actually hides so she doesn’t get taken away in a forced colony relocation. Planetary natives eventually show up. This is one of my favorite books ever, especially because the heroine is an older woman.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:48 pm Deborah Blake said...
I loved that character too. And I twitched a bit at the switch, but kept reading. Thank goodness they got better again.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:17 pm Ginny said...
I have a book I’m really conflicted over. I like the author. She writes very well and is funny but she tears her heroines down to the ground before she “rebuilds” them. Or “redeems” them. It is not my point of view but I can handle that if I don’t read more than one of hers in a row.
I’m having a hard time articulating the issue here. What really bothers me is her last book where the heroine is seriously sexually threatened by someone almost to the point of assault. I was already a little queasy about this since the bad guy had been harassing the heroine throughout the book but she handled the situations. And then the heroine sacrifices herself for her love interest and the “village” by saying she lied about the attempted assault. I actually had to put the book down and walk away. I was so upset that I almost wrote to the author and asked her why she would write such a thing. Sexual harassment, assault and rape are such a serious matter that to have it used as a plot contrivance really bothered me.
I won’t lend the book to anyone, I won’t donate it to my library and I am tempted to recycle it in the paper bin. And I am mournful because I feel this author really let me down and if I stand by my personal decisions, I cannot buy her books again.
I’m not trying to stand on a soap box and I am not trying to be holier than thou. I may be explaining myself badly but I felt betrayed by the author. The fact that it is still bothering me several months later indicates how conflicted I am. This book is my deal breaker.
On April 5, 2011 at 12:59 pm MaineBetty said...
@ Ginny, yes, that bothered me, too. The guy needed to be smacked early on, and I felt the town was acting as a pimp, not to mentioned bait and switch.
My favorite editing miss: “They exchanged torpid glances.”
Aside from many of the above mentioned, I recently quit (in this case) listening to a book because the author seemd to be describing events in real time.
“They road together up the hill. There were scrub pines on the left, and aspen on the right, which had a steeper incline. Except 20 yards further up the trail there was a scrub pine in among the aspen, a lonely sentinel. As (the hero’s) bay gelding with the white patch on his nose (well, of course, so longer exactly HIS nose) lifted his front right hoof to take another step up the dreary path, a black bird flew across the dreary path. Then another black bird flew across the dreary path, but it was larger than the first….”
On April 6, 2011 at 3:28 am Kira said...
Is that for real? Actually published? Because it sounds like something out of http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/
On April 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm carolc said...
1. Unpleasant characters. I don’t care how well written a book is, if I don’t like the characters, if they are not people I want to spend time with, I won’t read it. To me, characters are the most important part of the story.
2. No HEA!!!
3. Poor plotting. Weak, limp, floppy plots. Contrived plots. Plots were things happen just because the author wants the plot to go in a certain direction.
4. Poor (or non-existent) research. See above comments about foreign language, etc.
4a. Horses that pant! Or do other non-horsey things! Hollywood horses are not real, people. Get it right or don’t write it.
4b. Cowboys (or cops or doctors or whatever) that do things that cowboys (or whatever) wouldn’t do. I repeat – research.
5. The Big Misunderstanding.
6. Certain tropes, such as the protaganist falling in love with his/her rapist. Ick. That is wrong on so many levels I don’t know where to begin.
6a. Too many Horrible Things. If I want to read about Horrible Things, I’ll pick up newspaper.
7. Alpha men, submissive women. Or passive women, or smart women doing stupid things, etc., just so the alpha man can be right. No, no, no, no, no, no.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:50 pm Deborah Blake said...
Dang, Carole–you stole my list, almost word for word
On April 5, 2011 at 1:34 pm McB said...
Narrative that goes on and on and on without adding anything to the story. Very picturesque, lovely word painting, deft use of the English language and all that. But it’s not story. I can overlook a little of that if it helps set the atmosphere of the book, but after a point it’s just the author being too much in love with their own words.
I also dislike it when an author breaks a promise to the reader because they want to be all daring and artistic. If you set me up for one thing, don’t deliver something else. That’s just rude.
when an author clearly wants the story to end up some place and asks the reader to suspend disbelief too far and ignore character assassination to get there.
But the thing that disappoints me most often is when an author falls in love with some other writer’s style or genre and tries to imitate them. It’s disappointing because they can have so many good things going and be, potentially, a good writer; but it gets lost because they are trying to write something else in someone else’s voice. It’s just such a waste of talent.
On April 5, 2011 at 1:52 pm Kate George said...
Don’t kill off characters that deserve to live.
***SPOILER ALERT***
I loved Jennifer Weiner’s “Good in Bed.” It was harrowing in places and sad but it ended well and the writing is very good. But at the end of “Certain Girls” she kills off Canny’s husband (I’m not sure how to spell Canny because I listened to these books, didn’t actually read them) I was devastated. Hadn’t she already gone through enough? She had to loose the love of her life? I won’t read any more of that Jennifer’s work because I don’t trust her to give me an ending I can stomach. And I loved her writing, but there is only so much pain I can deal with. Not at the end of a story.
That’s why I still read the stories where the woman blows up cars and can’t decide on the man. (Although I hear there is a third man entering the story in her next one.) I know there is no character development. I know she’s going to choose the guy I think she shouldn’t. But I always laugh. I can always enjoy the fact that these two guys are crazy for her. I’m never left feeling as if the floor has dropped.
I get enough crap in my own life. Don’t give me it in a book I’m reading for pleasure. I guess it’s good we all have different taste in books, isn’t it!
On April 5, 2011 at 2:27 pm MaineBetty said...
A THIRD handsome, hot, available guy? Jeez.
On April 6, 2011 at 12:06 am Jennifer said...
The paranormal guy outside of the numbers? That one?
…Yeah, that’s not really happening, he just sleeps over without sex a lot. And now he’s moved on to some other Unmentionable he can’t sleep with.
On April 6, 2011 at 3:59 am Kate George said...
You know, that’s one of the reasons I like those books. The fantasy that several good looking guys could be hanging around competing for my attention!
On April 6, 2011 at 9:13 pm Molly said...
I agree with you, but I think #12 was the best one (if I’ve got the numbers right– the one where we found out more about Ranger b/c of the kidnapping). There was a darker edge amidst the humor and I felt the author had made a huge leap in plotting ability. Since then, my expectations have been higher. I still read– they’re funny. But I want another #12.
On April 5, 2011 at 2:43 pm Jennifer said...
Yeah, I don’t think she should choose that guy, either.
On April 5, 2011 at 2:45 pm Clever Cherry said...
Kate – I agree with you completely in both cases. When she killed the husband off I thought why the hell would she do that?
And as for the love triangle woman, I love those books still. If you read her book about how she writes them, she deliberately doesn’t arc the characters. She has a kind of a formula for writing those books which starts with the crime that the plot centers around. It’s a formula that works for me. I laugh every time. And her new series as well. I love the characters in it; especially the monkey.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:32 pm stephanie said...
I haven’t read the Jennifer Weiner books but I’ve read the other ones. They are on my ‘library’ list and then when nothing else is available. Mostly because I don’t like having the two guys pitted against each other.
Which reminds me of another series…It’s one that my mom reads and so I read some too so I could talk about it with her. It’s a mystery series about a nice, hometown woman living in a small town in Minnesota and yet she’s ‘sorta’ dating these two guys. It’s a cozy mystery so there’s not much mention of the ‘sorta’ but really — in this kind of small town I have a hard time believing that this ‘carrying on’ would take place. Now I just read for the recipes.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:32 pm merrymac said...
Kate – I hear you. I enjoy that series for the same reason I enjoy a good screwball comedy. They’re purposely silly. I buy the latest book, knowing the characters are larger-than-life, and the story outrageous and over the top. That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? The exploding cars are a running joke, of course. And the two gorgeous guys? Repeat, repeat, repeat. Please. And now there’s a third guy? If there was a deep plot, it would thicken. But I’m not reading a Plum for that. I’m reading because it always makes me laugh.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:35 pm MaineBetty said...
It’s true, I have laughed out loud while riding the bus when reading a Plum, so I still read them. But I don’t buy them.
On April 6, 2011 at 12:05 am Jennifer said...
I agree. That was super freaking depressing. I don’t think the author is a romance novelist so much, but still.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:29 pm Carol Anne said...
Kate ~ why kill off the husband, sheesh, can’t read Certain Girls now. Okay, anyone want the book? Skipping that one.
On April 5, 2011 at 2:10 pm Sierra said...
I read a book recently that seemed okay for the first part. Then, suddenly, without any previous mention of religion, it because a Christian romance focusing on how their love helped them find God again. I’m okay with a religious romance, as long as it admits that’s what it is at the beginning. Instead, I felt mugged. That was worse than the lack of growth in characters or the tepid plot. I believe in God, but don’t try to hide your personal religious beliefs in your characters’ dialogue like a parent hiding veggies under cheese. Be honest at the beginning and I’m more likely to enjoy it.
I just finished a book where I thought that the heroine was going to do the stupid thing of telling the guy she doesn’t love him so that he’ll leave and be safe from looming danger. In fact, she tried it. I loved that the author had him look at her and say, “You’re pulling a Lassie, aren’t you?” with a grin. (You know, how Timmy used to throw rocks at Lassie to get her to leave so she’d be safe.) He called her on it and they worked it out. Yay for communication and characters really knowing each other!
On April 6, 2011 at 12:07 am Jennifer said...
I read a very old school Christian romance once and honestly, it felt like they were having a threesome with God. The romance was entirely secondary compared to the swooning over God. I felt creeped out.
On April 6, 2011 at 7:21 pm Sierra said...
YES. I don’t like it when they do that. There are well written Christian romances that I’ve gotten passed on to me from my grandmother. So well written that I’ve sought out the authors for other titles, although I can’t remember a one of them now.
However, there are also so many poorly written ones that evangelize to the point of losing the story…and the reader. *sigh*
On April 6, 2011 at 7:23 pm Sierra said...
I will also mention that I’m not a Christian, so I may not be their target audience…
On April 5, 2011 at 3:11 pm Annamal said...
This might seem like a minor nitpick but…
There’s an absolutely amazingly well-written YA which threw me completely when the teen heroine’s very intelligent and well-educated parents were planning to pack her up and move with her to Fiji because “it’s paradise”.
Now I love Fiji, it’s an amazing place, but it’s also currently a military dictatorship which has gone through more than 4 coups or attempted coups just in my lifetime (the coup before this current one resulted in the death of my best friend’s cousin during the resulting riots so it’s a little personal). It’s got simmering racial and cultural tensions that aren’t going to be resolved in the near future. Bottom line is that it’s great place to be a tourist but I’d be very cautious about moving there.
Having two politcally aware, well-educated people describe it as idyllic threw me out of the story completely.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:19 pm wonderer said...
As an aspiring writer, I am taking a ton of mental notes. This comment thread is pure gold! (Not to mention fun from a reader’s perspective, of course.)
On April 5, 2011 at 3:43 pm Lou said...
Angst… I really, really don’t like much angst. I want to jump into the book, start kicking ass, get the h/h off their collective butts and moving forward (or at least doing something). A person can only beat themselves up for just so long before it gets really boring.
Characters I can’t like or can’t relate to at all – definite deal breaker.
Vampires – I mean really people, who in their right mind would find the undead who slaughter people and drink their blood sexy? (With the possible exceptions of Spike and Angel.) Also, the never get old while the other person ages then dies…
Animal abuse – No killing animals, period. That’s why I hate Dances with Wolves, althought it’s one of the very best westerns made and quite true to the times – dead beloved horse, dead friendly wolf – not my cuppa.
Incorrectly described (real) physical locations – Also a deal breaker.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:38 pm Dawn said...
I also hate angst in a story. Angst = melodrama = high school. Ick. Grow up, get a life, find a way to resolve the situation, do something other than sit there and wallow. Please.
On April 5, 2011 at 3:51 pm Lou said...
Oh – and having been immersed in the horse world my whole life (since I was four), reading descriptions about the horse world that are not spot on will make me stop reading. I remember reading a book by Elizabeth Lowell about three-day eventing – specifically about the 1984 Olympics held in Los Angeles. I was there and watched the horse events and was lucky enough to get a ticket to the cross-country jumping course. Her description about the course and everything that went on behind the scenes led me to believe that she had been there also and had done much research while there. Because her descriptions reflected what I had experienced, I was able to really fall into the story.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:01 pm Deborah Blake said...
1. Unlikable protagonists. If I get two chapters in and haven’t met one character I like or care about, *BANG* up against the wall. Why should I waste my time reading about people when I don’t give a crap what happens to them?
2. Way too much over-the-top description. I like to know where I am in a story, but I read a paranormal romance where there author spent half a chapter describing the creepy woods the character were walking through. Tell me they’re creepy woods and then GET ON WITH THE STORY, please.
3. More sex than plot. Or sex instead of plot. Or sex that has nothing to do with the plot. You see where I’m going here.
4. Sex that is described in clinical detail. As with the person who vetoes the bodily fluids, I don’t like too much raw detail or a sex scene that is basically: he put X on her Y, she took her Y and blah, blah, yawn… I don’t mind detail, but please make the scene flow (oops, back to the fluids again!).
5. Major headhopping. I’ve been really enjoying a popular author I discovered recently. She is very prolific, so I’ve gotten to read about 10 books of hers in a row. One of the most recent ones (so you can’t say, “Oh, well, she’s new at this”) had such blatant headhopping in chapter one, I almost threw it against the wall. I don’t know whether to blame bad editing, sloppy writing, or an author who is trying to produce too many books too fast. (I think this one said she already had 80 books out! I can’t imagine having 80 books in me.) But she knew better, clearly. Tut, tut.
Also, because I’m wimpy and squeamish (and find real life provides enough dismal gloom), I HATE books that are full of gross or horribly depressing things. I realize that bad stuff has to happen to the characters you like, but there’s a limit.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:19 pm Jana said...
I must have a lot of deal-breakers, because I agree with so much of what others have posted. But I haven’t seen this one yet: complete cliffhanger endings, an obvious and maddening ploy to make you buy the next book in a series. A pet peeve, probably, but a complete dealbreaker for me. I’ve dumped every series after encountering one of these.
On April 5, 2011 at 4:23 pm tennis41 said...
“I’ll do the honorable thing and marry you” plot. Okay in a category, I guess its expected but in a single title – no way. I’d buy, “I’ll do the honorable thing and pay child support.” I’d buy, “I want in on the kid’s life and will take half his expenses and we’ll see how things work out – or if they take bets on who’s holding the knife and who lies dead on the floor. ” But the traditional – I’ll tie my life to you because we had sex – no way.
On April 5, 2011 at 5:10 pm Cathy M said...
I’m loving the comments. They’re way better than many of the books I’ve seen lately.
I’m not into vampires and werewolves. Ugh. Think of the blood stains in the laundry and clogged drains. Yes, I know I’m too literal, but geez Louise, that’s right up there with the couple stranded on a desert island for years that fall madly in love. Can you imagine the body odor, hair in non lovely places, let alone dealing with your period? So I guess even in a made up world, I’m looking for a writer that addresses the realities of life. I’ll probably continue to read the book, but in my head I’ll still be carping about the details.
I will not read books with plots with “forced seduction”. To me that’s just a semantic end around the term rape. How can you trust and love some idiot who thinks he knows your mind and heart better than you do and just “knows” you really want sex as you’re emphatically saying NO? If the heroine is too wimpy to say yes to sex, that’s her loss. For me, if you don’t take no for an answer, bring on the pepper spray. Again, real world intruding here.
I’m one of the people who could not get into the numbered series of the famous author. I tried, heaven knows I tried, but I could not get into those books from day one. What other people found funny just did not click for me. I didn’t like the plot or the characters, so after chapter two, that was it.
Changes in eye and hair color of main characters or incorrect names jar me and take me out of the story, but I realize that that may be the fault of the editors, not the author. Those are annoying, but don’t kill the book for me.
I also don’t like sex centered books that are not marketed as erotica. If the characters and almost non-existent plot only act as pegs upon which to hang sex scenes, please call a spade a spade, or should I say erotica as erotica. We’re big girls and can buy those books if we want to, but I’d like to see truth in labeling and advertising.
I think that about sums up my rant.
On April 5, 2011 at 5:12 pm Jessie said...
There is a series that starts out with a well-constructed fantasy universe and the protagonist is basically a masochistic prostitute (Just because she likes it and her owner/spymaster pimps her out doesn’t change the fact). I should despise these books but they are incredible: the relationships, the plotting, mystery, the action, the world-view. They have ever kind of deal breaker that I have ever listed: rape, murder, torture, debasement -either physical or mental, slavery (basically – if someone owns you until you pay back your “mark”, it is slavery -even if you are willing). Even a weird religion – although there probably have historically been similar god/goddess/priest/priestess arrangements. But there are no cliches and I could hardly wait to see what happened on the next page and I never skipped a syllable of the sex scenes because they are usually about something more. The first three in the series were totally mesmerizing. I have always assumed the some of the fad for tattoos can be traced to these books. Since I said that I loved them, it should be okay to say Jacqueline Carey for those who didn’t guess.
So. Even if certain events, or character types or revolting actions are included, I will read it and enjoy it and go back for more if the author has sucked me in. So I guess my real deal breaker is bad or indifferent plotting coupled with cliche characters and actions.
On April 5, 2011 at 5:13 pm Eleanor said...
A crappy ending. Boring characters. Bad writing/editing/spelling. I hate Three-Penny Opera because the ending makes me want to throttle someone, it’s that annoying to me. I like quite a bit of Brecht plays, but that one…bleurgh. Boring characters I have to name authors, and I don’t want to piss anyone (living) off. And spelling/editing? If I paid money for your book, I really don’t want to be pulled out of the story by you using lead when it should be led. I know my spelling and grammar aren’t prefect, but I’m not getting paid for people reading my writing.
On April 5, 2011 at 8:14 pm Jane said...
My big no-no is unsympathetic characters. I’m a character slut, so I’ll forgive a lot of bad plotting and other storytelling infractions if the character grabs me. As an extension of this, the author’s voice has to appeal to me. If I’m struck by a clever sentence or turn of phrase I literally get a visceral shiver. I’m addicted to that feeling like it was a high from gambling or drinking.
I read an embarrassing amount of romance in my teen years and I was embarrassingly uncritical of it. As a result some of the standard tropes are deal-breakers for me. The big misunderstanding and secret baby both turn me off completely. I’m also not a usually fan of the years of separation between the hero/heroine or adultery on either of their part. I was trepidatious about Andie & North’s separation in Maybe This Time, but I trust you Jenny so I went for it. I really enjoyed the book, though to be fully honest I did kind of adjust their separation to a shorter period in my mind. Sorry about that!
On April 5, 2011 at 9:07 pm Clever Cherry said...
Jane – I’m with you on the voice thing and the love of clever sentences and phrases that make me shiver because of their beauty. I just read Garden Spells by Sarah Addison Allen and it was that way. Same with all 3 Barbara O’Neal books. I read The God Of Small Things by Arudhati Roy and I couldn’t tell you if the plot or the characters were good or believable because her mesmerizing voice carried me away.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:46 pm Jenny said...
Perfectly all right, readers do that in books all the time. Most people read Manhunting and just delete Jake’s mustache. I think I would, too, at the point.
On April 6, 2011 at 6:44 am AgTigress said...
I like moustaches, though they are best when accompanied by a full beard. So there.
On April 6, 2011 at 11:43 am Skye said...
No no no NO! I’m not a mustache person, but Jake’s was PERFECT! I think Manhunting was my first Crusie and I love it so much!
On April 6, 2011 at 12:47 pm Sierra said...
I like the mustache! In my mind, Jake looks slightly enough like Tom Selleck that it really works for him.
On April 5, 2011 at 9:09 pm Tabs said...
Ok, I don’t mean to keep whetting the curiosity, but I’ve definitely read the book you’re talking about and I didn’t care for it.
But, speaking on the author’s craft, I buy every one of her books as soon as they are released because she cracks me up. I also think she sets a book up marvelously. I vividly remember picking her first book up in a used bookstore, laughing at the very first line, and being positively HOOKED by the time the first paragraph wrapped up. I find very few authors can draw me in like that.
On April 5, 2011 at 10:50 pm Jenny said...
That’s what’s so frustrating. Her voice carried me through the whole book, even though I didn’t like the second one. The second one ANNOYED me. But I didn’t stop reading because of that fabulous voice and wonderful characters and the really, really well done comedy. I’ll try one more, but if it’s the same as the first two, I’m done with her until she announces she’s learned to plot.
Also, she sets up the two books I read with completely useless prologues which annoys the hell out of me. The premises are interesting (although one was TDTL iffy), but she uses the prologue to explain what the premise is instead of just writing the damn story.
Her voice is so good. She’d be brilliant if she learned to plot (she’s got characterization and setting nailed).
On April 5, 2011 at 9:17 pm Tabs said...
When I start yelling “Will you people stop having sex and move some plot already?” I find that we’ve reached a deal breaker.
Declaring “You’re an asshat who doesn’t deserve love!” is another.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:00 am Katie said...
Ah, yes. Know those feelings well.
On April 5, 2011 at 11:07 pm Joelle said...
I hate it when the main characters die. I mean, Seriously?!? I am STILL mad about Message in a Bottle, and that was more than 10 years ago. Won’t read anything by that author, either. There’re enough sucky things in life; don’t spend all my time getting me to love a character only to yank the rug out from under me in the end. Talk about emotional hijacking.
On April 6, 2011 at 12:11 am Jennifer said...
I don’t see the point in reading a romance where someone DIES. Seriously, it ruins the whole thing to get me all depressed, thanks.
I second that movie, and Sommersby.
On April 6, 2011 at 12:35 am toni said...
I was livid about that one, too. That movie could have been amazing.
On April 6, 2011 at 7:38 am German Chocolate Betty said...
I read a book by PaulAuster about a dog (in German the book was called “Timbuktu”, don’t know what the English title was — and I only read it because a friend gave it to me). Anyway, it started out okay, but then the dog’s life just got worse and worse, and he got shuffled from pillar to post. Finally, the book ends with the poor dog, sick and confused, on the highway and he gets HIT BY A CAR. That’s how the book ENDS.
AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!! So not only does the “hero” die — but it’s animal cruelty in there too.
I was sooooooo upset. I will not read anything from Paul Auster any more. (I know this is a childish reaction, and I know that this story is all too true for too many animals, but dammit, this is one of the reasons why I have adopted so many pound pets over the years. It literally gave me nightmares.)
On April 6, 2011 at 10:06 am MaineBetty said...
Totally with you on that. I must have the assurance “No dogs are harmed in this story.” I saw a book in the children’s section once titled “My cat died today.” I walked around B&N quietly tearing up for some time. Sheesh. My cat hadn’t even died. He was just old.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:48 pm Jenny said...
I think those are for the express purpose of helping a kid whose cat has died. More grief counseling than story. Like The Tenth Good Thing About Barney. But yeah, that could have a more subtle title. My Cat Went To Heaven. My Cat Went To a Farm Upstate. My Cat Crossed the Rainbow Bridge and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt.
I should write children’s fiction. The titles are so much easier.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm Jenny said...
I know. I can’t stand that. Old Yeller. Jesus.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:23 pm Molly said...
I’m with you. The only huge fight I’ve GOT into (:D) with my oldest sister was when she wanted to read “The Call of the Wild” on the family road trip. Like there aren’t a million books to read in which a dog doesn’t heroically die. She got her way and then proceeded to sob through that entire section of the book while I SMIRKED and CHORTLED from my nest in the back of the 1966 Chrysler station wagon.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:34 am Chelle said...
That movie ANNOYS me whenever I think of it. What Toni said, movie could have been amazing. The guy WASN’T EVEN ON A BOAT DURING THE ENTIRE MOVIE. If you’re going to kill off someone you’re making me fall in love with, at least give me a d@#$ warning. And don’t be subtle about it, either.
ARGH.
On April 6, 2011 at 11:47 am Skye said...
I will never read another Elizabeth George novel because of this. She is a brilliant writer, but she committed an emotional hijack that I consider so heinous I cannot abide her anymore.
On April 6, 2011 at 12:14 am Jennifer said...
My current pet peeves beyond everything mentioned here:
(a) prologues because they are usually telling a drastically different story from the rest of the book, which only tangentially relates to the rest of the plot, and you don’t find out why it’s even related until 3/4 of the way through. Why are you starting me OUT of the book all confused?
(b) prologues in murder mysteries which have an anonymous hot female being slaughtered
(c) anything told from the point of view of the creepy male serial killer who gets hard from killing and boinking corpses or whatever. Especially if they do this repeatedly. Can’t I just read the mystery and not your creepy thoughts?
On April 6, 2011 at 12:27 am Tree said...
My “in general” short answer is when it breaks my SD (suspension of disbelief) Bar whether that is in plot or character development. I’ve read books where I find my own reaction to something in the plot or a character would be completely different than the main character’s reaction as written, but I’m okay with it if it makes sense for that character. For instance, one of my favorite things about Crusie’s writing is her dialogue–often because I think, “That was such clever banter! I wish I had comebacks so ready like that.” Rarely is the dialogue something I would say in those circumstances, but I love it, and it works well for the characters. It makes sense.
I once read a fantasy book where the main character’s love interest had been living in service to a very disciplined and celibate religious order for close to 20 years, and he threw all that away in a heartbeat to bed her on a cold, winter’s night. I dunno. It just didn’t make sense to me. I would expect there to be more conflict (internal or external) before he succumbed to such temptation. When a book breaks my SD Bar, it reminds me that I’m actually reading a book. It makes me think, “What the heck? That doesn’t make sense at all,” and brings me away from getting lost in some wonderful story. I want to get lost in the book, not wonder if I missed something somewhere that would make the character’s action make sense.
I will say, however, that I can forgive a lot of “that doesn’t make sense” in plot if the characters are strong and well-developed. So, I guess that means my SD Bar for plot is slightly lower than my SD Bar for character development.
On April 6, 2011 at 3:44 am Kira said...
I’m with you on SD – especially historical novels where the author gives the main characters attitudes that are anachronistic to their time. Ditto for Jane Austen imitations that try hard to get the language right, and fail.
I usually open a book to the middle and skim through a page or two. If it’s trite or badly written, I don’t bother with the book.
BTW, Jenny, your Santa novella was omnibused with something that was plotted exactly like a porn movie. I wound up getting rid of the book. Sorry.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:33 am Anna Cowan said...
this one’s tricky, though. As you’ve said, anachronistic behaviour can jar, but so can attempts to be “true” to the times.
For me, the most interesting thing about historical fiction is trying to put myself in a time when social restrictions were different, and then to think “But they were still human, with human desires and will and flaws. They would have said the wrong thing, offended without meaning to, spoken without self-consciousness about the times they were living in.” Finding the timeless human inside the times is what I love.
Because we only have written documentary of language from older historical periods, we can only guess at how they would have actually spoken to each other in an informal setting. For me, evoking the informality/intimacy is more important than trying to write as they would have spoken, which we can’t know anyway.
Sorry, rant. I feel quite passionate about this
On April 6, 2011 at 7:14 am AgTigress said...
Anna Cowan, you make important points. The key to understanding history is learning to identify the ways in which people in the past were different from us, and the ways in which they were the same.
Historical novels that just plonk a lot of 21stC people, complete with modern beliefs and sensibilities, down in Regency London or Medieval Scotland, and dress them up in period costume, are a total waste of time. But some compromises do have to be made, even by writers who are meticulous about historical accuracy, because the average modern reader simply does not share the mindset of those people in the past, and will not enjoy the book if it is truly and deeply authentic. Similarities must be stressed, and some of the differences sidelined or even ignored, so that the reader can at least understand and sympathise with the characters’ feelings and motivations.
Language is just one example: it’s the same problem as using (modern) foreign languages, which we touched on above. The dialogue needs to be comprehensible to the reader, but it also needs some symbols of its original form as reminders that the characters were not, in fact, speaking modern English. They cannot be allowed to speak in their own language (medieval Scots, let alone Scottish Gaelic, would defeat most of us), but nor can they speak straight modern American English without appearing absurd.
We all have different triggers about ‘authenticity’ when reading historical fiction, and I suspect that I am not alone in completely avoiding all fiction set in the historical place and time in which I specialise. I am also at an age now when I can spot historical errors from my own experience in fictional representations of periods that are within living memory, and it is maddening. A recent ‘literary’ novel I read on a train journey, a book that has been praised by critics, had the most glaring errors in its Second World War setting. Errors that completely undermined basic elements of the story.
The occasional reading of bad ‘literary’ novels, incidentally, is a worthwhile exercise, because it deepens one’s respect for the many good writers of so-called ‘genre’ fiction.
On April 6, 2011 at 7:47 am German Chocolate Betty said...
I understand, I am getting pickier and pickier about such things. For example, I read “Sandringham” (or was it “Sandhurst”? I forget). Anyway, the half-completed book by Jane Austen, which someone later finished and put out on the market. I couldn’t tell you exactly where the new author picked up, and it actually wasn’t all that bad but by two-thirds through I knew I was no longer with Jane. Not that there were any really dramatic errors or whatever, but the rhythm and feel of the language were off somehow. Again, couldn’t really put my finger on it, but it just felt wrong.
With most historical fictions I just make up my mind that I want some entertainment for a few hours, and am willing to overlook most of the more obvious gaffes. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised by the author, sometimes they live down to my (low) expectations. Of course, if the story is well written, I can tolerate more.
On April 6, 2011 at 8:32 am Anna Cowan said...
the only author I can imagine reading in your era of expertise and enjoying would be Dorothy Dunnett. That woman is a genius, and I will aspire my whole life to write historical fiction like she does.
On April 6, 2011 at 8:57 am AgTigress said...
Hope I’m not nesting the replies too much.
I haven’t read any of Dunnett’s novels, but by all accounts, they are excellent, and she was certainly a woman of quite remarkable talents, a successful painter as well as a writer. Her historical novels are set, I think, in the late Medieval/ Renaissance era, a period on which I am pretty ignorant, so I would be willing in principle to read them.
My problem about reading fiction set in my own period of expertise, the Roman Empire, is that I automatically go into ‘work mode’ when reading them rather than ‘leisure mode’. I can’t help it. I start questioning things, saying, ‘what’s her authority for that? Is there any evidence, or did she make it up?’, and looking in vain for the footnotes…
On April 6, 2011 at 4:44 pm Jenny said...
LOL. That’s what happens to me when I read fiction or watch movies. “Who the hell is the antagonist here? What did that scene do for the story? Why, why would you violate character like that?” If you’ve really studied something, you can’t turn it off.
On April 6, 2011 at 6:26 pm glee said...
Ah, Anna Cowan, how right you are
DD was, indeed, a genius and even overwhelming plot tricks were fabulous in her hands.
Because of her, I am conscious of folks riding horseback 30 miles to give a message and 30 miles back in time for dinner. Or people who land an airplane flight in Milan and somehow are in Positano 30 minutes later. Or writers who put a mountain range 30 minutes by car West of Sacramento, CA.
Also because of DD, I traveled to Malta (a strange place to meet 100 friends if you happen to live in San Diego).
I recently read a Widow Lit (new term for me) book (not a Romance but a book with Romantic elements) where I wanted to slap the heroine upside the head for excessive wallowing in her non-connectedness. The book itself had wonderfully lyrical passages that I read aloud to others, great descriptions of Provence that made me want to live there, and wonderful other characters. But our heroine was a disconnected dipsh*t. And I’ve been there so should really have been very sympathetic. I finally came round to thinking it was because the book was in first person with only the heroine’s point of view and I just really didn’t care about her pov after a bit. Interesting.
I used to just read things and like them or not. Now I recognize why I didn’t like them. 60 years later, I’m learning to read critically. My late, English-teaching husband would have loved it.
Jenny, it’s all your fault
On April 6, 2011 at 4:40 pm Jenny said...
I remember Betsy talking about historical accuracy in costuming once and saying that dye colors in the 18th and 19th century were pretty dreadful so when we recreate the clothes, even if we’re meticulous in following old patterns, we tend to get it wrong anyway because we naturally gravitate to prettier colors.
On April 7, 2011 at 3:46 am colognegrrl said...
I think that’s why – having majored in History at university – I’ve been refusing all of my editor’s suggestions to try and write a novel which is set in a former time period. It didn’t help that she was hoping for the funny voice I use for my contemporary stories. Even if I can clearly see the humor in Jane Austen’s books, I don’t think I could do it, let alone consider all the historical details. And of course it doesn’t stop with the way people dressed or talked, I think the most important thing is to get their way of thinking right. I just don’t dare to try. And just the thought of all that research necessary before even writing the first paragraph turns me off, too.
On April 7, 2011 at 4:11 am Jenny said...
I tried to write a historical once. It was awful. I think you either have a voice for it or you don’t. I don’t.
On April 6, 2011 at 6:50 pm CrankyOtter said...
There was an excellent interview on NPR’s Fresh Air the other day with a (male) author who spent a long time writing an historical novel, only to have to completely re-do it once or twice to adjust the language. On version was too modern, one version was so careful of the time period as to be unreadable by modern audiences, and the final was a compromise. He had a great word for it, along the lines of ‘authentish’ but more clever than that. Kind of cool to hear that just days before this discussion. But I completely agreed with his point that one must be careful to give the reader the impresion of authenticity without fully going native. And that line between authentic sounding and not is a little like porn in that you know it when you see it.
As to the characters attitudes, I’m fairly confident that I can judge the decade a historical was written by the characters’ attitudes. There are all sorts of tells from the ages to how the romance progresses and how spunky the heroine is. Most of the historicals from the 1970s-1980s are wallbangers for me for this reason. But like many of you, I consumed a vast number of romances uncritically in my youth that wouldn’t get past chapter one today so I know I read and liked some of these back in the day.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:37 pm Jenny said...
That anthology was very badly planned. I learned my lesson there. There was my new action/adventure romance paired with two re-issued erotic romances; not a mix that’s going to make people happy.
On April 7, 2011 at 3:49 am colognegrrl said...
Exactly. What were they thinking when they planned this?
On April 7, 2011 at 4:11 am Jenny said...
They were thinking they’d make a quick buck. Needless to say, this was not a Jennifer Enderlin project.
On April 6, 2011 at 8:05 am Emily said...
One of my pet peeves, and it’s fresh in my mind because I’ve just encountered it again, is self-indulgent authoring, where the author creates a character who is the embodiment of their ideals, or when one of the characters breaks into a rant about one of the author’s pet issues. The book becomes all about preaching to the reader rather than about telling a story, and the author’s issues hijack the whole thing. I’ve had a few authors who I had previously enjoyed, and even respected, do this to me, and it’s even more frustrating because it usually seems to happen when the author’s got quite a body of work under their belt and seems to feel that now it’s okay to hit their reader with a sermon. One of the authors who did this to me first created a main character who seemed just too perfect to be true, and even their imperfections were thrown in as charming quirks that made me just want to throw the book through the window, but then she made it even worse by ditching the plot for chapters at a time to expound on everything from perfect parenting to gay marriage. All well and good, but I JUST WANTED THE PLOT. Not that I’m bitter.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:42 pm Jenny said...
That’s a huge problem for me, too. And it’s a real deal-breaker: I won’t read that author again. I don’t care if I agree or disagree, get your speeches out of my stories.
On April 6, 2011 at 8:07 am Tinkara said...
It’s not always the author’s fault that the book is not what it’s supposed to be. Because I absolutely loved the book in English, I decided to re-read it in my native language. BIG mistake. The writing style was so different and the humour was utterly lost.
Also I don’t understand what happens in an author’s head to change the genre in the middle of a series. From contemporary to science fiction. For a few chapters I was thinking, when is the hero waking up? Is he hallucinating? It’s one of the few books I couldn’t finish.
And also I detest stupid heroines, over the top perfection of the protagonists, from moose to beauty makeovers, geographical or historical inconsistencies and too many stereotypes.
And I freely admit, I’m one of those who shaved Jake in Manhunting.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:42 pm Jenny said...
Almost everybody did. I got letters. Sigh.
On April 6, 2011 at 5:05 pm Moth said...
I pictured him with the mustache on my first read through. Almost as a psychological test. Could I think of an man with a mustache who looks sexy to be my Jake stand-in? I know I thought of somebody, but now I can’t remember who.
I always figured you were using Tom Selleck for inspo in that book. Was I right?
On April 6, 2011 at 6:02 pm Jenny said...
I think it was more of a Burt-Reynolds-from-Smokey-and-the-Bandit, but I can’t remember. I do know that when I read it now, he doesn’t have a mustache or look anything like that.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:14 pm Carol Anne said...
Oh come on, what is so bad about a mustache? Jake will always have a mustache.
On April 7, 2011 at 12:35 am Skye said...
Oh, totally Burt Reynolds in that role! Sexy with the mustache. Never thought of him otherwise. I consider him the sexiest of your characters. However, I find the characters Bob created in your first two collaborations to be my absolute, sexiest, favorites. Yummy.
On April 7, 2011 at 1:58 am Jenny said...
Bob’s a master at doing macho Alpha guys.
On April 7, 2011 at 3:58 am colognegrrl said...
I loved BR in Smokey and the Bandit, and I don’t see why it’s so hard to get over that moustache. It was just a part of Seventies’/Eighties’ fashion, just like the intricate cravats (is that the word?!?) of the Regency period (I think I’d start giggling if I met one of those guys in real life…)
So why can’t we just picture a good-looking guy here, no matter what his facial hair looks like? Sorry, but a moustache as a deal-breaker seems a little narrow-minded to me…
On April 6, 2011 at 9:09 pm Clever Cherry said...
I liked the mustache. It made him less than perfect. I don’t want flawlessly beautiful women and I don’t want flawlessly handsome men.
On April 7, 2011 at 2:37 am Merry said...
Dear Lord, people write Letters-to-the-Author about something like that? I figure if I really hate the male character enough to write about it, I should write a damn novel rather than pester the author who wrote the original character. I mean, if my novel wins the Rita and the Lottery and get published more places than Oprah*, that would be a lot more telling, right?
*Hell, I can dream. And you never know.
On April 7, 2011 at 4:10 am Jenny said...
You wouldn’t believe the letters I get. One of them yelled at me for Min’s weight in Bet Me because it led to animal abuse. I forget why, something about eating meat. And one of them told me I was irresponsible for having thirty-something heroines because it was bad for women in their thirties to have babies, they should have them in their twenties. Then there was the guy in prison who asked me about my cats. It’s so nice that Mollie gets the reader mail first.
On April 6, 2011 at 10:34 am erin said...
OMG! I am sooo curious as to who you’re talking about!!! I can’t figure it out so obviously I haven’t read her. Could someone please privately e-mail me the author’s name just to kill my curiousity
pretty please? efender1@gmail.com
I’ve read every single one of these comments and you all are fabulous. I’m generally a lurker and not usually brave enough to comment but I’m dying here
On April 6, 2011 at 4:52 pm Jenny said...
Done.
On April 6, 2011 at 6:31 pm Renee said...
me too!! renee.nickel@yahoo.com
On April 6, 2011 at 10:43 am Renee said...
Bad endings – or more specifically unhappy endings. I need a smiling payoff. I feel the same about movies. Worst ending ever in a movie – Pay It Forward – horrendous. Also I hate repeated phrases, not just within a book, but in all of the books that author has written. There are a couple of VERY prolific authors that I just can’t get into reading because of that – same lines different setting. Geez, let’s expand our horizons here! But the thing that will make me stop in the middle of a book is BAD dialogue, dumb dialogue, boring dialogue, droning dialogue. I think you get the point.
And now, this is annoying me. Curiosity is going to KILL me. I want to know what book/author this is – I want to compare my thoughts and opinions with yours. I want to know if I’ve read this author or this book (although the description doesn’t sound familiar). If she’s got the other stuff down, I want to know if she has a book where she’s found her plotting genes. ARGH – sometimes curiosity drives me insane. Taking deep breaths here, letting go of the intrigue and wonder. It’s okay, I’ll be fine in a minute LOL.
On April 6, 2011 at 11:47 am Jessie said...
Could some of you who belong to the Cherry Forums go over there and tell us what authors/books we are talking about here. I predominantly read mystery and fantasy with occasional forays into romance – although I used to read it a lot and I haven’t the foggiest idea most of the time. And I keep looking to see if anyone has put anything in book discussions over there so Jenny’s blog doesn’t have to be adulterated. And anyone who writes amusing dialogue and characters I am willing to try regardless of the deficits in plotting. So I’m a humor slut. Sue me.
On April 6, 2011 at 9:28 pm Molly said...
Yes, please do! Tell us why you like it in Book Discussions.
On April 6, 2011 at 1:14 pm Susan D said...
Oooh, great comments, so much more to add now.
Agree about repeated phrases. Always annoying. And even more obvious when reading aloud, as I do when recording books at the Canadian National Institute for the Blind. My current project has EVERYONE commenting “aha” in conversation, EVERYONE clearing their throat every few pages, and EVERYONE wearing khaki shorts and polo shirts.
And the Safe Sex thing…. I’ll add: just prior to sex, he hesitates and she says, “It’s okay, I’m on the pill.” Arrrgh!!! It’s been nearly 30 years, and there are STILL writers who haven’t heard about HIV/AIDS?
On April 6, 2011 at 4:10 pm Jill said...
1. preaching The only book I actually chucked was a Silhouette that preached animal rights in a very annoying way
2. telling me the the motivation of the characters-on every other page
3. too much showing off how much research you have done. Like pages of what the jungle looks and the names of all the flowers or 3 pages of very technical computer stuff or the first paragraphs of the book describing driving down the street.
These are specific to certain authors but can apply to lots of others.
On April 6, 2011 at 4:58 pm Jenny said...
There go all those pages on how to cook a diner hamburger. Damn.
On April 6, 2011 at 6:03 pm Jessie said...
How can you have pages on how to cook a diner hamburger? You take a ladle of melted fat from the container on the back of the griddle and slosh it on the griddle. The you take a patty out of the giant hamburger patty sack you got from your supplier and slap it on the hot side of griddle. Put butter (or oleo) a hamburger bun and put it on the cool side of the griddle to toast. You flip the patty. Then take the bun and put a smear of mayo on the bottom half. You arrange some lettuce, slice of tomato, slice of onion (all from their pre-prepared bins) on the plate or on the other side of the bun, depending on how the manager wants it set up. Flip the patty onto the lower half of the bun, then put bun and patty on the plate. Add some pickle. As you put the plate on shelf for the waitress, bellow “Order Up” and put the order slip beside the plate. At no time do you actually check to see how things cooked. It is all timing and routine.
On April 6, 2011 at 6:04 pm Sierra said...
Actually, I agree with Jill on all of her points, but cooking is my exception for number 3. If you’re describing how to make a delicious dish, I will not only keep reading, I will take notes so that I can try to make it myself later. Especially if you write food so well that it’s almost porn and I end up craving whatever it is.
And Jenny, you write the best food porn out there. Every time I read Agnes and the Hitman, I have to go make pancakes or an omelette. Maybe This Time causes banana bread and cookies to spontaneously appear in my kitchen.
On April 6, 2011 at 5:07 pm Brussel Sprout said...
Just want to second Anna on the Dunnett front. The woman was amazing. I remember reading the Lymond series for the first time. I was in love with Lymond, I read those books every second I could escape from work/life, and as soon as I finished the series, I re-read them all. And I still love them. They would break deals re many of the comments, but she’s a wonderful world-builder and every single thing counts.
I’m reading a book I love at the moment and am drawing it out because I could eat it up in one gulp. It’s Peter Carey’s Parrot and Olivier in America, and so far, it is wonderful. It has some of the dealbreakers listed, e.g. literary, descriptive, and full of ideas of the author’s that he wants to explore and share.
I’d also say another literary novel that I loved and found very romantic (tho’ not HEA) was David Mitchell’s The 1000 Autumns of Jacob de Zoet. Definitely lots of description, but every single word contributes to the world and it’s like a beautifully made play/movie because everything matters.
I don’t mind sad endings, so long as they are the right ending for the characters. Too often I read romances where I think, meh, the people weren’t real, the situation wasn’t real, and the ending isn’t real. I close the book and the characters flop over like someone left a cut-out of Capt Jean Luc Picard in the rain and it collapsed all over a Klingon cut-out. Bah.
On April 6, 2011 at 5:17 pm Lora said...
Dealbreakers (in no order):
Atrocities against children (e.g. child rape and strangulation in Falling Angels…I just CAN’T STAND IT)
Lengthy detailed descriptions of bla-diddy-bla-bla-bla (e.g. The House at Riverton–excellent writer, I don’t have the patience is all)
On April 6, 2011 at 7:16 pm erin said...
Thank you!!! I’m the kid sis in the corner easedropping and then tugging on your pants “WhAT? What was that?”
Your devoted Crusieverse lurker
On April 6, 2011 at 10:06 pm Dee said...
I didn’t have time to read everyone’s comments, so sorry if this is a repeat. I only have two deal breakers. One, I get bored. Sometimes the author could’ve done something about it, sometimes not. Either way, the book is going. Two, the author didn’t follow his or her own rules. This one drives me insane. I cannot get past it, mainly because it’s completely avoidable. Follow the rules you made.
On April 7, 2011 at 4:13 am Jenny said...
Whoa, the answers are showing up in the wrong places again. I think we sprained the blog again.