Maybe This Time and White Space
Sep22010
In other news, Maybe This Time is in stores! You didn’t now that? Have you been under a rock? This is what to look for:
It’s the red one in the middle. The others are just up there to show you what might have been.
Okay, now that we’ve got Maybe This Time on there for the homepage for the website, let’s talk about something else. Because at this point, we’ve pretty much beaten the book to death. (Spoiler space is still open two posts back for conversation.)
I just got off the phone with a reviewer who said she’d been talking to writers groups about books with too much dialogue, and they’d told her that they had to write lots of dialogue because editors want white space on the page. I said, “No, that’s not right.”
This began because it’s true that many readers will pick up a book and flip through it, and if there are big blocks of type on a page, they’ll put it back because they’ve been there before. Big blocks of type mean the writer is explaining something, that nothing’s changing, because you throw in a paragraph break when something changes. That means that books with big blocks of type are often (but not always) full of authorial interruption to explain stuff like the Gatling gun. Or what the character is feeling. Or memories. For many books this translates into no story on those pages which annoys people who read to find out what happens next, which is the majority of readers.
With me so far? Big blocks of type are not bad. White space is not good. Big boring stretches of exposition or interior monologue are bad. Scenes in which things change and move are good. It’s not about the look of the page, it’s about the content.
So why is “more dialogue” not a good idea? Because dialogue has to be there to move the story, not break up the page. Because dialogue has to be a struggle, not an exchange of information. If you take that big block of exposition that explains something, and make it into a conversation where one person explains something to another person, it’s still not story, it’s still exposition, and it’s still going to be boring unless there’s something at stake. In other words, a conversation in which one character tells another character how to defuse a bomb that’s in front of them is going to be boring unless you get on the page that they’re really scared, or that one is scared and one is foolhardy, or that this is a conflict they’ve had before because one of them doesn’t listen and he’s the one who has to defuse the bomb . . . . It’s like sex scenes: If all you’re doing is giving instructions, write a manual. A scene is a unit of conflict between the protagonist and antagonist in which they struggle over a goal until one of them wins.
Don’t worry about white space. Worry about conflict and change, scene arc and climax. Cut out all the stuff that doesn’t matter (“A machine should have no unnecessary parts”). The white space will take care of itself.
Loading ...
86 Comments to 'Maybe This Time and White Space'
On September 2, 2010 at 3:38 pm Cherry Clawed said...
Many thanks for the writing advice. I swear. This blog could be a textbook/mentor all in one.
On September 2, 2010 at 4:43 pm Betty Fokker said...
Part of the reason I love your novels is that they move like gangbusters, and most of that is driven by realistic dialog. But I have read quite a few “info-dump” novels I really enjoy. Sometimes the info-dump is put into dialog, sometimes not. But it *interests* me. So I think that comes down to the skill of the writer as a wordsmith.
On September 2, 2010 at 4:46 pm Merry said...
In technical writing, bullet points are frequently used to let the reader skim down the list without having to do much actual reading. Plus, bulleted lists create a lot of white space around the text, so it makes things look snappy, so everybody’s happy. Right?
Huh.
I once edited a manual that was almost 200 pages long. Every single paragraph was written as a bullet point. It was insane. Even worse: the whole manual was written in PowerPoint.
Moral: writing of any kind is fraught with peril and should not be attempted by people who spend their time worrying about the white space.
On September 2, 2010 at 5:07 pm Jenny said...
Any good idea can be abused by people who don’t take the time to understand why it’s a good idea. Argh.
On September 2, 2010 at 8:25 pm inkgrrl said...
Like chocolate. Chocolate is much abused. Poor chocolate.
On a happier note, LOVED Maybe This Time!! Thank you so much for the spooky ride!
On September 3, 2010 at 8:43 pm skye said...
Ah, Merry, the glam world of technical writing and editing! It’s just so damned exciting that we should be writing highly entertaining fiction about it and get paid boatloads of money (by a man who is on a horse, of course). But your story about bullet points and PowerPoint is the best I’ve heard yet. Do you remember when PageMaker made everyone a graphic designer? (I hear echoes of Argh!!! in the misty past. And screams about white space, too!)
On September 4, 2010 at 4:46 am Jenny said...
The worst Power Point story I ever heard: A college prof was asked to give a eulogy for a young woman he had been mentoring and he did it in Power Point.
On September 4, 2010 at 9:43 am lee said...
Worst one I ever heard was a guy who proposed using Power Point – emphasizing how they would work together and the breakdown of monthly chores. She said no.
On September 4, 2010 at 3:43 pm Jenny said...
Yeah, that was pretty much a head’s up right there.
On September 2, 2010 at 5:19 pm Chris Stovell said...
I’m going to commit the last three lines of your post to memory and repeat them often!
On September 2, 2010 at 6:54 pm Lola said...
This explains why the last book I read was so unsatisfying. Lot’s of dialogue, but I keep thinking – boring, this book isn’t going anywhere, nothing’s happening yet. Until about page 100; then the story started and the dialogue was about the conflict. Most of it was anyway.
Yay! More Jennyism’s to copy and save.
On September 2, 2010 at 8:09 pm Thea said...
Woohoo! Somebody sure made certain the right cover got in place. One sinfully luxurious cover.
On September 2, 2010 at 8:15 pm Jean said...
Darn! Before I read the text after the images, I thought perhaps all three covers had been released, and I was leaning to looking for a gold or maybe a white one. I didn’t have any attractions to the red one at all.
On September 2, 2010 at 9:12 pm Clever Cherry said...
Don’t know how I managed it but I posted the comment meant for this blog on the Jen interview blog.
I. Give. Up.
On September 2, 2010 at 10:00 pm Mary Stella said...
Jenny, that gorgeous red cover really catches the eye of travelers in Miami Int’l. I just saw it prominently placed in Books n Books. Woot!
I took a break from the long trek to my far off gate to hover by MTT and casually mention to other shoppers that I’d just read it and it is terrific.
On September 2, 2010 at 11:38 pm Savvy said...
I absolutely LOVED the book and I cant wait for the next one. I read it in one day like all your other books, once I start reading, I just cant seem to stop. I’ve got my sister and a friend hooked to your books too. You are truly the only author that I have been able to read ever single book you’ve written. Thank you for giving me something that I enjoy reading.
On September 3, 2010 at 4:28 am Karen said...
Just finished reading MTT on kindle and it was really wonderful! Am definitely going to get a hard copy when it becomes available here – which may be awhile yet. I hope you keep writing for a long long time. Really love the way you write
On September 3, 2010 at 9:45 am Lora/LitDiva said...
But I *love* to write big blocks of text. Not so great for my hobbled pacing, though. Note to self: make things HAPPEN in book.
On September 3, 2010 at 11:35 am Jenny said...
You can write them as long as you want, Lora. And then you edit . . .
On September 3, 2010 at 12:43 pm Diane (TT) said...
St. Martin’s Press has done good work getting the book out there! Would you believe that it’s in my Kroger in Jackson, TN? Do people buy hard covers in supermarkets? I’m not sure why that surprises me, I buy other books in supermarkets, but I don’t think I’ve ever bought a hardcover there. For me, a hard cover purchase is an anticipated and planned-for event, not an impulse-buy at a supermarket, but there may be times when publishing gets ahead of one and gets the delightful surprise of a new book by a favorite author. I don’t think there’s an independent bookseller here (although there are some used bookstores), certainly I would rather give them my business than Kroger, but Amazon Prime reduces the need to look for a local store. I won’t need it as badly for books in this town, but will need it more for things recycled/ organic/ whole grain, apparently.
On September 3, 2010 at 1:27 pm robena grant said...
Stayed up past midnight and finished MTT. It was fabulous. I love it when a book can sweep me away like that. I didn’t even watch the news last night. Anyway, now I want to start from the beginning and read it all over again and that seldom happens. I usually wait a few months before a re-read.
So excellent return to single title solos, Jenny. Thank you so much.
On September 8, 2010 at 3:00 pm Jenny S said...
I stayed up until 2 am to finish this book! I was exhausted the next day, but it was totally worth it. And I re-read it the next day.
On September 3, 2010 at 2:43 pm CrankyOtter said...
It’s good that you point out that perhaps we associate white space with the plot moving along as I’d never really thought about it that way before. I’ve been known to put down giant hunks of text unread because my eyes track poorly through dense type. (example:
My thought: Why did they she the word “because” twice in that sentence? Oh, she didn’t, my eyes just jumped to that word and inserted it in the adjacent line.)
But it seems highly likely that your reason is in my subconscious too when I shy away from dense text. One great thing about the digital age is that I can copy hard to read text and reformat it before printing it out so I can read it.
That said, one reason to use bullet points is because of the white space. Part of my job is to write documentation – “how to” manuals – for highly technical equipment. It’s a constant strugle to balance completeness of information vs readability, and white space is a HUGE factor to readability, as is flow. Sometimes I move the more extraneous details to the end rather than have outline number 5.3.3.1.1.2.1.1, but sometimes? I have outline number 5.3.3.1.1.2.1.1. It drives me crazy, but some days it’s the least worst option. Writing a how two manual in paragraph form usually means it won’t/can’t be read. There’s even been a study showing that people who have difficulty reading the instructions perceive the task to be harder than those who found reading the instructions easy (the researchers used the same instructions in a plain font and a highly stylized font and asked how long people thought the task would take. There was about a 25% difference in the responses).
But I totally agree that dialogue shouldn’t be used for explanation. Someone should have told Steig Larsson. (No, I haven’t forgiven him yet.)
On September 3, 2010 at 7:36 pm AgTigress said...
But the proportion of white space in a printed area is affected by many factors other than the number of new paragraphs. Other crucial issues are: font; point size; leading; margin and header/footer area (European readers of US paperbacks grind their teeth at those sometimes barely-existent margins); and the overall width of the actual printed area which, related to the point size, gives the average number of words per line. Slow readers are greatly assisted by short lines, e.g. by text printed in two columns: fast readers are hindered by exactly the same thing, so a given layout will increase readability for one reader, and diminish it for another.
On September 4, 2010 at 4:45 am Jenny said...
I agree with all of that. But if you go back to the original problem, people mistaking white space as a good thing rather than a by product of a good thing, you can see how all those aspects could be misinterpreted. As the population ages, that small print becomes a pain in the ass, and larger print increases readability and the pleasure in reading that page. Doesn’t mean large print makes for a better book.
On September 5, 2010 at 4:04 am CrankyOtter said...
That makes a lot of sense. I hate giant margins. I reformat to remove as much margin as I can. Those “new” taller paperbacks err for me because they have too little margin in the fold and too much at the outer edge (along with the usually heavier paper and they don’t fit on my paperback shelves). I know part of the reason for them was to space out the lines, but I think they put the space in the wrong place.
I’m also not yet thrilled with the eBook formatting – some publishers do better than others, but at least I can choose the font size. (Their font choices are not anything to write home about yet either.)
MTT’s format/font didn’t annoy me in any way, which means I liked it. The only thing that drew my eye to the font instead of story was the rising height on the double-f, noticable on the word off. It was actually kind of pretty.
On September 3, 2010 at 2:56 pm Gin said...
Especially now, when there are so many opportunities for writers to network instead of working in solitude all the time, we seem to play a version of the old game where people sit in a circle and whisper some rule about writing into the next person’s ear, and so on, until it gets back to the first person, and it’s all garbled.
A lot of the perceived rules of writing (like the white space thing) probably started out as a response to someting problematic, like writers navel-gazing in big chunks of angst and exposition and other non-dialogue-y things. So someone said, “you need to have more dialogue to break up the chunks of text” and then someone else said, “a good way to check that is to squint at the page and see how much white space there is.”
Lo and behold, a new rule was born — write more dialogue so there’ll be more white space. And there’s a germ of truth to it, and it’s a good shorthand advice for anyone whose work is unbalanced away from dialogue, but for these rules to work, you need to figure out what the first person in the circle said and not just what the last person ended up with.
I should say that I’m a bit weird among writers, who tend to resent rules. I like them, but only after I’ve figured out the WHY of them, so I can use them instead of following them blindly.
On September 3, 2010 at 4:46 pm Jenny said...
The why is crucial. Otherwise they’re just another set of dumb rules. And as you said, once you know why, once you know what you gain by following that rule, then you also know what you lose by not following and decide if it’s worth breaking.
On September 3, 2010 at 4:45 pm Brenda said...
Okay, I really love that last cover. I like the one that ended up as The One, but that last one is pretty awesome too.
Went today to the closest town with real stores and could not find the book. I’m stomping around Target, muttering and pulling hair out, and finally, FINALLY find THE LAST ONE there and snagged it up. Insta-fix from Cranky Brenda to Elated Brenda.
Thank you, Crusie, for being SO Crusie. It makes life so much sweeter.
On September 5, 2010 at 7:07 am Jenny said...
Thank you, Brenda!
On September 3, 2010 at 5:50 pm AgTigress said...
I have always assumed that the undoubted popularity of a LOT of dialogue in modern novels is because of readability scores: a matter of register and Flesch (and other) Reading Scores, rather than the visual black/white balance on the page. Books with a lot of dialogue are bound to be ‘easier reading’ than those with less dialogue (unless the dialogue is in some impenetrable dialect, of course).
As a non-fiction writer, dialogue is not something I do (and it is really, really difficult to do well), but I still have to pay careful attention to reading level according to the type of thing I am writing: it has to be a lot easier and more colloquial for a magazine article than in a scholarly book. This is chiefly a matter of specialist vocabulary and sentence length and structure: sentences with multiple subordinate clauses tend to be attacked by editors unless the editor is another professional in one’s own field.
Although it is perfectly true that a good writer can write description etc. in a highly readable, even gripping, style, any writer, good or bad, is more ‘readable’, in the sense of catering to a lower reading age, when writing dialogue, because we all speak in comparatively short, simple sentences.
On September 3, 2010 at 6:12 pm Jenny said...
I don’t know any fiction writer who does readability scores, Ag. I did them all the time for my business writing MA, but nobody in the MFA program ever mentioned them. I think they may be more common when writing Easy Reader fiction for kids, if anything.
Come to think of it, I’ve never run one on any of my fiction.
On September 3, 2010 at 7:23 pm AgTigress said...
I don’t think writers usually think about them consciously, and I doubt if experienced editors do, either (both those groups should be able to judge the readability of a text just by, well, reading it), but I suspect that the blunt instrument of actually running a readability score would be just the kind of thing that would appeal to some kinds of management people, who would be able to conclude that a high proportion of dialogue equals ‘easier’ reading, and would therefore decree that dialogue is good and description bad.
That’s probably over-simplifying, and of course the scoring thing takes absolutely no account of the important point that you make, which is essentially about how interesting and gripping the text is. People will read on if they are hooked, whether the characters are talking or the author explaining. I am not disagreeing with you at all, and I have no patience with Flesch and its ilk, because language and comprehension cannot be represented in figures. I just think that somewhere, in the dim recesses of publishing houses where the bean-counters lurk, readability scores may be seen as meaningful.
On September 4, 2010 at 4:43 am Jenny said...
I always thought it was interesting that magazines like Time and Newsweek are written at an eighth grade reading level not because people are stupid but because easy reading is better communication. I remember some textbook experiment when they asked several different kinds of writers to write a chapter and then gave them to kids and tested them on comprehension, and the clear winner was the section written by newsmagazine writers.
On September 4, 2010 at 9:58 am McB said...
I sometimes think that people forget that communication is the point of writing.
On September 4, 2010 at 9:04 am Naked Under My Clothes said...
I had to write to Flesch scores on two different projects. On one project, having to check my readability scores actually helped train me to write more simply (shorter sentences, subject-verb-object). I think my finished product was better for my experience with that process. I could have, and should have, learned the techniques in a different way, but having to check the score made me actually DO them instead of going “yeah yeah I know how to rite gud lv me uh-lone.”
On the other project, the scoring thing was a nightmare. The concept was a long word (long words: inherently bad?? WTF? This is science!). It had to be explained, and lots of options surrounding it enumerated, in a very limited space. Finishing the project became a matter of gaming the scoring system.
Overall, I think the scoring system was accidentally useful to me but it’s more often misused. Sort of like a book–I opened it and learned from it for the first project. For the second project, it was used to club me about the head and shoulders.
Tools. Not magical answers. Even hammers aren’t good for everything.
On September 3, 2010 at 9:14 pm Deborah Blake said...
Got my copy yesterday! And MADE myself wait to start it until I finished the wonderful Maria V. Snyder book I was in the middle of… So tonight is Crusie night! Woot!
And I love the red cover–it has much more oomph in person…
On September 3, 2010 at 11:47 pm Betty Fokker said...
I’m reading the book … 3/4 the way thru and what I don’t know is that my husband’s new android phone has a feminine computer/eerie voice that says “is anyone there?” when he gets an email and he has left the damn thing in the kitchen right behind the baby monitor so it sounded like there was a fucking VOICE in my 7 month old daughter’s room so I start down the hall and I promise you whatever was in the room was going into the light whether it wanted to or not with my metaphorical foot in it’s ectoplasmic ass. Of course, there was nothing there but a peacefully sleeping baby and a wild-eyed redhead who had been innocently reading a ghost story when Fate decided to pull a shit-for-brains-prank.The sound of my (for lack of a better description) WRATH coming down the hall woke my husband who came to see what was going on, and filled me in on the android + voice thingy. Then he thought this was sooooooooo funny. Becasue he’s not the one with adrenalin shake from girding his loins for a ghost smack-down. Seriously, my hind brain just booted right up and left my frontal lobes wandering around with nary a clue. I blame the book. And this means you are also culpable for my fright, Crusie. I’ll be challenging you to a duel when I see you at the book signing, so bring your second.
Jesus and Peanut Butter, that scared me so bad I’ll have to take some thorazine.
On September 4, 2010 at 4:47 am Jenny said...
Oh, hell, any threat to my kid and all my adrenalin guns fired. I feel your pain.
On September 4, 2010 at 10:54 am Susan D said...
Oh my stars, Betty, that is one horrific experience!
(But not fair to blame Jenny for your mindset; I suspect you’d have shot off the adrenalin-meter even if you’d been reading recipes for rice pudding.)
On September 4, 2010 at 3:48 pm Betty Fokker said...
Nope, pretty sure Crusie’s inability to write a nice, shallow, non-believable two dimensional character is to blame. If I hadn’t been sucked into the book, my forebrain could have thought, “what’s the computer voice in the kitchen?” instead of my hindbrain going off with “there is a GHOST in my BABY’S room! Killlllllllllllllll!!” See? Totally the book’s fault for being well-written. I’m an American. I know how to shift blame.
On September 5, 2010 at 8:08 pm Micki said...
Sorry to snicker at your pain . . . oh, who am I fooling? We all know it was hilarious after the initial shock wore off (-:.
But, after Jenny finishes her myriad projects, I vote she write the “Scare the Bejeezus out of Betty Fokker” book. Because that way we’ll get two shots of entertainment for the price of one (-:.
(Still waiting for my book to come, meep, meep.)
On September 4, 2010 at 12:21 am Barbara (you don't have to call me Barb) said...
Your book is one of two new releases (just two!) mentioned in the latest issue of Woman’s World, a weekly women’s magazine. Take a look at the mag when you’re in the checkout line at the grocery store.
On September 4, 2010 at 12:50 am pennyoz said...
Jennie I don’t totally agree about dialogue. I’m also an illustrator so for me perhaps I see the dialogue in part as illustrations. Character developments. And it’s where I get a lot of my humor. The essential character interaction. I think perhaps it’s best said that whatever suits the moving forward of the novel. In my opinion the great Gone with the Wind gets vry heavy in parts. Those lengthy explanations of the whys and wherefores of what is happening slows the forward motion of the story.
I think the rule is to break the rule. But know it when you are doing it and have your reason for doing it. Be able to expain WHY you have done it this was. This means that you have to KNOW the rules so you can break them.
I love dialogue. As long as it’s good. And it belongs there.
I haven’t got a copy of your new book yet, but will. I love your novels. And I also would have chosen the white cover version. Red is a very dramatic color. If you have ever seen the artwork of Lizbeth Zwerger she uses a lot of white space and minimal spashes of red to great effect. I also liken dialogue (or more accurately – effective dialogue) to more or less the same effect in a novel of white space.
Dialogue is also very memorable. Great lines like Rhett Butler “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn!”, or Scarlett’s “I’ll never be hungry again.” …
I was at a writer conference just recently and there were a few of publishers and other
speakers who referred to movies all the time, ie., dialogue driven, in their talks on the novel artform.
On September 4, 2010 at 2:31 am Kay T said...
I got my book from the FedEx guy the other day and wanted to take it to bed to read… but the time was never just right. Then company came for the weekend, and the time is still not right. I want to be able to SAVOR this book! On another note I was in the B&N and could not find the new red Crusie, so even though I already had my book from the FedEx guy, I MADE THEM find the books (5 whole copies) which were still in the box in the back room. This really pisses me off. Sorry to rain on anyone’s parade. It probably is not one of those book stores who count, but if the Kroger can get their act together, don’t you think a book store should be able to? Of course I did not find the book that the nice lady handed me, but I did put it back face out with the other new hard cover books.
On September 4, 2010 at 4:49 am Jenny said...
Thank you for fighting the good fight, Kay.
And now you know why I spend pub week under my bed. Argh.
On September 5, 2010 at 1:42 am Kay T said...
You are welcome. Please do not smother in all those dust bunnies – oh wait, that’s my bed with the dust bunnies.
On September 4, 2010 at 6:29 am savvy2 said...
I love this about white space. It goes back to your 5 questions to ask for each scene you write, doesn’t it? Which brings me to your Jennifer Weiner’s interview and your response about writing sex scenes, where you say:
“There’s a protagonist and an antagonist and they’re in conflict over something and at the end of the scene, the struggle has changed them both and one of them has won. If everything goes beautifully and there’s no conflict, you just write ‘And then they had great sex,” and move on to the next scene.’
Can you give an example of what kind of conflict the man & woman can be having during the sex scene? I’m not sure what you mean, but I don’t think you mean it’s about the sex itself.
On September 4, 2010 at 3:48 pm Jenny said...
Well, the easy example is the first sex scene between Davy and Tilda where everything goes wrong because he wants one thing and she wants another; that is, he’s trying to dazzle her and she’s trying to prove to herself that she’s as exciting as her sister. Neither one of them is thinking about the other one or sharing anything, and underneath it all, Tilda is trying to protect herself by making sure she doesn’t lose control and blurt out all her secrets. Tilda wins because she keeps her grip, but they’re both changed at the end of the scene.
Or there’s the scene in Welcome to Temptation which was started out as a generic hook-up until Sophie couldn’t concentrate and suggested they watch TV instead, and Phin started to pay attention.
In both cases it’s not about the sex. It’s about inability to trust and need to dominate or score and ego and fear. Once they get to a place where it’s about making love, there’s no point to showing the scene because there’s no conflict.
On September 4, 2010 at 4:40 pm savvy2 said...
Ah-h-h. Thank you!
On September 4, 2010 at 9:50 am lee said...
I don’t get to do this very often:
Dear Author (that’s you) –
Thank you for writing me a new book. I loved it!
Love, Lee
On September 4, 2010 at 3:42 pm Jenny said...
Dear Lee,
I love your blog and I think your postcards are freaking amazing.
Thank you.
Jenny
On September 4, 2010 at 12:39 pm JLondon said...
Jenny, I live in London and would love to buy the Kindle edition of your book, but apparently I’m not allowed to. I’m gutted. If I search Amazon.com on the Kindle itself, there is no sign of the book at all; if I use my desktop I get the message ‘not available to customers in the UK’. I guess this must be something to do with rights? I’ll have to buy a hard copy from Amazon.com and have it shipped over here, or get a friend to buy it and mail it to me, but if I can pay to do that it seems illogical that I can’t pay to do the same thing digitally.
On September 4, 2010 at 3:41 pm Jenny said...
I have no idea what’s going on there. If you can buy the hardcover in England, why couldn’t you buy the Kindle? That makes no sense. I could understand if they decided not to sell it anywhere in England since nobody has the British rights, but one form and not the other?
On September 5, 2010 at 5:14 am JLondon said...
I can’t buy it in England in any format, but I can buy a physical copy online from Amazon in the US and pay to have it shipped to the UK. Standard shipping takes a ridiculous 16-30 business days (I can’t wait that long) and express shipping is $35 on top of the book price. If I can legitimately import a physical copy, it would make sense to be able to pay to do the same thing digitally, save a tree, time and money.
On September 7, 2010 at 11:06 am Theresa said...
JLondon and anyone else over here in the UK – Checkout http://www.bookdepository.co.uk. I got my hardcover MTT from there, delivered last week.
On September 4, 2010 at 1:56 pm Merry said...
@McB, no no no. Communication is not the point of writing — at least, not technical writing. The point of tech writing is to not get the company sued because you didn’t warn the customer not to plug widget A into gadget B as it would then explode.
On September 4, 2010 at 2:08 pm Merry said...
And may I just mention that when not on the subject of writing, McB is a genius? Downloading MTT from Audible ensures that I have almost 11 hours that I can devote to my extensive list of chores-around-the-house while simultaneously being entertained, enthralled, and educated.
Mind you, this also means that I have one less reason to avoid doing the dang chores, but I suppose that’s just as well.
On September 4, 2010 at 10:31 pm McB said...
I thought Jenny said that Widget A/Gadget B scenes were not good writing?
Ah yes, the wonders of multitasking. Kids. See, they do listen when you talk.
In other news, I was local my local B&N today and MTT was not on the shelves. I made a fuss and that was Remedied. For the record, May is one very creepy ghost. And she’s supposed to be the more sane spook.
On September 5, 2010 at 7:09 am Jenny said...
Widget A into Gadget B? Oh, like Insert Tab A into Slot B?
On September 4, 2010 at 11:19 pm Merry said...
Kids? Kids? Why, I’m old enough to be your younger sister, ‘hon.’
My only trouble with listening to MTT is that every time someone says “Alice?”
I think “Remember Alice? There’s a song about Alice.” And then my mind wanders off onto thoughts of Arlo Guthrie, and there isn’t any — I will eat my hat if this is a spoiler — reference to Arlo Guthrie in this story.
On September 5, 2010 at 10:46 am Sierra said...
The Alice song that pops into my head is “Go Ask Alice”…which is now stuck in my head again.
Thank you, Warehouse 13. It’s been there ever since their looking glass episode.
On September 4, 2010 at 3:49 pm Betty Fokker said...
The book. She is good.
On September 4, 2010 at 3:54 pm sharon said...
Jenny, brilliant book. Bee-you-tee-ful cover. Thank you for a wonderful read!
On September 4, 2010 at 11:25 pm Clever Cherry said...
And looking at your what’s coming up blog, the thought of a future Nadine, Carter romance sparkles with potential.
On September 5, 2010 at 2:37 pm Jessie said...
While Jenny has successfully referenced characters between books in the past, it can be very distracting. One of my favorite authors has a series that she has been writing for the past 25 years and has only about 6 books in it. So each book has a lot of referencing and recapping to bring new readers up to date on where the character is in its life. The last 2 books I swear were 30 percent rehashing of previous action and most of the time were tedious beyond belief. Jenny does what she does superbly and I have finished trying to second guess her.
On September 4, 2010 at 11:45 pm Pat G. said...
Just popping in to mention that today is International Vulture Awareness Day.
You can show your support by going to http://www.ivad10.org.
Carry on.
On September 5, 2010 at 5:11 pm Betty Fokker said...
awesome.
On September 5, 2010 at 3:24 pm KerryK said...
Not a romance but a book that ignored the “rules”, HARRY POTTER, was passed up as too long, kids have no attentions span. Some “powers that be” also said badly written. IMO when young boys flock to buy a book and start reading it before leaving the store, it is written correctly.
On September 5, 2010 at 3:31 pm Jenny said...
I think the whole point of the rules is for publishing houses to identify what will definitely never sell and what will definitely always sell. Since that’s impossible, they use the rules like a security blanket. What Goldman said about film is also true of publishing: Nobody knows nothing.
On September 5, 2010 at 10:05 pm Thea said...
For me “he knows me” had even *whoosh*ier impact because — didn’t see it coming. Stunned by the weight and aptness.
Of course, now I want Southie and Simon, their stories.Oh, could you fit in Isolde too?
You are so skilled, so lovely at what you do.
On September 6, 2010 at 1:44 am Jenny said...
Ah, you brought the very best butter. Good for you.
Well the plan for after Liz is to write Alice’s book which would be twenty-some years later. So Andie, North, and Southie will all be in their fifties and still kicking butt and taking names. I have a novella started that has Southie in it but it’s really about Alice at fifteen. No idea if I’ll ever do anything with that.
But thank you very much for a lovely compliment.
On September 6, 2010 at 6:55 am AgTigress said...
Jenny said: ” I think the whole point of the rules is for publishing houses to identify what will definitely never sell and what will definitely always sell. Since that’s impossible, they use the rules like a security blanket.”
That is it, exactly. It’s true in non-fiction as well, and for subject as well as style. If you offer an appropriate publisher a ms .about Turner’s paintings or the life of Mary, Queen of Scots, these will be looked on favourably, not in spite of, but because of the fact that there are already countless books in print on those subjects. Never mind that everything that can be said on these topics has been said, at least for this generation: the books were printed, and they sold, so those are okay subjects. But a ‘new’ subject that nobody has tackled before — ooh, not so sure about that, because there isn’t an existing book on it, so how do they know whether it will sell?
On September 6, 2010 at 4:30 pm Jessie said...
While I am waiting to get my hands on MTT, I have been crusing the new and have come across Pat Wrede’s September 1 (pcwrede.com/blog/) article on writing humor and she references Connie Willis’s chapter on writing humor and a conversation she had with Lois Bujold on why some humor stays funny. It plays into what Jenny was saying about there having to be substanace underlying dialogue (or humor as the case maybe). But I was also trying to figure out which of the elements of humor work so effectively in Jenny’s stuff. I don’t notice much word play but all the rest of the elements of humor seem to be there.
There is also some of her take on use of dialogue in her entry before the one on humor.
On September 6, 2010 at 10:43 pm Suzanne said...
I am trying to find the new book Maybe this time but it seems not to be available in Canada at least not in Ontario or Quebec. Any idea why?
On September 7, 2010 at 3:42 am Jenny said...
Because nobody in Britain bought the rights, and they have Canadian distribution.
I know, I know.
Publishing.
On September 7, 2010 at 6:24 am BJ said...
I know it is late to be commenting on the Banana Bread recipe, but I wanted to share some news about CHOCOLATE. I made brownies, the kind with chocolate chips, and substituted the oil with low fat yogurt (got the idea from Jenny’s recipe). Yum. The yogurt worked better than applesauce I’ve used in the past as an oil substitute. As I told my daughter, since the brownie mix (I didn’t do it from scratch) had No High Fructose Corn Syrup, and No Partially Hydrogentated Oils, the brownies were almost Healthy. And I figured, since I was REALLY craving brownies, it was better to just make and eat them, than eating large quantities of other foods, trying unsuccessfully to fill that need. Plus I got to show my toddler grandson the process, sharing the wonder of baking with him, as my grandmother did with me. Sorry off topic, but I thought some might want to know. Jenny, thanks for the idea.
On September 7, 2010 at 7:23 am Kieran said...
Jenny, I LOVED Maybe This Time!!!! I give it a PC for “Perfect Crusie.”
Is there a place to go to discuss scenes and dissecting them for craft purposes? There’s that scene near the beginning where Andie is drinking tea Mrs. Crumb gave her. She’s all by herself in her room, going over North’s notes. No *visible* antagonist. I need help with scenes like this. Thanks!
On September 7, 2010 at 8:57 am Janeen said...
Just read Anyone But You. OMG Max should have his own story!Love your books!
On September 7, 2010 at 10:17 am helen said...
The Canadian thing is weird. Because we can order it from Chapters.ca, which is a Canadian company.
On September 8, 2010 at 12:30 pm Carol Anne said...
It is really crazy. There are no Maybe This Time books anywhere in B.C. I pre-ordered my copy and the audio book from Amazon. Something strange going on with Chapters.
On September 11, 2010 at 5:49 pm Barbara said...
Chapters.Indigo.ca has the book … But the Chapters store nearest me [in Ontario] still doesn’t have it. Their computers have been saying it’s ordered and should be here any day for 2 weeks. I finally got tired of waiting and ordered online last night, and had no problem.
On September 12, 2010 at 12:34 am Jenny said...
Thank you for hanging in there, Barbara!
On September 7, 2010 at 11:10 am Theresa said...
I said this up above, but in the off chance that there is a UK reader out there who wants MTT and hasn’t yet figured out how to get it: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk
On September 7, 2010 at 12:50 pm colognegrrl said...
Against better knowledge, I decided to take the risk and open my Amazon parcel and take out the book. Just to look at it and maybe re-read the first chapters. Well, not a chance. I guess there’s not a word like “unputdownable” in the English thesaurus. But there should be.
(Is there? Spell check does not quarrel with me.)
On September 9, 2010 at 10:32 am Cary said...
Firstly – colognegrrl – I’m not sure I’ve ever seen “unputdownable” written down before – but I have been saying it all my life so that must mean something…
Jenny, reading your blog over the last year has drastically increased my previously dormant urge to write a book. I always knew it was something I would do one day, but blogs such as this one (gold!) make me want to do it TODAY! Must be very strict with self – not allowed to write a novel until finished stupid boring medical science PhD thesis. My genius for procrastination would probably lead to a completed novel while PhD thesis sits around getting dusty. Anyway, just wanted to say that you are an inspiration.
PS while waiting for MTT to arrive from the book depository, just read Agnes and the Hitman for the first time – loved it! Was a bit disturbed when the hitman turned up wearing a red banana. Took me a while to realise was actually bandana. made much more sense then.