Jennifer Crusie's Blog: Argh Ink

On November 23, 2009 at 10:45 pm Ericka said...

For me, it depends on the author. I hold some (you, John Sandford, Laurell K. Hamilton, Jim Butcher, etc) to a higher standard, because they (um, you) are just better. On the other hand, I’m more likely to forgive these same writers for what I see as an occasional misstep because I just enjoy their stuff more. Even though decisions have been made in books that I don’t agree with, I like the body of work well enough to keep coming back.

The biggest thing that makes me nuts is a lack of sense, or continuity, in the story. I’ll not name names to protect the guilty, but one writer in particular can’t seem to hold a coherent thought through an entire chapter. Her characters will not be going to the store because that’s what he wants so it’s bad and in the next chapter, she’s at the store because that’s not what he wants – there’s no logical flow. Makes me crazy. I got this person confused with someone else and picked up another book at the store the other day. I realized my mistake less than a chapter in and was pretty steamed. Gah!

Another thing that I fear is when an author gets a series based on their books. It’s astonishing how often the characters in the books end up sacrificed to the less interesting doppelganger from the tv.

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On November 23, 2009 at 10:59 pm toni said...

Yeah, I couldn’t even bear the concept of Dollhouse, so there was no going there.

For me, I’ll walk when someone betrays their own standards, their own values. I have a pretty lax attitude about writers writing in different genres, or exploring different themes. But when a writer starts to sacrifice their own ability at the alter of marketing schemes or quits digging deep for story and glosses over, repeating what they’ve done before, I’m outta there.

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On November 23, 2009 at 11:10 pm lee said...

I want to know why a writer is working on a particular thing. And I want to see if I can see what they are trying to say with a new direction or character or idea. If I like and trust the author, I reallyreally like a trust the author.

I found a new author over the summer (local mystery writer Archer Mayor – his stuff takes place in my backyard, for all practical purposes) and I was gobsmacked by the protagonist, and the ensemble acting of the cop shop where it all takes place. On returning home, I got some of his out of the library, and they felt really different, and I was less sure. It took three books to realize the POV changed from first to third, (about 6 years and books ago) and it took another couple to see why. If I hadn’t liked and trusted the author, I wouldn’t have read enough of the newer ones to see that he was telling stories that covered more territory, and he needed more eyes on the ground than he could get from his single protagonist.

I will cheerfully admit that I like the older books better. I prefer the middle years for Pratchett’s work, and early Joni Mitchel, and late Talking Heads. I always puzzle about what draws people into an artist’s work. I think people tend to like what they encounter first, and then follow an author or singer or artist to see if they keep on liking them. If the artist has a back catalog, I can see if I like a particular era of their work better, or if I can follow them through the arc of their career. And of course, I’ll keep checking to see what they are doing now.

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On November 23, 2009 at 11:36 pm Sierra said...

I picked up two of Pratchett’s recent titles a month or so ago – Nation and Unseen Academicals. I really enjoyed Nation, even though it was a complete departure from the Discworld. It sucked me in and I cared about the characters and wanted to see how they would get to the end. All the hallmarks of a good book, in my opinion.

As for Unseen Academicals, it was okay. Better than Making Money, but nowhere near his top stuff. The voice and layout seemed…off…somehow, and I spent the first half of the book trying to figure out what was wrong with it. Well, not wrong, but it wasn’t the same as the old Pratchett. Then I figured it out. In the forward, he thanked his assistant for doing most of the typing. I have a feeling that difference, as well as his illness, was the reason for the different feel. It was hard for me to read, sadly, because it didn’t sit right. It’s like putting on your favorite shirt and discovering that somehow one of the seams twisted. You spend the entire day fidgeting with it, feeling unsettled about something you normally love. The story was good, but it wasn’t the same.

I also picked up The Illustrated Wee Free Men, and I am encouraging any Pratchett fan to get it. The layout and artwork was amazing. There were even little sketched Nac Mac Feegles hidden throughout the text, interacting with the type. (One of them was even bashing a word off the end of a sentence with a club. ) If anyone hasn’t read this title, I urge you to pick it up. It’s one of Pratchett’s best, and the 9-year-old heroine makes me think of a Crusie heroine – angry, intelligent, stubborn, and determined to do what must be do. Tiffany is one of my all-time favorite characters ever. As are the Feegles.

Check it out at Amazon, even though you can’t see some of the best illustrative/layout choices.

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On November 24, 2009 at 12:16 am Melissa said...

I’ll walk if a writer pushes one of my hot buttons–like putting a rape scene into a book and then making it ‘okay’ because the guy said a quick ‘sorry’ afterwards. Or it’s okay because they’re engaged/married/destined for each other. I walked away from another author who started putting detailed torture scenes into her historical books. When she wrote one where nuns were tortured and killed, that did it for me.

I walked away from another author because she turned into Barbara Cartland. What was interesting with Book One became far less so by Book 12. The last two I read it seemed like all she did was change the names and the part of England where it took place. Even some of the dialogue was the same!

The reset button. When David Eddings hit the Magic Reset Button in the end of book 4 of The Dreamers series and wiped out all the character growth and learning that had been going on until that point, I actually got angry enough to throw the book across the room.

Lastly is the beating-a-dead-horse routine. If Author Z has gone down a path that isn’t quite working out, admit it and move on. Don’t keep writing 5more books that keep going on and on, violating the rules of the world or society that were so painstakingly set up in the first two books. And for heaven’s sake, DON’T recycle characters and plots from the Harlequin Temptations you wrote in the 80′s. I still remember them! (JAK/JC, I’m talking to you here.)

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On November 24, 2009 at 3:04 am Lilah Pierce said...

For me the biggest aspect that makes me lose interest in a writer is what they do with their characters. One of my most favorite authors loves to kill off his characters and he’s gotten to the point where he’s starting to have extremely freaky (there’s no other word for it) things happen to his main characters. Example: One of them had half his brain chunked out when he was imprisoned and underwent scientific experiments. Not only was it out of place, but the guy got his memory back and he was back to his secret agent life within a year or so. I lost so much interest in the author I almost stopped reading his stuff right there. But I didn’t. I gave him another chance. I shouldn’t have. In his next book, his main character, my absolute most favorite character out of any story, does his ex then another woman that’s been trying to kill him for years. It was SO out of character for this character that it completely ruined the book, the entire four books he is in, and the character itself.

As cliche as it may be, I LIKE happy endings. I LIKE the guy and the girl ending up together. I LIKE all the main characters surviving whatever strife they were faced with and having a “happily ever after”. Sometimes I feel geeky that I love happy endings but there was actually something I read in one of Jenny’s books that I feel couldn’t be more true. The book was Anyone But You. The scene was the book club meeting where they’re discussing Charity’s book. Someone talks about suffering through all the dates with Charity and how they want to see her make it because THEY deserve the payoff. I think about this often because for me as a reader – it couldn’t be more accurate. I struggle through the entire journey of the story with the character, therefore *I* want to be rewarded as much I want the character to be rewarded.

I respect wanting a story to be original so that it stands apart, but if it takes screwing up your characters in the process…well, you might as well not even write the damn book.

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On November 24, 2009 at 8:42 am Renee said...

I love my favorite authors, and wait anxiously for every new release. And because of you, I have learned not to pigeonhole my favorite authors. I’m not sure if it happened after the first or second collaboration of yours that I read, but I did have an author epiphany. You’re like wine. The flavor of a wine is influenced by the surroundings in which the grapes are grown, and while there are several bottles with the same name, they do not all taste the same. I think when you collaborate with someone as a writer, the collaborators writings are influenced by each other. The first collaboration of yours that I read was Don’t Look Down. And it took me until the middle of the book to stop thinking “this doesn’t seem like a real Crusie book”. The female dialogue was similar with it’s intelligence and wit, but everything else seemed off in my head. A few chapters later, I was totally in love with the book and I stopped thinking of it as a Crusie book and you morphed into CrusieMayer. Then I read Dogs and Goddesses and went through the same thought processes, and just the same as before you morphed into a new author that I loved. After that, I began reading the other collaborations with a sense of the unexpected and a ton of anticipation. So while Jennifer Crusie may be my favorite author, I really enjoy CrusieMayer, CrusieRichStuart, et al. And when my other favorite authors take on a collaboration, I will read with an open mind. No reader rage here, just enjoying the many wines in the cellar.

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On November 24, 2009 at 9:36 am Laura said...

It takes a lot to get me to give up on an author, but it does happen. There are three main reasons – boredom due to repeated plotlines or just bland plotlines, disgust – Laurel K. Hamilton’s move from action adventure to straight porn, and puzzlement – series/character goes off in a direction that makes no sense. I will periodically try these authors again because I remember how much I loved the earlier books, but rarely return to them. I accept that authors are people and may not have that many great books in them or else have chosen to go in directions I don’t enjoy so I don’t rage (except about Laurell K. Hamilton because I loved a truly religious and moral character who had sex); I’m just resigned to needing to find a new author to read. Alternatively I have followed some authors (like Lois McMaster Bujold) from pure sci-fi to fantasy/alternative universe books and been very happy. Based on your past stlye I expect to follow you where ever you go with your writing, but if you choose to go where I don’t wish to follow, I’ll forgive you and try again a few books down the road.

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On November 24, 2009 at 10:25 am R Dehaan said...

It really makes me crazy when an author sets up a book by having the character do things that are out of character for them or that I know go against their values, and act as if everything is fine, only to explain it later in the book and assume that is okay. What if I get so angry I throw the book across the room and never get to the explanation? Please, please don’t do it authors! Thanks for never doing this Jenny!

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On November 24, 2009 at 10:38 am Heather said...

Genre jumping has been a cause for me to develop Reader Rage. Genre creep I don’t mind so much. The JR Ward books seem to be going through that, going from romance to urban fantasy, but there were elements of urban fantasy in there from the beginning, so I actually like the developments. It’s when you go from a contemporary suspense romance series and decide to throw in a wizard because paranormals are a hit now. What?!? I’m all for genre experimentation by authors, but don’t screw up the internal inconsistency of your world. Or how about the nice contemporary romance series featuring MMA guys, and then have one of them … go into the future! *spittake!*

But my most fervent Reader Rage has to be reserved for LKH. I was a huge fan back in the day, e.g. take the day off work to read the newest book kind of fan. But then the ardor? ardur? ardeur? happened, and she decided to write bad porn. Yes, there was lots of sex in there before, but you are going to indulge in genre creep, at least be good at it. What other issues do I have with those books? How about, don’t take out personal issues on your characters? Just because you no longer like someone in real life, don’t make a beloved character completely morph into something else. Stop ending books with some kind of Magic Power Of The Day that fixes everything? Cover more than 6 hours in the timeline of the series’ story arc in a book? (Especially egregious if 4 of those hours are bad sex.) If a 5 page sex scene is good, it doesn’t mean that a 75 page sex scene is better? Umm, stop having all the plot happen in the last 2 pages?

The LKH list obviously can go on for a while. I’ve reached the level of acceptance, where I realize that I can never read those books again. But I have friends who are still firmly in the rage category, so all I have to say is, read the newest LKH? to see reddened faces and steam-emitting ears.

Ms. Crusie, I love many of your books, but there are a couple I just don’t like, mainly due to story and characters. But then again, I don’t expect to like all your books. (Reading Neil Gaiman’s blog for many years has trained me not to expect to like all of an author’s books. “George R.R. Martin is not your bitch” was one of his more pointed lines on the subject.”) But if you started to indulge in Bad Porn, or write Nadine’s story but have Ethan actually have been a vampire all these years, then an intervention might have to be planned.

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On November 24, 2009 at 11:37 am Bernie said...

Not so much reader rage, but definitely the eye rolling and snorts of disgust on surface cliché writing. Give me the depth & insights to human nature, or at least the characters motivation, and hey I enjoy a little originality as to why characters do the things they do. I don’t mind authors going in a new direction or genre jumping I am usually up for the ride. I might struggle with a character doing something I don’t agree with or understand, but if the story backs up their actions, cool I consider my horizons to have been broadened.

I too have had to give up on LKH’s Anita Blake series, which was so disappointing. I enjoyed the first 5-7 books so much and then just bad porn.

Regarding Joss Whedon… sigh… turned on Dollhouse once and Eliza Dushku was running around in some sort of S&m outfit and I was out. I was so frustrated with Serenity after loving Firefly. I did end up watching Serenity again after a long break in between and I think because I had lower expectations that I did like it better the second time around.

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On November 24, 2009 at 11:52 am Victoria said...

I don’t get reader rage, I just stop reading the author. My turn offs are: don’t follow their own rules, characters doing unbelievable things, bad world building, plot bait and switch, no self-editing, and general stupidity.

I stopped reading Laura K. Hamilton and sold my collection to a second hand bookstore because she traded plot and character for furry and fangy porn. Sherilyn Kenyon ditto plus excessive whining and the fact while I can and will suspend my disbelief, I will not hang it from the neck until dead. Or jump rope with it. I have issues with 99% of paranormal romances because I read widely in science fiction and fantasy.

If I like an author enough to collect them, I trust them enough to give them a second chance. It’s when they disappoint me two or three times in a row, that I walk away from them for good. My favorite author, Lois McMaster Bujold, managed to tick me off in one chapter and then redeem herself in the next. The offense was bad enough that if it had been a new, unknown author, I would have stopped reading right there and never picked up another book of hers.

As for Whedon, Serenity and Dollhouse…. I didn’t mind what he did with Serenity. I respect an author who will kill off characters in a realistic way for plausible reasons (and Wash dying the way he did, when he did served a purpose). Plus the Firefly series concept allowed for a darker twist on the usual romp. Whedon just upped his own ante and called his own bluff.

I haven’t watched Dollhouse yet, but that is more to my viewing habits than anything else. From what Whedon fandom is saying the first half of the first season was a zombiefied, mind altered Whedon–much like the series premise. He started to revert to type once the network execs were pacified. By the end of season one, we have classic Whedon back. It sounds like he’s starting another meta-story told in episode sized chunks (or a story collage, to use a Crusie-ism).

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On November 24, 2009 at 2:50 pm jessie said...

Good topic. Great comments.

Sue Grafton’s first 5 or 6 books I loved. The next I was drifting and I abandoned the ship at the letter I. Not with any rage, just not interested anymore. And I said to myself “well I am tired of reading the same stuff over and over.” Now I realize it was something else because based on the number of times I have read “Charlie all Night” and “Welcome to Temptation” reading the same thing over and over again is not a problem for me.

A friend swears she will never read Elizabeth George again because she was so upset when Deb (?) was murdered (She screamed and threw the book across the room). She felt betrayed. But she also obviously loved the character and wanted to follow her life and her children and her marriage and friendship and now the author was saying “no. I don’t want to do that anymore”. So my friend is mad. Will she read it again. She says not. Do I believe her? No. Why. Because the author can really write. It was not a betrayal of the character. It was just a direction the reader didn’t want the story to go. But the plots are still interesting, the characterization superb and she will get sucked back in when her curiosity about the other characters, who she also knows and loves, gets past her grief. This is why good series are so popular with publishers.

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On November 24, 2009 at 3:23 pm McB said...

I think EG bumped off Deb to keep Linley angsting. Mind you, I wasn’t that crazy about Deb anyway, and Linley is frequently a pain who deserves a kick; however, I did feel that EG was being a bit mean with that one. I haven’t kept up with the series, but that’s more about my low tolerance for angst than any gripe against EG. As Jessie, said, she’s a fine writer.

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On November 24, 2009 at 3:46 pm SnarkMaiden said...

I think there’s two kinds of reader rage. There’s Bad Writing Rage, whether that’s bad from the get-go or turned bad down the road. There’s Switch and Bait Rage; you changed on me and you suckered me into thinking you had my worldview and now you don’t. And there’s Entitlement Rage: you wrote a book that isn’t bad but isn’t the book I wanted (George R R Martin is indeed not your bitch). Sometimes it’s hard to slip a razor blade between Switch and Bait and Entitlement Rage; some S&BR has to be justified whereas ER is – IMNSHO – the reader’s fault. The reader has no right to be angry about the book the writer wrote, unless there is bad writing or they broke the implicit contract to write the story as best they can and holding true to the story promised by the words of the story – not the blurb or the cover picture or the reader’s expectations, but the words that went down. A writer switching genre – ER. A writer switching genre in the middle of the book – unless it’s badly done – ER. Most of the S&BR I feel is justified is a form of BWR after all.

You Made A Movie And Broke The Book Rage, though; YMAMABTBR strikes me any time I see pretty much any movie adaptation apart from Cold Comfort Farm. That’s the movie equivalent of BWR and S&BR in spades.

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On November 24, 2009 at 8:33 pm JulieB said...

OK, I have a different perspective on Laurell K. Hamilton, and I will throw another name into the mix. I don’t have reader rage, I don’t think I ever have. I have read things I haven’t liked, but I figure it’s not my cup of tea.
I think my problem with LKH is the same problem I have with Janet Evanovich. The stories stalled.
I enjoyed the LKH series and thought I would probably end up buying the books. I stared reading when she already had about 8 in print. I read the next one or so, but because of finances, I checked them out of the library. It was about that time that the plot sort of lost it’s way, and the series, started to become entangles in sex and politics. I don’t have a problem reading sex scenes, and actually, I think if some of the other commenters thought about it, they wouldn’t say they did either. I think there was a case of disappointed expectations, but I think there was an even bigger problem.
To which, I bring up Janet Evanovich. I actually was also late into her series. I first picked up “Visions of Sugar Plums,” not realizing it was part of a series many of my friends had posted about. I loved it, and it is still a fond memory. I ended up putting the pieces together at the end of the story and bought an ominbus version of the first three books and was hooked. Until. One character slept with a certain character.
My first reaction was “Wait, some pages are missing in this story — we had specifics for the other character.” Then, the story tried to go back and take the whole thing back. A few stories later, I realized that there was never going to be a character arc. Or at least, there wasn’t going to be one before I lost interest.
And that’s what happened.
Since those books are series, I think the overall arc is important. But for stand alones, I think anything goes. So either I loose interest, or shrug it off.

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On November 24, 2009 at 10:41 pm Marta said...

Reader disappointment can also be the result of the reader’s own perception, or lack thereof. If a book isn’t what the reader was expecting, or isn’t the type of book the reader likes, well, tastes differ. But, I’ve come across reader rants complaining about concrete, quantifiable issues where the reader’s flat out wrong.

For example, almost all of the negative reader reviews of Faking It on Amazon complained there were too many characters to keep straight. Then those same reviewers recommended getting WTT or Manhunting instead. I found that more than a little puzzling since both those books have more characters than Faking It, and if you’ve read WTT, you should already be familiar with half the characters in FI, so what’s the problem?

Another reviewer who disliked Manhunting said it was totally lacking in humor. That one left me wondering if we’d read the same book. I mean, even if you hated the story, there are some great lines in there. The covert golf game springs to mind. And Kate’s phone conversations with the financial clients, like, “It’s Titanic time over at your place, and you just gave the iceberg a mil for ripping a hole in your hull.” Which reminds me, Jenny hasn’t been properly credited with predicting our current financial mess over ten years ago.

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On November 25, 2009 at 12:05 am Ami said...

I totally appreciate that this is an author’s blog, but what gets me to the point of rage is when authors write their books just to please their audience. Perfect example is Evanovich. I loved her books, loved that Stephanie is so darned incompetent at pretty much everything, loved that Stephanie has good people in her life who give her support and guidance. But at some point all of that took a backseat to the mishaps. They’re funny, right? Okay, so the first time a car blows up, we’re scared and shocked. The second time, maybe it’s a little funny. By book fifteen, I can see it coming from a mile off. I am still convinced that the author took a dare on that one; Just how many times can grandma and sidekick set some object on fire? I put the book down and walked away, and read two other books before I went back to that one. And honestly, the only reason I finished it was because I paid for it. So, is that the author’s fault?
I love series writing. I am not ever supposed to utter those words out loud. Every college lit class I took drilled into my little noggin that series contain sloppy and or lazy writing. There is no message, no lesson to be gained for the reader. There doesn’t have to be character development because the author gets to come back. Re-visiting a previous character is for uninspired writers who pander to the uneducated masses. A professor actually said that. But what readers know is that a series allows us more time to spend with characters we love. We are emotionally invested in these people! So what if they’re only fictional? And sometimes it is hard to let go. Who or what else would we read? But readers also know how painful it is to watch a character we love continue to paddle their canoe with one oar. I think you call this “Too Dumb to Love.” And really, for anybody who writes, I am begging you, practice some Author Tough Love. Put a tired character OUT of their misery, and out of ours. Don’t let wild, adventerous characters fizzle into pathetic caricatures of their former selves. Don’t continue to write the same story line over and over just because you have an audience who loves it. Let ‘em go out in a blaze of glory, or on the back of a motorcycle with a donut hanging out of her mouth, or let them get the guy/girl their heart wants for all the right (or the wrong) reasons, or let the character figure out that he/she doesn’t need anybody else to complete him/her. Whatever. End it when it is time to end it! And when we whine, because we will (it is hard to let go), asking why, why did you have to end a story/character/plot we loved? the answer is, “because I’m the author and I said.”

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On November 25, 2009 at 12:47 am Sheena said...

Yes, Deb is the photographer who marries Simon St James, Lynley’s best friend who he (Lynley) cripples one night when they are young and drunk joyriding. I enjoyed some of Elizabeth George’s books, but a couple were too damn tragic, like Playing for the Ashes. It took me at least a week to recover from that book.
Mostly I don’t get mad at authors, I just stop reading their books. I stopped reading Sue Grafton’s stories when I realised I was accurately predicting the murder victims and the murderers, based on the formula to which the books were written. I stopped reading Jeffrey Deaver for a similar reason – I could tell when there was going to be an anticlimax, or when the danger was real, depending on how far through the book I was.

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On November 25, 2009 at 2:36 am orangehands said...

To me it doesn’t just depend on the author but why I read them. Take Lee Child. It’s the same plot (ok, not really, but it is), the same character (the only growth Reacher has done is in his muscle size), and the same Bond girlfriend (aka having sex with one woman per book cause he’s all manly, even though they really don’t have much or any on screen chemistry). But I keep reading him because I love the infodump. I no longer buy Hardback, but I will buy paperback (maybe not the week its released, but around there) because his infodump does it for me. Now if I was reading for character growth or even plot, I would have gently parted ways with him around book 7 (and that’s cause I give authors I like chance after chance), but because that is secondary to me I am more forgiving of the annoyances and keep enjoying it.

I agree with a lot of what’s been said. A lot of disappointment, and of course much venting, but not necessarily rage. Actually, when I was going through the comments the authors I am most pissed off at were first time reads, not seventh or eighth in a series I love. Hot Buttons or just shitty endings to an otherwise ok story. One of the worse was the guy who wrote a “romance” that was ok until the last few chapters, when the “hero” starts to wonder how much the heroine liked being raped by her father as a younger girl. Hot Button, Squick, and WTF, all rolled into one.

When I outgrow a series, I’m sad because I enjoyed it but it just doesn’t fit me anymore. When the author betrays characters or writing abilities or world building, its much more personal. But I don’t have a particular crossing line. Each author has a different credit with me, so I forgive or read more ‘meh” books before giving up. Anne Bishop truly started me in the fantasy genre, so while I didn’t really enjoy her last several books, I keep reading her even though at this point I’ve given up she’ll ever be what she once was.

Cat Scott said Then came Breaking Dawn and it was like being touched in a bad place by a favorite uncle.

LMAO! Maybe it’ll help you if you think of BD as horror? (I personally thought the baby scene was one of the goriest things ever, and cannot wait to see how they film it.) I never thought they were that great (I read the first cause the cover caught my eye as I was browsing the YA section, and the rest cause the boom created a whole bunch of very funny twi-haters) so I didn’t have the usual betrayal going into the story. But if another author did what she did, I would have been pissed. (As it was, after BD I mostly wanted to take a shower.) But that was one of the worse anti climax endings ever, even if we should have expected it by that point.

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On November 25, 2009 at 3:09 am Lily Blues said...

Whoops, I stood in *line*. At the lighted bookstore. Not in costume. I’m not that much fun.

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On November 25, 2009 at 3:33 am Melissa Blue said...

Publishers, in answer to a question above, would like a lot of books as fast as possible. Good publishers are patient. My publisher is nearing sainthood in its patience.

And, I think that’s the key with Series. It’s not really the author has gotten sloppy. At least becoming an author I finally understand that. But it’s that the author doesn’t have the time to do the story justice. Authors are being told, I think, if they don’t get it out fast they’ll lose readers, they’ll lose money. When the author will lose readers if they put out something that’s not their best.

Someone up-thread was talking about a series and it made me think of one I was reading. The first book was beyond awesome. I could not wait for the second book in the series. But a good percentage of the book was recap. The third book was even more of a recap. The fourth finally told the NOW story, but then it drifted and went to strange places and then suddenly ended. Reading the first book and all this author’s other books I know she can write better than this. I mean she has tons of connected books that I’ve yet to find one inconsistency. But this series was slotted to come out within a year of each other. And the stories suffered.

Anyway, I think Argh people are pretty much a testament you might lose some readers, but how many of us have pretty much rejoiced at ANOTHER CRUSIE!!! I know I have. I’ll wait, but I’ll know when the book finally gets into my hands it’ll be worth it.

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On November 25, 2009 at 11:24 am Marta said...

Fell asleep last night thinking about readers who totally miss points and facts in a book, and then blame the author for not having put those points and facts in. Woke up this morning thinking about nuances.

Now, I’m wondering how much research has been done on reading styles. If any. I mean, we all have our own individual learning style, and those styles can be sorted into a few more general categories. Learning is basically information intake and processing. Reading is basically information intake and processing. So, how much of reader disappointment is caused not by deficiencies on the part or the reader or writer, but by a mismatch in the their reading/writing styles? I’m not talking about genre preferences, HEA’s, plots, character development, etc. I’m talking about the way the author puts the information across and the way the reader takes the information in.

Which brings me to nuances. When I read, I take in every word, automatically sorting for significance and context to what I’ve already read in the book and what I know in general. For me, nuances play a critical part in where the words end up. I mean, if words were sheep, nuances would be the border collies herding them through the appropriate gates.

My DH is very literal minded, a black and white kind of guy. To him, gray is a theory he hasn’t quite bought into, and nuances are definitely a gray area. I once used our individual info-intake styles as an example in a presentation on applying Myers-Briggs personality typing to facilitate workplace communication. I made a cone out of piece of paper and held it to my forehead. For me, the narrow end of the cone goes against my head, and the wide end faces out. I gather in everything I hear and sort it the same way I do when reading. For the DH, the wide end goes against his head, and the narrow end faces out. If you want to get anything in there, you have to be aim precisely.

My point was neither style is better than the other, but knowing and understanding what style the person has, and tailoring your communication accordingly, increases efficiency and eliminates a hell of a lot of conflict. Doesn’t it follow that a lot of reader disappointment could based on misunderstandings due to different reading/writing styles?

There’s a scene in Manhunting where Kate and Jake are in the back room at Nancy’s, and Jake’s telling her he just lost at pool to Ben, a really bad player. Kate says, “What did you do? Fall on your cue?” There’s a lot more going on in the scene, of course, but I thought that line was really funny based on all the nuances I’d collected up to that point and my general knowledge of harakiri. Okay, and I have an overly-active sense of humor where wordplay is concerned. The DH, a very smart and knowledgeable man, would probably have missed it.

On the flip side, I can trip over a single piece of punctuation enough to throw me straight out of a scene. I often need to re-read a paragraph multiple times because I missed a word on the first go, and couldn’t sort it out. Character names that sound or look too much alike are problematic for me, because I file pertinent facts and nuances to the wrong one and end up even more confused than usual. There are inherent obstacles in all styles.

Of course, even if reading/writing style differences are behind some reader disappointment, it’s pretty much moot (no alligator intended). I mean, there’s not much a writer can do about it.

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On November 25, 2009 at 2:29 pm Rebecca said...

Bait and switch sets me off the most. One called “The Trouble With Magic,” presented itself as a mystery with witchy things going on, only to turn out to read like a script rejected by “Murder, She Wrote.” No magic, just an utterly pedestrian plot. The kicker, though, and what really made me hate it, was at the very end the author has the gall to hint that supernatural things are a-stirring, “Y’all buy the next book to see if I deliver on that now.”

More often it’s just disappointment that a favorite author can’t be bothered to even try anymore. Janet Evanovich has, sadly, fallen into that category for me. Used to love the Stephanie Plum books and eagerly await the next one. Since … 9 or 10 in the series, though, not so much.

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On November 26, 2009 at 7:37 am Emily said...

There are a lot of authors I’ve parted company with due to disappointment. Mercedes Lackey lost me ages ago when she started belting me around the ears with her Moral of the Day thinly disguised as character growth. Piers Anthony, way way back when, lost me when he stopped writing stories and started writing catalogues of puns submitted by readers. I could put up with mediocre writing style, but I need plot and characters I actually care about.

I’m with the previous posters on the subject of Laurell K Hamilton. There was a time when I’d buy her in hardcover, and then she stopped writing stories and each novel started to be simply a challenge to find new combinations of porn (we’ve had her do it in a bathroom with five guys, so what about if we make it in a car with six guys, two wolves and a woman! That’s groundbreaking!) But by then I didn’t care enough about her characters to care who they were doing what with.

I did get almost throw-the-book angry with one of my favourite fantasy authors when they pulled a bait-and-switch on me with one series. Fantasy all the way, it had a few rough patches but I trusted the author and knew from past experience that she sometimes got a little ragged in the middle of the series. And then the final book arrived, and suddenly it went from a high fantasy with gods and magic to spacecraft science fiction. That’s one of my pet hates. Not only does it break the contract with the reader that Jenny mentions, but it feels like a betrayal of the genre. It feels like the author doesn’t have enough faith in magic and marvels to let fantasy stand on its own feet; they have to apologise for the magic and explain everything away with technology.

The one that really drove me to rant wasn’t a book, though; it was the King Arthur movie with Keira Knightly in it. Where to start? With the build-up that claimed it was the “true” story of Arthur (?!? don’t even get me started!), although I would have had problems with it anyway. Keira Knightly with a plum in her mouth and strategic woad is not Guinevere. What they offered was history. What I got was a hodgepodge of bad history and bits of mismatched literature cobbled together. … Not that I’m still bitter.

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On November 26, 2009 at 3:05 pm Dixxy said...

I’ve loved reading these posts – what a passionate and thoughtful lot Argh readers are! I’m glad to be one of you! I’ve found two things really interesting that I can’t resist commenting on:
1. how many of the same authors come up again and again – both as authors we love and forgive and authors we got mad at! for example, LKH really has got to many of us – me included, although I have continued to read everything she produces (including the comic which really was blah!) and I think she had an awful awful phase when there were just too many men/creatures in her life and she just couldn’t not have sex with them and then angst about it. However I’ve got back into enjoying her more recent books. The best are probabably the ones where she is away from home because there are just less characters to cope with (and have sex with!) oh and the ones with Death since she doesn’t have sex with him! I keep forgiving LKH because I really like Anita and I like the violence and I even like some of the sex and I now know a lot of these guys/creatures and care about them too. But I competely understand you folk out there who’ve given up on her.
But it isnt just LKH, you all keep mentioning my favourite writers, maybe we Crusie fans really do like something in our reading matter that is similar (and no it isnt romance – Lee Childs and Jim Butcher and Pratchett) – it can’t be simply ‘great writing’ because I know friends who read other writers who get called great but they don’t do much for me. So what are we in love with I wonder? – cos to tell you the truth I am in love with these authors (or do I agree with Micki, from early on in this debate, that it is my drug addiction?)
2. My own view on reader rage – I don’t get mad unless the author really offends me (using false memory syndrome as a murder theme, killing off a character completely inappropriately, e.g. Wash in Serenity for example – yeh I know why Joss did it but it was too bloomin manipulative for me), but real reader rage has only happened a few times with me and that was usually with a new writer, new to me that is, so for example I threw Mary Wesley’s Jumping the Queue across the room and felt mad and sad about it for weeks, or do I mean years! The writers out there I have loved, I go on loving, I’m faithful like that – so you are Ok Jenny, you’re safe with me

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On November 27, 2009 at 11:07 am Marta said...

One thing that’s turned me off an author altogether is too abrupt of an ending. The kind of book that goes along just fine, great buildup, climax, and then nothing. I need more. A figurative cigarette, post-coital cuddle, anything to show the initial affect of the climax on the characters.

It doesn’t have to be full-blown epilogue. Just some kind of closure. Something more than ‘Clara pushed the villain off the cliff and watched as he was impaled on the spiky rocks below. The End.’ There’s one author in particular, a skilled and popular writer, whom I no longer read because I inevitably feel let down by the ending.

Speaking of epilogues, one of my favorites is the one in Jenny’s What the Lady Wants. Loved the bit about the ball game.

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On November 30, 2009 at 3:01 pm Carol Anne said...

I can relate to the above comment. It is the step towards the supernatural for me too. I did buy Dogs and Goddesses, after much deliberation, I read it with a bit of trepidation wondering what I was going to find. For me, I read with the story story arcs in mind, for the interest in finding out how three authors will write a story together and make it work. I do like how you work with Bob. Although sometimes it is “you just met this guy and now you are having sex..” Aside from that, I am a little bent (like a pretzel) and I grew up in the 60/70s and I like to have a choice. So…Wild Ride is probably not going to be my favourite as I am not a hugh supernatural fan. You Again, waiting, will be cautious. All that to say, the supernatural and the interest in it escapes me. In love with a spirit and having sex with whatever shape shifting familiar spirit is not what I look for when I want to read a good story. No matter how well written. Connect with a real human flesh and blood, living and breathing, skin to skin contact, even if it is “patting on the back-ala Min/Bet Me” which leads to a deeper relationship. Is that not what we read a good book for?
I know I am new to the site, have been a fan, so the direction to the supernatural is off putting even if well written. The new design is a job very well done. Very Creative. I like the “textures” but, again, tarot cards, well, I guess I am just getting to old or set in my ways, as I just cannot go there to consult familiar spirits about the future. The ride is wild enough without the bad spirits. Okay, will be quiet now, it is all about freedom isn’t. The choice to write and to read what you feel is being true to yourself. I really appreciate a well written story. As I said before, I do not like to be maniplulated or patronized, and I feel some writers have done that. You have not. You are just going in a direction I may not be following for a while. And, I really wish this whole vampire, werewolf stuff would just go away. It is tough enough for teens and young girls and boys to grow up without all this fantasy stuff.

Just another opinion and I guess it is the minority.

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