Romantic Comedy Rant
Nov202009
I love romantic comedy. Great romantic comedy is beyond anything epic or tragic or macho, good romantic comedy is difficult which is probably why they don’t make many. So when there were two romcoms out this summer, I really meant to go. Then life intervened. Then they came out on DVD and of course, I bought them. This is my business, I need to see what’s happening in my genre. And now I want to kill somebody.
The first one has two great leads, actors I really like doing a damn good job. Of course it’s about an uptight woman who lives for her job and the laid-back, life-loving man who liberates her, but I’m okay with the-same-old-story as long as it’s done really well with some surprises along the way. I don’t care that I know that these two people are going to end up together, I want these two people to end up together. I’m even okay with the quirky family, even with the quirky grandma which is my least favorite of all the quirkies, but I’ll buy it this time because she’s played by a lovable actress. There are funny moments. I laugh. The male lead is naked and very good at it. This is not great romantic comedy but I’m liking it.
And then we get to the wedding scene. And suddenly I realize that I’ve been here before in another movie with this same very likable actress. And I think, they can’t possibly be going to do the same damn thing, they’re playing off that previous movie on purpose, they’re going to do something new and different and . . .
They do the same damn thing.
I’m not kidding, it was the same freaking ending. It’s like the writers of that mess went to the Romantic Comedy Ending Store and said, “Hey, remember when this worked? Let’s just slap this sucker on the ending of the problematical one we’re working on. Nobody will notice. The other movie was fourteen years ago. All these things are alike anyway, and you know women: not very bright.”
That ending was such a betrayal. I wanted to write the actress and say, “Didn’t you notice you’d been there before? Don’t you get tired of that speech? How many grandmothers going into cardiac arrests at weddings that are revealed to be shams do you think are going to work? The other movie’s on DVD, for Christ’s sake, people are still watching it. WTF?”
Still I wasn’t angry enough to do a rant. They screwed up a romantic comedy. This is not new. Moving on. Then when the other comedy of the summer came out, I got that one and, after a long day, instead of doing the dishes, I sat down and watched it. As a treat.
I shoulda done the dishes.
Of course it’s about an uptight woman who lives for her job and the laid-back, life-loving man who liberates her. I have two theories about this:
1. Screenwriters live in LA, LA is a company town, the business is not forgiving of anybody who doesn’t give her or his heart, soul, and liver to her or his career, so all these screenwriters know are women who would cheerfully sell them down the river for huge grosses and a piece of the back end, and they think that all women are like that.
The sin here went beyond the cliche. For starters, the hero is a pig. Anyone who’s ever read one of my books or been in my car while I was driving knows that I don’t give a rat’s ass about Bad Language, but this guy has the maturity and sensitivity of Joe Francis. Much worse than that, he’s not funny. You know who else was a pig? Harry in When Harry Met Sally. . . . Remember when Harry tells Sally that all her male friends want to have sex with her because she’s attractive? And she says so you’re telling me that the only way men and women can be friends is if the woman isn’t attractive? And Harry says, no, you pretty much want to nail them, too. That was funny. Harry’s a pig, but that’s funny. This guy: all pig, no funny. Worst banter in the history of romantic comedy because they went for edgy and just got gross. Gross only works if there’s charm, people. See Tim Matheson in Animal House. Or Up the Creek. Tim Matheson used to be the gold standard in charming pig. Now we have this moron, although the vast majority of the problem was not the actor but the writing. George Clooney couldn’t make this stuff funny. Cary Grant would have cut his throat before saying these lines. In short, it’s bad.
So we have this pig of a hero which means there’s a lot of sexual stuff but it was junior high sexual stuff, the kind of “let’s talk about it and act like we’re really bad, heh, heh, heh, but not do anything.” There was a bit with a vibrating pair of underpants that made no sense–why wouldn’t she just excuse herself and take them off?–and a it’s-not-really-oral-sex visual joke (even worse than the one in Two Weeks Notice, and why do people think that’s funny?), and of course the heroine fell out of a tree and ended upside down with her underwear showing because . . . uh, because some fourteen-year-old boy in a screenwriter’s body thought that was funny. I kept watching it thinking it had to get better and it never did.
And then came the last scene.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen an ending to a movie that communicated more clearly how much contempt the writers had for their audience. I took it personally. I’m still fuming. I HOPE THE IDIOTS WHO WROTE THIS NEVER WORK AGAIN.
The resolution scene is the last moment when you see the happy couple together and know they’re happy. And this was a sex comedy so no surprise, they’re having sex. Sleazy but hey, the whole movie is sleazy, I’ll go with that. The scene starts with a black screen and the sound of somebody bouncing on a trampoline made of rusty springs. I have seen this woman’s apartment, it’s gorgeous and spacious, and I don’t think she has a bed that makes that sound. His apartment is also very nice, and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have a mattress that he found in a junk yard, either. But you know, squeaky mattress, heh heh heh. Also, if that’s the sound of his technique, he’s really, really bad in bed, but having watched him operate for the whole movie, that’s no surprise.
Then she screams that he’s a god! (big finish) and they turn the light on. Yes, you read that right, they turn the light on. This is the guy who’s been talking about orifices and the many ways to penetrate them for the hundred or so wasted minutes of this thing that I will never get back, this is the guy who’s a devil with women, and they’re having sex with the lights out. Yessiree, he liberated her all right.
Then she sits up, all rosy and satisfied in her lace nightgown. That’s what a great lover he is, he’s okay with her staying dressed for sex. He’s been calling her breasts everything but Abbot and Costello, but he doesn’t actually want to see them. Well, he can’t anyway. The freaking lights are out.
Then they banter. It’s really, really bad banter, but if you’ve stayed for the entire movie, you knew that was coming anyway. It’s also chipper, relaxed banter, the kind of chat you’d have after going for a good run. If they’d really both come screaming, they wouldn’t be talking, they’d be trying to get blood back to their brains. But not these guys, nope, their brains are full of blood, coursing with the stuff.
Then, of course, they decide to do it again–hell, I would too if I could banter immediately afterward–and he reaches over and turns out the light. He reaches over and turns out the light. They get to the end of the movie, and suddenly he’s Amish.
If you want to do a PG romantic comedy, I understand you have to fudge the nudity (except this sucker was an R, so why?). And if you’re doing what is essentially a sex farce, I get that you end with a sex scene instead of something that has some emotional resonance. But a good sex farce should not be PG-13, and a good romantic comedy is not going to be about a misogynistic moron who has the sexual maturity of Beavis.
I’m mad at the people who made these movies. They have no respect for my genre, they’re sloppy and lazy and condescending. I will forgive the makers of the first one a lot, but thinking that romcom lovers wouldn’t notice the same damn ending is insulting. And the sheer stupidity of the second one . . .
Look, there’s only so many times I can watch Moonstruck (John Patrick Shanley so it’s not as if the Y chromosome prevents great writing romcom writing) and Ten Things I Hate About You (Karen McCullough Lutz and Kirsten Smith although here’s a heartbreaker: Lutz co-wrote The Ugly Truth). I need good romantic comedy. I need somebody who’s serious about the genre to write decent scripts so that the good actors will make something I want to see again. Until that happens, I’ll stick with my DVDs. His Girl Friday never gets old (Charles Lederer from Ben Hecht’s screenplay). When Harry Met Sally . . . holds up beautifully (Nora Ephron). How to Steal a Million is dated and it’s still great (Harry Kurnitz). A New Leaf (Elaine May), Return to Me (Bonnie Hunt), Grosse Pointe Blank (Tom Jankiewicz), The Lady Eve (Preston Sturges), Father Goose (Peter Stone who also wrote Charade) . . . it’s not like there aren’t great examples that show how it’s done, it’s not like the genre doesn’t make money when it’s done right, it’s not like it’s impossible to do with a little thought and understanding of women, men, relationships, and love . . .
I know I’m overreacting. I warned you it was a rant. But for the love of god, could somebody please rescue this genre for the screen? It’s thriving in print, why is it so impossible for Hollywood to make it work in the movies?
[For a terrific answer to this question from somebody in the business, scroll down to Toni's answer. Very illuminating.]
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172 Comments to 'Romantic Comedy Rant'
On November 20, 2009 at 12:42 pm Absolute Cherry said...
Now I’m going to lie awake tonight wondering which bad movies we’re talking about, because with my luck I’ll buy them for myself for Christmas. And I couldn’t agree more about how frustrating it is when modern romantic comedies completely ignore the qualities that appeal to a romantic comedy audience. Two Weeks Notice totally lost me when it took a sudden side trip into the heroine’s gastrointestinal crisis on the expressway; was ANY woman in the audience not hideously uncomfortable during that scene?
On November 20, 2009 at 1:51 pm Jenny said...
First one is The Proposal. Second is The Ugly Truth.
If you can get past the terrible ending, The Proposal is fun.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:56 pm Moth said...
So for The Proposal did they rip off the end of While You Were Sleeping?
On December 7, 2009 at 3:04 pm Susan Mallery said...
Excellent post, Jenny! I share your frustrations about finding good romantic comedy on the screen. When I find a good romantic comedy – like When Harry Met Sally, Love Actually, Music & Lyrics – I buy it and watch it again and again. But if I see it in the theater and don’t love it, I don’t bother buying it. I read what Toni said below, and I agree that streaming video is going to bring some changes to Hollywood, and I think those changes will really benefit women viewers. We have so much economic power – look at how our romance novels have been faring even during the recession for proof – but our moviegoing habits differ from what Hollywood currently thinks of as important.
There are some fantastic romantic comedies coming from the independent movie scene. I recently saw “Outsourced,” a fish-out-of-water romcom, in which an American executive had to go to India to teach the outsourced telephone reps how to speak like Americans. I loved it!
Susan Mallery
Author of Hot on Her Heels
Facebook.com/SusanMallery
On November 20, 2009 at 12:46 pm Rhien Elleth said...
I know exactly which two movies you’re talking about, and ITA. The second in particular was insulting.
Aw, Return to Me is a great movie! I’m trying to think of movies to add to your list, or rec…the husband actually enjoys good romantic comedy, too, so we own several, including some he wanted to own more than I did. 27 Dresses was fun, and it’s more about the guy liberating the girl from being a doormat than liberating her from her uptight job. I enjoyed The Holiday quite a bit, and it’s seasonal.
Obviously While You Were Sleeping was charming, and the trope w/grandma mostly worked the first time around. I don’t know about being worth owning, but I enjoyed watching He’s Just Not That Into You (in which the guy actually learns something). Hmmm. Not coming up with as many as I’d hoped. Must peruse the DVD shelves when I get home!
On November 20, 2009 at 12:49 pm Bonnie C said...
First – you have to give up the names of these trainwrecks so I can either a) avoid them or b) Netflix ‘em for Mock the Movie Night.
Second – I’m in LA (well, east of LA, but…). You aren’t wrong in your hypothesis but I think it goes deeper than that. I have friends and acquaintances who are screenwriters and I’ve taken a stab at it myself and there is a desperation to write what they think will sell rather than write a good flick. Not unlike an RWA convention where everyone is running around like crazy trying to cash in on the current trend or predict the next one. So we all end up jumping the shark.
Also I’ve noticed that there is so much quality writing on TV these days that I think writers are aiming for the more solid and predictable (I use these terms lightly) platform of network and cable programming. Ultimately it’s a less costly risk that film production and I strongly believe that’s why there hasn’t been a film in recent memory that I could be bothered to line up babysitting for and chunk down $25 to sit through.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:10 pm Venus Vaughn said...
Heh heh heh. Subtle.
I’ve seen one and haven’t seen the other, but I can suss out a preview with the best of them and know exactly how much I’m going to enjoy a movie from the 1 minute movie edit they give us. (Query system, anyone?)
I was sorely disappointed by movie #2. I saw it with a 20 year old friend – I’m 37- and she loved every minute of it. I left feeling betrayed. The only part of it that stuck with me as something true and sincere was when the heroine stripped off her facade in front of the anti-hero. Also, sadly, and honestly, that was the end of them.
I was also disappointed in their portrayal of the hero – as if trotting out a kid shows his secret heart of gold. If he really had a heart of gold, he wouldn’t be out there spreading his jackassness to the world. It reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talks about men boasting that they take care of their kids. Then he says, “What do you want, a fucking cookie? You’re SUPPOSED to take care of your kids.”
Being decent to a kid doesn’t make one a hero. It’s the sort of thing you’re supposed to do. I was doubly saddened because that actor has such potential to be a true romantic lead, but he just came off as every other dude in search of the hot chick.
And I loooooooved Return To Me.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:10 pm Courtney said...
Love, Actually, and You’ve Got Mail. Two of he movies I could watch over and over again. They should be on the list. Oh, and The Philadelphia Story-my all-time favorite. I know the first movie-I laughed a lot, but it wasn’t something I have to own-or ever see again, really. But I’m dying to know which the second one is-so I can be sure not to waste my time & money.
On November 21, 2009 at 9:29 pm Deborah Blake said...
Love Actually was wonderful–in part because not everybody got what they wanted–but it was still funny and heartwarming. The scene with Hugh Grant (I think that’s who it was) dancing through 10 Downing St? Classic!
And I was thinking of renting #2–thanks for saving me.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:16 pm Venus Vaughn said...
Part 2
My favourite romantic movie is Frankie and Johnny (Pacino & Pfeiffer). I wouldn’t classify it as a comedy, but they get the elements of character depth and growth right.
And if you can stand subtitles I highly recommend Mediterraneo.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:27 pm Rox said...
I’ve seen both these movies. Did you know the second one was written by two women?
On November 20, 2009 at 1:38 pm Jenny said...
Yes. One of them co-wrote 10 Things I Hate About You, which I love. I hope she got paid a lot.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:36 pm Marcia in OK said...
OK, I’m just a slug of a reader and a movie watcher.
I sat in the theatre and laughed out-loud repeatedly with my mother and my best girlfriend watching the first movie that bugged you. What can I say to defend myself. Nothing much except, the actors were doing their part, the story was comfortable, and I really, really needed a break at the time. I’ve recommended this movie to many and if I had $20 to spare, I’d buy a copy.
I have books on my keeper shelf that are “reruns” too. And, I just keep re-reading them when I need a fix.
I guess that’s why others do the writing and I just decide yep, or nope.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:42 pm Jenny said...
You don’t need to defend yourself. It’s an opinion. All opinions welcome here.
Also, I’ll probably watch the first one again because right up to the wedding it was good. Then . . .
On November 20, 2009 at 1:41 pm PG said...
I really liked “While You Were Sleeping,” and I don’t remember a grandma having a heart attack at the wedding. As I recall, the concern was that grandma had a weak heart and *might* keel over if there were too much excitement, but at the wedding even before the infamous “speak now or forever hold your piece,” Lucy objects, and half the cast suddenly steps up to object too. Even people we hadn’t seen before in the movie come running in to object. I thought that aspect was great. And Lucy is worried about grandma, but grandma finds it all intensely interesting and isn’t having a heart attack at all.
(Though film has really put the lie to the statement in Jane Eyre: “He paused, as the custom is. When is the pause after that sentence ever broken by reply? Not, perhaps, once in a hundred years. And the clergyman, who had not lifted his eyes from his book, and had held his breath but for a moment, was proceeding: his hand was already stretched towards Mr. Rochester, as his lips unclosed to ask, “Wilt thou have this woman for thy wedded wife?”–when a
distinct and near voice said – ‘The marriage cannot go on: I declare the existence of an impediment.’”)
Neither “Sleepless in Seattle” nor “You’ve Got Mail” quite worked for me as rom-coms, though they had fabulous writing (I say “You don’t want to be in love. You want to be in love in a movie.” and “So much of what I see reminds me of something I read in a book, when shouldn’t it be the other way around?” all the time). I think because the leads spend so little time physically together, I never quite got the thrill of a romance.
I liked “Love, Actually,” though in a way because it wasn’t a typical romantic comedy — there’s sad stuff and it doesn’t end up with everyone happily paired off. It was kind of genuine about how there are different kinds of love, and how love can go awry. I also liked “The Holiday,” although I almost feel like it cheated with her initial distrust of Jude Law’s character, because I too inherently distrust Jude Law.
I love The Philadelphia Story, though as a lawyer my Katharine Hepburn rom-com heart is saved for “Adam’s Rib.” The only legal movie I’ve ever seen where you genuinely don’t know which side to root for. All other legal movies I’ve seen have a good guy and a bad guy. This had two good guys as the lawyers, and three terrible people as the parties actually involved in the case.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:47 pm Jenny said...
Oh, Adam’s Rib. Love that movie . Everybody in it is wonderful. Love Actually is my Christmas movie.
As for While You Were Sleeping, which I also like a lot, I think the fact that there’s a bride faking a wedding, a grandmother with a heart condition, and a confession-speech is enough. The same thing with singing-on-stage in 27 Dresses. A million possibilities and they default to something that’s been done before and that’s out of character for the main character (because really, would that executive have made an announcement in front of a bunch of strangers or would she have said, “I’ve changed my mind,” grabbed the immigration agent and quietly done a deal in the back room?). Equally awkward ending in that John Cusack, Julia Roberts, Catherine Zeta-Jones thing that was a satire on film pr that they tried to make into a romantic comedy. Big speeches to crowds at ends of romcoms: bleah. Although I will admit to a fondness for that press conference in Notting Hill.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:27 pm PG said...
The only thing I liked about 27 Dresses was the anonymous bride at the end on the boat, who is totally OK with Heigl’s big love announcement stealing the bride’s thunder. I watched it on a plane with headphones and unconsciously said “Yes, thank you!” loudly enough that other people could hear me.
Admittedly I was planning my own wedding at the time and was getting really tired of all the bridezilla stereotyping, which is huge in that movie. Hi, some of us are just trying to keep the groom from demanding an elopement while still having a wedding elaborate enough that our mom will be satisfied. It’s not easy. Rom-coms that play on negative stereotypes and cliches about women bother me even more than other genres that do it.
Also, Heigl *ever* being the plain one? Please. It’s like having Keira Knightly as Elizabeth in Pride & Prejudice: to do it right, you have to have the courage to pick an actress who is not as obviously beautiful as the actress who will play her sister. Giving her messy hair and bad clothes doesn’t cut it.
John Cusack: Say Anything in addition to Grosse Pointe Blank.
I am permanently pissed off at “How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days” without ever having seen it, because I’m pretty sure it’ll keep “Bet Me” from getting made until it’s considered forgotten. (I guess 14 years is the timeline?)
The cracked.com article was hilarious but slightly unfair to both Pretty Woman and Sarah Palin.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:45 pm Venus Vaughn said...
Teeny FYI – How to Lose A Guy in 10 Days was also a book to movie option. I owned the book long before someone turned it into a screenplay and I have to recommend it. But not for the writing, more for the illustrations
On November 20, 2009 at 3:35 pm Beki said...
Oh, absolutely, but in Notting Hill, that press conference was in character. It was the big speech in front of people, but was an actress used to doing that sort of thing, putting herself out there. I liked that one, too.
On November 21, 2009 at 9:31 pm Deborah Blake said...
I confess–Notting Hill gets me every time. I love that movie.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:45 pm Sierra said...
The romantic comedy that really ticked me off was actually Kate & Leopold. I loved Leopold, wanted the best for him, was totally in love with him…all the things necessary for a romantic male lead to be considered a success. On the other hand, I wanted to shoot Kate and dump her into the river. She was whiney, indecisive, and completely wrong for him. I just couldn’t believe that he would really fall in love with her. I saw no character growth from her and even though Leopold was Hugh Jackman, I sold my copy of the DVD because I could not bring myself to watch it again.
When I need a good romantic comedy, I usually reach for Cary Grant. Father Goose is one of my favorites, as is Holiday. Holiday just makes me happy every time I watch it, because not only do Hepburn and Grant find each other, but they finally find themselves at the same time.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm Becky said...
Kate & Leopold was terrible. Kate’s boyfriend was Leopold’s great-great-howevermany grandson. So Kate was sleeping with her own grandson. Poor planning, folks. Also, I just hated the movie, but that bit really turned me off.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:12 pm Sierra said...
Yeah…that squicked me out, too. I think the only things that really caught me about that movie were Leopold’s character (and the fact that it was Hugh) and Liev Schreiber, who had one of the best performances in the movie. There was such potential there for something that could have cute and sweet and fantastic, but they just ruined it.
On November 20, 2009 at 5:07 pm London Mabel said...
Ya I really disliked Kate’s character.
On November 26, 2009 at 11:42 pm Lou Shumaker said...
If Hollywood is looking to remake movies, they should redo movies like “Kate,” because there was a pretty good concept inside, and they already know where it went wrong wrong wrong.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:50 pm toni said...
Amen. I saw both of those, in the theater. Laughed some at the first, for the same reason, and when it got to the wedding scene, I gaped in disbelief. It ruined the movie. I wanted my money back.
The second one just disgusted me.
The problem with Hollywood isn’t just that it’s run by men… it’s that women our age don’t generally go to movie openings. They aren’t the dependable will-go-no-matter-what audience that studios can count on for opening weekend grosses. (Witness your own example–you were busy, you waited ’til you had the time and watched the DVD. Why should they assume you’ll go out to a movie instead of wait?) (We’re all busy. That’s the nature of our lives.)
What that means is that there aren’t as many actresses or actors who can pull in older, more discerning people into a theater on opening weekend for a movie about relationships. Which means there just aren’t nearly as many executives and actors and actresses and A or B list writers who want to do the genre, because it is a nightmare to cast and a nightmare to market.
Getting an actress who has a recognition factor big enough to open a romantic comedy in the theater is a nightmare. Been there many times, done that, have the guillotine. Finding the right actress and then finding a guy who is (a) hot enough to be the romantic lead and (b) strong enough to carry it as an actor and (c) famous enough so that he adds something to the marketing mix and (d) most important, willing to not be the sole star of the movie is a freaking heartache, because most actors who have enough clout to really pull in the crowds don’t want to do soft films about relationships where they aren’t the star and it’s not about them getting to do something fascinating (like have an illness, or do something controversial where they can really act. And God Help You if you get an actor strong enough to open the movie alone, because then it runs the risk of him becoming the central figure of the movie and her becoming ‘the girl’–which is what I think happened in the second movie.
Add to that the sheer cost of marketing a film. Marketing nowadays cost as much as the original budget for the film. So if a film cost $20 million to make, it’s going to cost an easy $20m to market. Theaters get at least half of the opening weekend take, leaving distributors and studios to duke it out for percentages of the other half. That means that they’ve got to get as many people in the theater on the opening weekend as humanly possible, because either it’s going to get great word of mouth fast, which will keep bringing audiences in, so they can keep their slot in the theaters… or it’s going to tank really fast, and that big opening weekend might get them enough momentum to carry it a couple more weeks to try to recoup their cost before it gets yanked for the next film. All of which means, marketing freaks out and has to figure out how to hook the audience with a “one sheet” (the movie poster and “a tagline” and a trailer.
Which means marketing drives all of the concerns, from jump. “How do we sell it?” isn’t just a lofty concern, it’s the mantra, and if there’s enough juvenile stuff in there, they can pull funny lines for the trailer and get some of the younger crowd into the theater for date night, then they’ve got a chance of recouping their costs.
I didn’t fully appreciate this until I produced a movie, and I had to spend other people’s money, with the promise/hope/prayer that they could recoup it. Then all of a sudden, I had to look hard at who would even go to a little indie film, who would pay to see something not from a big Hollywood studio without big name actors, and the economic reality is, 18-25 year old men. Not women. Not older women (i.e., over 30), that’s for sure. The latter stay home and watch TV. Or rent movies.
It’s not a case of “if you build it, they will come.” Unfortunately.
I think online distribution channels are going to change all of that, though, I think the economics for making good female driven films, with smart comedy and grounded emotions and real-life depth is going to improve with more and more films getting distributed through the internet, straight to our TVs and computers. Women will have the economic power there, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see a big hit like that change the perception in Hollywood of how to make money making female driven films.
(sorry for the length. As a screenwriter for 7 years, it’s a topic near and dear to my heart)
On November 20, 2009 at 1:56 pm Jenny said...
This should be a blog post of its own. Really wonderfully illuminating. Thank you, Toni.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:28 pm JulieB said...
And it’s very true. I often consider the screen itself when I choose to see a movie. Am I going for effects? Do I want the the surround sound and visuals? I’m getting more particular about movies and where I sit as well. I have vision problems and usually must sit in the back half of newe movie theaters.
If I want to watch a romantic comedy, it’s usually because I want the whole comfort — my own snacks, PJs, a bed, and sometimes even the spouse.
On November 20, 2009 at 6:58 pm Rachel said...
This was a great look into how things work. However, there are some figures given that are just flat out incorrect.
” Theaters get at least half of the opening weekend take, leaving distributors and studios to duke it out for percentages of the other half.”
The terms for the first movie mentioned here for any theatre that played it “on the break” (started playing it on the national release date) was a sliding aggregate. This means that the percentage of the gross the theatre gives back to the film company is based on how well the film does over its whole national run. For the film in question, the final terms were 53%, meaning the theatre had to send 53% of all the money it made on that film back to the studio. They did not keep at least half of it.
For the second film mentioned, the first week terms were 60% for smaller towns and 70% for larger ones (pretty much anything bigger than Casper, WY). This means that many theatres only got to keep 30% of what they made, while others got to keep 40%. Still definitely not half or more.
It is true that a lot of what it comes down to with making these films is money and how much they can get back in a short period of time. After all, it is a business and in the end, studios need to watch the bottom line very carefully.
I just thought it was important to make sure figures are correct as long as we are talking about numbers here.
On November 21, 2009 at 2:51 am toni said...
Thanks, Jenny.
Rachel, I was generalizing and averaging for the sake of the general point, not the specifics… since there are so many films and genres, it seemed useful enough for a comment. Sorry for the confusion there. Thank you for posting the specifics. I hope the general point was clear, that studios share a very large portion of the theatrical run with the theater owners and the distributors, which means their take is substantially lower than the grosses we see reported.
On November 21, 2009 at 5:22 pm Flamingo Cherry said...
I see a vicious cycle at work. About 5 years ago, I started noticing there were fewer movies that interested me. I like a lot of different genres, but I’m a smart, snarky, educated 40 something woman and I am apparently not the demographic that is paying the big buck for movies. So, much as I love going to movies, I stopped going regularly, because I’m not going to pay absurd prices for movies unless they REALLY appeal to me.
Since I’m not going to the movies, fewer movies of a type that I like are getting made. And, the prices of a movie ticket keep going up. They just hit $10 in my area, which was my cut off. So now, not only do I have to love it, I will only go to a matinee.
Fewer discerning movie goers = higher prices & pandering to the (apparently) young male demographic = even fewer discerning movie goers = I may never see a new movie I like again. (And apologies to young males who are discerning, wherever you are.)
I rely more and more on Netflix, not just for the ability to watch new movies at a reasonable price, but also for giving me a huge backlog of old movies I’d never even heard of … “How to Steal a Million” rapidly flew to the top of my favorite pile).
On November 20, 2009 at 1:51 pm Strop said...
Operation Petticoat. I haven’t watched it in ages, but I love it. And White Christmas, because a) it’s nearly Advent and b) Bing and Rosemary in The Minstrel Number.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:53 pm steph said...
I haven’t seen a non-animated movie in months so i’m in the dark as to which movies these are but I understand the underlying problem. I can’t fathom why most of the world understands the buying power women have and then Hollywood gives us crap like this. The answer, I know is that women don’t go to moves. Well, no $hit. We vote with our money and we don’t spend it on stuff like this. Not twice anyway. But write us something good and we’ll see it time after time and we’ll buy copy upon copy of the DVD and give it to our friends and our mothers and our MILs and ….Personally, I think that’s worth more than any 16 year old boy is worth but then I majored in poli sci not econ.
PG – I’m with you on ‘Adam’s Rib’. It was the first Hepburn/Tracy movie I ever saw and it’s always been a favorite. A wonderful classic.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:55 pm Jenny said...
You know, now that I think about it, a lot of would-have-been-good movies are wrecked for me by one or two bad scenes, like that ridiculous we’re-not-having-oral-sex-in-the-men’s-room scene in Two Week’s Notice, even though a movie with a great scene–I’m thinking of the drunk scene on the boat in Two Week’s Notice–won’t save it. That movie had some great moments–like when they’re in a restaurant talking and she looks at her plate and says, “Beet! Beet!” and he takes it off her plate and puts it on his while continuing the conversation–so I’m not sure why that one incredibly dumb, insulting, puerile scene in the bathroom made me take that off my list. I really should watch that movie again.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:36 pm PG said...
Two Weeks’ Notice didn’t look good to me, but if there was only one scene that was bad, I can deal with that. It’s going on the Netflix queue.
I’m starting a Slate-style “TV Club” to watch My So-Called Life on hulu.com, with a friend of my age who also never watched it at the time when we were *so* the target audience (nerdy teenage girls wishing to break out of our nerdiness). I’ve only had the chance to watch the first half of the pilot so far, but I’m a little worried that I’m too old for it now, because I totally sympathize with the mom.
On November 20, 2009 at 1:55 pm Eva said...
I know which one #1 was, and I thought the same thing! It hit every cliche known to romantic comedy, but yet it worked. Macaroni and cheese or mashed potatoes I guess?
I just watched Moonstruck yesterday.
On November 20, 2009 at 2:40 pm hollygee said...
After I’d read this post, I was browsing HuffPo. This headline caught my eye: 7 Popular ‘Chick Flicks’ That Make Women Look Insane
which ultimately sent me here: http://www.cracked.com/article/194_7-popular-chick-flicks-that-secretly-hate-women/
On November 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm Bonnie C said...
Ok, wow – LOL!! Thank you ma’am, may I have another.
“The Women” is the one that gets me the most – I love the original in a way some may see as unholy, but I KNOW that it is a product of its time and can enjoy it free of any notion that it has anything to do with modern day relaities. A remake is probably one of the most irresponsible things I’ve seen in a long time.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:16 am Hellie said...
Hilarious! I nearly spit my drink at the Twilight bashing. Too true and what I keep saying! I know I’m supposed to like the guy, but honestly, he’s a stalker.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:05 pm Slave Driver said...
Watching Romantic Comedies is one of the few things my daughter (16) and I still do together, since she’s at the age where I am the devil/ATM/Keeper of the car keys and she’d rather die than be seen in public with me. We went to both of those movies, and during movie #1, at every turning point, she’s lean over and whisper “Turning point”. In movie #2, she’d lean over and say “That’s gross/not funny/just stupid or “I don’t like him” for which I was grateful because our motto is “If you can’t be a role model you can at least be a horrible example”, so hopefully she will never be attracted to creepy guys who maintain the emotional level of 12 year old boys their entire lives, and want to know nothing more about a woman than “Where is a hole I can stick this in to.”
My most current favorite RC is “Penelope”. The fact that he still thinks she has the snout of a pig when he kisses her makes him a real winner in my book. Plus the idea that Penelope likes the way she is I think sends a great message.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:06 pm Moth said...
I second Penelope. I LOVE that movie. It’s so cute.
On November 20, 2009 at 3:35 pm me said...
you mentioned some of my fave movies! How to Steal a Million, While You Were Sleeping, 10 Things…, Moonstruck, and someone mentioned Love Actually. I did not see The Proposal but want to, or did until I read this about the ending. (Still, Ryan Reynolds might be worth it). I did see the Ugly Truth but I went in knowing it was crass. It had some great laugh out loud moments, but I really didn’t like the characters. I think it’s kind of telling (either I’m old, or Hollywood has no clue) that none of my favorite romcoms are recent, save Love Actually, and that one is about, what, five years old now?
On November 20, 2009 at 3:38 pm PG said...
I liked “Music & Lyrics” and it’s a little more recent (2007), although I felt the movie was kind of carried by Hugh Grant and the other male actors.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:19 pm Slave Driver said...
Ryan Reynolds is very yummy and The Proposal is worth seeing if nothing more than just for eye candy. He’s come a long way from “Two Guys, a Girl, and a Pizza Place” for sure.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:04 pm julie said...
Toni’s post says a lot about the business, but as one who has also toiled in Hollywood (and grew up in the thick of the biz) there’s just one thing I want to add about screenwriters — their work is not their own.
I presume, Jenny, that when you’ve finished a novel, after all the toil and the difficulties, with or without a writing partner, with or without the gnashing of teeth, the tearing of hair and the rending of garments, and you’ve okayed the copy edits, when you’re finally left with the final, final manuscript, you know with 100% certainty that this is exactly how the book will appear in print.
Screenwriters have no such certainty. They turn in their work, which is really Work for Hire and thus not owned or controlled by the writer, and then it — the movie, tv show, whatever — must be “made,” by artists or artistes such as directors, actors, producers and even studio execs. Even if a script technically stays in the screenwriter’s “final” draft, changes can and are made every step of the way. And that’s not to mention the very common rewrites that take place, with or without the original screenwriter. The Writers Guild has a system whereby credit is assigned to a completed movie; that is a fraught process and doesn’t always work, not to mention the fact that many screenwriters doing quick rewrites don’t even want their name on the finished product.
My best pal is an A-list screenwriter; her IMDB credits have almost no relationship to the actual work she does each day. She’s written great scripts, gotten rewritten by others and lost credit. She’s rewritten lousy scripts and gotten no credit. She’s written pages while a script is being shot (very common) and substantially changed the work-in-progress and either gotten or not gotten credit. (Keep going ad infinitum, combining the various scenarios.)
This is all a long post to say — you can’t necessarily blame the screenwriter. He or she almost never has the final word on the words, or scenes, or plot points, that appear on the screen.
On November 20, 2009 at 7:56 pm Jenny said...
Thanks, Julie, I do know that. I think the thing about the Ugly Truth is that there were no good parts. On Two Weeks Notice, you could say, “Well, the director thought that scene in the bathroom would be funny so he put that in,” but when an entire movie goes bad, I tend to be less generous with the writer. Of course I also know that some screenwriters get stuck with credit when everything they wrote is tossed because their contracts stipulated it. This is one of the many reasons I will never write for film (another reason: nobody’s asking me to). There’s no Alan Smithee for writers. They should look into that.
On November 20, 2009 at 9:06 pm julie said...
In terms of credit, I know there are circumstances under which you can leave your name off a project (for instance, by not contesting for credit via the automatic WGA credit arbitration when there have been multiple writers), but many writers are loathe to do that — even when the project has turned to shit — because the “written by” and “story by” credits directly affect residuals. So money is the root of all evil, and many bad movies.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:07 pm Chelle said...
What everyone else said. Return To Me is one of my fav’s. Bonnie Hunt is a Goddess. Ten Things I Hate About You is a classic, although now I cry when Heath Ledger sings.
No one’s mentioned Hitch. I diagrammed that one out to see how it fit in the Hero’s Journey and found it fascinating.
Wish I could say I waited for both of the movies your talking about to go to DVD, but alas, I went to the theater. Which is why I still have my Netflix account.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:22 pm Carol Anne said...
Some of the best banter in romantic comedy was Cary Grant. Thinking of the movie – To Catch A Thief, Grace Kelly is unwrapping cold chicken – leg or a breast banter. Or Indiscreet or Charade…. so many. His voice alone could … well, I disgress. Elaine May – The New Leaf. Loved that movie.
Saw the first movie at the theatre, not the second. The heart attack scene, I agree. As for the second movie – well, if he can’t get the nightgown off and she doesn’t want the nightgown off…. they obviously had very bad sex in the dark. All talk and no substance.
Toni’s comment was very illuminating. Great comments all around.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:30 pm Moth said...
I haven’t seen The Proposal but it is in my Netflix queue.
I did laugh at The Ugly Truth but even as I walked out I knew I’d never watch it again. Shallow doesn’t begin to cover it.
One rom-com I found WILDLY offensive was He’s Just Not That Into You. Me and my sister almost walked out of that one. You have Drew Barrymore telling another girl (who wants to pursue a married man) about a friend she had who ended up breaking up a marriage and having three kids, so don’t worry the guy will totally leave his wife. Then whe Jennifer Connelly dumps her cheating, jack-ass husband it’s not because he cheated on her- no, it’s because he was smoking!!! And the relationship with Affleck and Aniston was a trainwreck too. She comes to accept they don’t have to get married but then he proposes anyway so it’s totally all right! (Way to undercut the message of THAT plot thread). Hated that movie.
As for RomComs I love, well, you hit a lot of them: 10 Things…, Father Goose (although I like Charade better), Moostruck, How to Steal a Million, Love Actually is one of my go-to Holiday movies. (Speaking of which has anyone else seen All I Want for Chrismas? It’s sort of a Parent Trap set at Christmas time. I love that movie).
For recs:
I loved Penelope. Really sweet movie.
I was pleasantly surprised by Ghosts of Girlfriend’s Past. There was plenty of asshat male behavior but I felt like he was genuinely reformed by the end. And I usually hate Matthew McCougnehay (I have no idea how to spell his last name).
I love Shag with Annabeth Gish, it’s a dance movie set in the south during the 60s, and it’s been one of my favorites since I was a little girl. (not really a classic romcom).
I really love The American President, but then I love Aaron Sorkin’s writing.
Sorry. I’m a movie buff. I could talk about this stuff for DAYS…
On November 20, 2009 at 7:47 pm PG said...
The American President is like PG porn for liberals. I watch it every time it’s on TV. It amazes me that they managed to make a successful film in which one of the great moments is the male lead embracing the female lead’s past including her presence at flag-burning protests.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm CrankyOtter said...
I’m mad at Serendipity. It was a John Cusak film and should have been good, but it was a giant big Mis coupled with them always just missing each other. When characters only think about their ideal beloved and don’t deal with them again and again, I don’t think they have the conflict resolution skills to stay together. They’ve spent so long idealizing this other person, that it’s doomed to failure. And I get too little of them being together and showing off the chemistry. (The review I heard on NPR of New Moon says the movie suffers from this.) Anyhow, I agree a great romcom can’t be beat, but it’s excruciatingly hard to find one that doesn’t give them a bad name, let alone find an excellent one.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:44 pm TerriO said...
I haven’t seen either of these but I knew which ones you meant from the blog. The first I’d rent just for the towel scene, which I hear is hysterical. And Betty White is always fun. The second I knew I’d never like. Heigl irritates me for some reason I can’t name. Like a pebble in my shoe I can’t get out. And I do love to look at Gerry, but I’ve never thought his acting skills were all that great. I liked 300 and he was pretty good as the Phantom, but other than that he’s just eye candy. But very nice eye candy.
I’ll throw in my vote for Penelope. Loved that movie. And I watch The Holiday all the time, though mostly because I love Kate Winslett’s characters. Adore Love Actually and one that surprised me, though might not qualify as RC, is About a Boy. Hugh Grant is really good in that one.
For a great love story with some cute laughs, I’d watch UP. (And have tissues ready even before the little short at the front called Partly Cloudy.) For the classics, can’t beat It Happened One Night or anything by Frank Capra.
On November 20, 2009 at 8:02 pm Bonnie C said...
UP masters in 10 minutes what most movies fail to touch in 110.
And keep the tissue box handy, you need it at the All Is Lost section 10 minutes from the end.
On November 20, 2009 at 8:54 pm Jenny said...
Oh, UP. Beautiful, beautiful movie. I cried at the beginning and cried at the end and laughed the whole time. One of the best movies I’ve ever seen. Plus our new catchphrase around the house is now, “SQUIRREL!” But truly a love romance in the beginning.
On November 22, 2009 at 5:03 am CrankyOtter said...
absolutely. Up was fantastic, as was the short before it with the stork. Love Acutally is one of my go-to movies (particularly the deleted scenes about Christmas Farts), and even though I read the book first, I adored About a Boy. Probably because it wasn’t all kinds of cliche, but the whole package was great.
I wish there were more movies out there starring mostly women but a lot of them look so dumb I can’t make myself go. I got burned on Baby Mama which could have been excellent with small tweaks, but was stupid as was.
Whip It, though. That’s one excellent coming of age movie. Stars women of all ages, has some good romance too. “I would have called,” is on of my favorite lines though.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:49 pm gin said...
What’s eluded me for at least a decade (which is probably how long it’s been since I went to see a romantic comedy) is why anyone thinks stupid/incompetent = funny.
I haven’t actually seen any of these movies, because I can’t get past the trailers, which are, basically, “look at how stupid/incompetent/bumbling these people are.”
I just don’t get it.
On November 20, 2009 at 4:58 pm Camanoah said...
Romantic comedy has always been my favorite genre and I have long been bemoaning the fact that there are so few good ones in the theaters. I go to the movies so rarely now that I actually get ticket price sticker shock almost every time. But I would go more often if there was more I wanted to see. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard of a movie, gotten excited to see it and then ultimately been disappointed.
I did go to “The Proposal” and generally liked it, but got the same “omg they are not going to have Sandra Bullock do the same thing are they?” I actually whispered that to my niece at the theater when Sandra was walking down the aisle. “While You Were Sleeping” is one I’ve watched many times as are many of the movies previously mentioned in this blog.
My biggest yardstick judging a romantic comedy for my own taste is usually “Does it have good dialogue?” That’s why a couple of my favorites that haven’t been mentioned yet are “Bull Durham” (I love baseball, too) and “Indiscreet.” Also an issue, are the actors cast well, i.e. do they fit the characters? When it all comes together, it can be magic.
I wait with eternal hope (and fear) that:
1. “Bet Me” gets made into a movie, (or any Crusie book – how about “Getting Rid of Bradley”? – or one of my other favorite books with great dialogue like “Mother of the Bride” by Lynn Michaels)
2. It gets cast well, and
3. All the great dialogue and quirks of the characters are not removed.
So, I wait for the powers that be to realize that they have a huge untapped market out there and still hope each time a new “romantic comedy” is announced that it will truly be one.
By the way, thanks Jenny, for the NaNo dialogue passages. They were a huge pick-me-up. I really look forward to Liz’s books.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:26 pm D. said...
I second the vote for Bet Me. Though, it may be difficult to find the actor who can fill Cal’s shoes. I mean, how many times have you looked at a man and thought he should be on coins?
On November 21, 2009 at 12:28 pm D. said...
Oh, and I have to put in my vote for Ghost Town. I found it very sweet.
On November 20, 2009 at 5:02 pm London Mabel said...
I didn’t go see either of these films I believe you’re referring to, because the previews looked terrible. I eventually saw the grandma one on an airplane, and it was indeed terrible. I had just watched The Hangover which was really funny, so the humor paled in comparison (plus I thought they had no chemistry.)
The second I can’t even bring myself to rent.
One of my all-time faves (and I saw it in the theatre twice): State and Main (David Mamet). Very funny, and the romance is original. (At one point the hero gets caught in a compromising position with another woman, and when he tells his new love interest the truth about what’s going on… she believes him! Hallelujah!)
I loved Two Weeks Notice, and I loved that they gave it an ending which was appropriate to the heroine’s morals.
On November 20, 2009 at 7:14 pm Moth said...
State and Main is great. I love the dialogue.
On November 20, 2009 at 5:09 pm McB said...
” uh, because some fourteen-year-old boy in a screenwriter’s body thought that was funny”
That pretty much explains a lot of today’s so-called romantic comedy. The new sitcom with Jenna Elfman? I love Jenna as a rule, and I even like the rest of the cast. But the scripts are oinkers. I gave it two tries for Jenna and the gang and that’s as much of my life as they’re gonna get. The two movies … I saw the first and liked it. It was waaaaay predictable, like a fill in the blank form for scripts; but, I like her a lot and, oh yeah, he does naked guy real good. And I was disappointed for much the same reason you were, Jenny, because they could have done something really good but instead it was merely okay. Fortunately it only cost me one night’s rental from Blockbuster. Didn’t see the other movie, and I’m glad I didn’t.
What kills me is this: Hollywood will look at these movies/sitcom and see the lack of revenue, but instead of taking any responsibility for those failings, they’ll go with the trite and claim there’s no audience for that stuff anymore.
And I’m sorry but I’m not gonna buy that they are hoping to get their money back on movie dates excuse. It’s romantic comedy, it’s a known market that has existed for a few generations now and they should know this market, and they should know that it’s not a market that finds potty humor entertaining. If you want to draw in the teen date night crowd, make a movie about teens (or college kids or whatever). If you make a movie with actors in the 40-50yo category, then your market is other 40-50 year olds. Get writers who are out of puberty.
On November 20, 2009 at 6:28 pm Kelly said...
Gratefully, I haven’t seen either of them and probably won’t.
One rom/com that I love as a guilty pleasure since it is a little hokey is “Simple Irresistible”.
Also, a movie that I LOVE which isn’t quite rom/com even though it has romance and comedy (and mystery and adventure) is “American Dreamer”. LOVE LOVE LOVE IT.
Oh, and since I’m back in the ’80′s, “Better Off Dead” is a fun teenage rom/com with wonderful lines like “Sorry, you’re mom blew up.” and
“Monique: He keeps putting his testicles all over me.
Lane: Excuse me?
Monique: You know, like octopus? Testicles?
Lane: Ohhhh. Tentacles. N-T. Big Difference. ”
- another one with Cusack
On November 20, 2009 at 6:59 pm Lilah Pierce said...
Tell us how you really feel Jenny! I agree that there just aren’t any good romcoms anymore. (I can’t complain about the money I’ve saved from not going to the movies though.) But in all fairness I’ve read nearly all of your books and have such high standards for my romantic comedy now, I don’t suppose there’s many out there that can compare! Lets face it folks Jenny’s just spoiled us w laugh-your-ass-off, tell-it-how-it-is, original-story romcoms that we only appreciate the very best.
On November 20, 2009 at 7:31 pm Samantha said...
I love, love, love French Kiss! When Meg Ryan’s character realizes that she and Kevin Kline’s stubbly jewel thief deep down just want the same thing? Sigh, Did I mention I love it?
And this might sound out there, but I found a nice little rom/com hiding among the crudeness and nakedness of Zack and Miri Make a Porno.
On November 20, 2009 at 7:41 pm PG said...
I found “Z&M Make a Porno” perversely (pervertedly?) charming, but I was also slightly annoyed by its making such an ass of poor Miri. And am tired of Seth Rogan never having stable employment. Get a job, hippie.
On November 20, 2009 at 10:27 pm Moth said...
Love French Kiss. Kevin Kline is yummy.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:45 am London Mabel said...
I loved French Kiss. Kept waffling over Z&M, so I’ll have to see it.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:50 am Rosa said...
Yes! Kevin Kline makes just about any movie. Does In & Out count as romcom? It has that great kiss, and it’s hilarious.
On November 21, 2009 at 4:59 am Moth said...
Love In & Out. Especially the scene with Joan Cusack in the bar.
On November 21, 2009 at 10:42 pm Jenny said...
“What is this, the Twilight Zone?” Loved that movie, too. And Shannon whatsherface tried to punch numbers into a dial phone.
On November 21, 2009 at 3:11 am toni said...
Yes to French Kiss. And Dave. Loved Dave, though it’s probably not really a romcom.
On November 22, 2009 at 5:10 am CrankyOtter said...
Oh hey! Z&M was fun, I thought. Didn’t love it enough, but thought it should have made more money than it did.
I never got over Meg Ryans shag haircut in French Kiss. It distracted me in every scene. Only movie I’ve ever had ruined by a haircut. Drove be batty; I kept wanting to comb her hair or get her in the shower and couldn’t concentrate on anything else. Worst movie hair ever. Later found out on Sheer Genius that the haircut goes for $650. ugh.
On November 20, 2009 at 8:50 pm BrooklynShoeBabe said...
I couldn’t agree with you more about the lack of good romantic comedies out there. They are extremely insulting to women especially working women. They also seem to have stuff thrown in by adolescent boys, which is odd considering that romantic comedies are supposed to be geared toward women.
But I can’t bash the modern romcoms because I have some that I remember enjoying the hell out of. There’s America’s Sweethearts, My Best Friend’s Wedding, and Something About Mary. (Is SAM considered a romantic comedy?) I also really enjoyed Something’s Gotta Give although it was twenty minutes too long and the ending was a little implausible. Jack Nicholson over Keanu Reeves? Gimmie a break. I also thought The 40-year-old Virgin, Knocked Up, and 10 Things I Hate About You were really funny. There was also something cheese-ily pleasing about She’s All That with Freddie Prinze Jr. Something New with Sanaa Lathan and Simon Baker have a very special place in my heart.
Finally, and I feel like I’m in the minority about this, I don’t find anything remotely attractive Gerard Butler. I feel like I should like his whole manly man thing, but I don’t.
Things for reviewing The Proposal because I wanted to see that.
On November 20, 2009 at 8:57 pm Kelly said...
Totally agree with Something’s Gotta Give – loved the movie, except for the ending. I was totally cheering for Keanu. One of his better movies.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:23 am PG said...
Thirded on wanting her to end up with Keanu Reeves in that one. I really like him best when he’s being pretty and adoring someone, instead of trying to rush around saving the world/LA. See also “Parenthood.”
Oh, speaking of LA, I meant to recommend “LA Story.” A little twee, but I enjoyed it.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:47 am London Mabel said...
Can’t stand Keanu Reeves. So much so, I don’t even remember him being in that movie.
On November 21, 2009 at 10:43 pm Jenny said...
Reeves was terrific in The Gift. Which is NOT a romance, so if you don’t like having your socks scared off, avoid that one. It’s really good, though. Cate Blanchett.
On November 20, 2009 at 8:59 pm Jenny said...
America’s Sweethearts, that the Cusack-Roberts-ZetaJones movie. Great satire not so good romcom, great satire ending, not so good rom com ending. I must be the only person in American who couldn’t get through There’s Something About Mary, which I consider a failing on my part, not anybody else’s. Of course, I liked Something To Talk About and nobody else did, so that evens things up.
You should see The Proposal, though. Ryan Reynolds has been doing sit-ups.
On November 20, 2009 at 10:28 pm Moth said...
I can’t get into Something About Mary either. So there’s two people in America.
On November 20, 2009 at 10:44 pm Sierra said...
Never even wanted to see it, so there’s three of us.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:26 am SueG said...
Didn’t like SAM at all. Loved Something To Talk About, the scene at the women’s club meeting.
On November 21, 2009 at 11:12 am doris in munich said...
Thought SaM idiotic, so there may be three or more in America plus one in overseas reacting the same way
These days I just don’t get to go to the cinema (kids…), but the trailers for the Proposal made me laugh a lot while the whole premise of Ugly Truth felt not so good. I’m glad we didn’t catch it at out failed attempt to go to the movies a couple of weeks ago.
There’s a new Meryl Streep one coming soon and the trailer for that one makes me laugh every time I see it (and usually I don’t like Alec Baldwin). I guess I’m really becoming a MS-fan …
On November 21, 2009 at 10:12 pm Kelly said...
I saw it. Wish I hadn’t. Horrible and disgusting. I watched based on male co-workerss recommendations. They loved it. That should’ve been my clue.
On November 23, 2009 at 12:52 pm Nicole in WI said...
I loved Something To Talk About. Dennis Quaid does it for me everytime.
On November 26, 2009 at 11:55 pm Lou Shumaker said...
Had a weird experience with SAM. I saw it in the theatre years ago and remembered laughing my butt off (although the ending with Brett Favre went on waaay too long).
Then I get married, my wife picks up the DVD and we sit watching it. It may have been because of the extended version we were watching, but it seemed like it dragged on forever, and we finally stopped about halfway through.
On November 21, 2009 at 3:07 am Micki said...
Something About Mary kept almost starting to click, and then there’d be something dumb happening that made me go “ew.” Wasn’t it aimed at guys, anyway? Certainly didn’t seem to be aimed at women.
On November 21, 2009 at 3:14 am toni said...
I’m two for two with you there. I couldn’t watch all of SAM, so I have no clue how it ended. I’ve watched Something To Talk About probably a good ten times. (Love their dancing scene.)
On November 21, 2009 at 9:38 pm Deborah Blake said...
I couldn’t even bring myself to watch Something About Mary, so you’re not alone. And I liked America’s Sweethearts, but I have a soft spot for Julia Roberts (so sue me).
On November 22, 2009 at 5:14 am CrankyOtter said...
Just had a discussion with another woman who found not much funny about Something About Mary. The guys we were with gave it big thumbs up. I don’t get it.
Something to Talk About – with JRoberts and Kyra Sedgewick? Excellent movie. Good character growth. Kyra’s character was excellent in sticking up for her sister. Loved it, but it can be hard to watch too.
On December 11, 2009 at 1:44 am Joleesa said...
I loved Something to Talk About!!! I’m a Southern Girl (please note capital letters) and the line where he says “You southern girls sure have low expectations” (or something to that effect) was an epiphany for me! Dennis Quaid, Julia Roberts, Kira Sedgwick? Bobby Duval!!!! Awesome movie.
On November 20, 2009 at 10:18 pm Renee said...
It is disappointing to get to the end of a movie that you have enjoyed for the most part, only to come away with a feeling of de je vue (sp?) I and I was also disappointed in Sandra Bullock for letting it happen. Haven’t seen the other one, so I’m glad to be warned. I would like to recommend an older movie (it is tagged as a romantic comedy about the things we do for love) that wasn’t a blockbuster titled For Roseanna (also titled Roseanna’s Grave), but I found thoroughly enjoyable. It stars Mercedes Ruehl and Jean Reno. If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend it.
On November 20, 2009 at 10:40 pm J said...
Bringing up Baby is up there with Charade, How to steal a Million, and Father Goose when I want a romantic comedy.
On November 20, 2009 at 10:51 pm Hannah said...
Diane Lane usually does a great job with Rom Com. Under the Tuscan Sun is a favorite, Must Love Dogs (Another Cusack movie) works. A lovely slightly cheesy one is DB Sweeney in Cutting Edge The first one, not the ABC Family ones that came after and messed up the timeline.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:07 am Jenny said...
Cutting Edge. Mollie LOVED that movie when she was a teen. I remember Entertainment Weekly naming it one of the best movies of the year with the tag, “Come on, you know you love this stuff.”
On November 21, 2009 at 12:25 am PG said...
Oh, the Cutting Edge. That was a standby movie for me, my sisters and a couple of our best girlfriends, along with Mannequin, Pretty Woman, Steel Magnolias, Dirty Dancing. Hey, I’m just telling you how it was, not claiming we were Siskel & Ebert
On November 21, 2009 at 1:27 am SueG said...
toe pick
On November 21, 2009 at 5:01 am Moth said...
Ha.
Me, my mom and my sister used to make our male cousins all watch this with us on New Year’s. So good. And I love the declaration of love scene.
On November 21, 2009 at 9:39 pm Deborah Blake said...
I love both Under the Tuscan Sun and Cutting Edge. Another great one is A Good Year (set in Provence, and based on the fab book by Peter Mayle).
On November 20, 2009 at 11:36 pm Slave Driver said...
Along time ago (pre 1992 at least) there was a movie starring Steve Gutenberg, Shelley Long and Jamie Gertz called “Don’t tell her it’s me” about a sad sack guy (SG) recovering from cancer who falls for Jamie Gertz but he’s just not “Hero” material. Luckily SG’s sister, Shelley Long, is a, you guessed it, Romance Writer, so she coaches him on how to dress, act and even has him do a fake New Zealand accent. It was cute, and Steve Gutenberg’s makeup artist deserves an award for the transformation s/he did to him. This was at one time my favorite RC because of the common man theme. I haven’t seen it mentioned here and wonder if I’m the only person who ever saw it.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:09 am Jenny said...
I think that was based on a classic romance novel by Sarah Bird called The Boyfriend School.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:26 am PG said...
Hmm — I picked up The Boyfriend School many years ago based on the AAR review (way back when AAR was new), and liked the book OK for being set in Texas yet devoid of cowboys, but the AAR review made the movie sound very bad, so I’ve scrupulously avoided it.
On November 22, 2009 at 5:21 am Lurkella said...
Yes, “Don’t Tell Her It’s Me” was based on Sarah Bird’s novel “The Boyfriend School”, one of my all-time favorite books. It’s the book that convinced me that smart woman can read romance novels. As for the movie– talk about the Hollywood treatment. Everything charming about the book was changed, apart from the bare-bones of the plot. Character names were changed, their jobs were changed, all secondary characters were eliminated (how could anyone cut out Juanita Lusader?), and the location was changed. This last was particularly silly, since Austin, Texas was virtually a character itself. Somehow Sarah Bird got screenwriting credit, but I don’t believe it was her work on the screen. There is probably a painful story behind that. Anyway, if you like the movie I bet you’ll love the book.
Speaking of Texas as a character, one of my favorite rom-coms is “Tin Cup”, which couldn’t be set anywhere else. Don’t care about golf, but watching Renee Russo fall for scruffy, smitten Kevin Costner is so much fun.
On November 23, 2009 at 1:52 pm LolaMac said...
Love LOVE this movie! My sister named her cat Uncow in honor of “Uncow Gus.” You’ve got to love the sex education scene with the woman from Sordid Lives the TV series. My name is Lobo, Lobo Morunga!
On November 21, 2009 at 12:46 am Sure thing said...
My standby mainly Romantic, somehwat Comedy film is Ever After with Drew Barrymore. I think it’s because she rescues herself.
Looking through the small dvd collection, I don’t have any obvious RomComs. Hmm. Something to think about.
On November 21, 2009 at 8:48 pm Briana said...
50 First Dates. It’s really cute. At least Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore are cute. I dislike most of the scenes with what’s-his-name, though. Rob Schneider. He adds nothing to the movie except appeal to the 12-year-old boy audience. Oh, and make me think Sandler is probably a nice (loyal) guy for having him in his movies.
On December 11, 2009 at 1:46 am Joleesa said...
The Wedding Singer. Loved it.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:57 am Deb said...
I recently saw “My Life in Ruins”, with Nia Vardalos (actress from My Big Fat Greek Wedding and Richard Dreyfuss. Ruins wasn’t quite as good as Wedding, but I found it much more enjoyable than anything else I’ve seen recently, and the scenery alone was worth viewing. The marketing effort was done on Youtube as they didn’t have the budget for the usual blitz. Biggest reason, as Toni indicates, women just don’t go out to the theatres enough to justify the investment. The romantic interest for Vardalos’s character is pretty damn fine looking too. I have been finding indie and “little films” much more entertaining than the blockbusters. iTunes has been a godsend for these.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:15 am Melissa Blue said...
The Ugly Truth, wasn’t romantic. I think I watched it more so out of how in the world will they redeem this. They didn’t.
“They get to the end of the movie, and suddenly he’s Amish.”
The problem is any viewer could see their efforts a mile away when you get this sleeze-ball and then his nephew, or whatever he is, shows up on the scene and then he becomes “the decent guy”. The sage of advice to not treat young girls mean, grown women are different.
So, yeah, I’m a sailor-pouty mouth wrench and even I was offended.
I didn’t notice the same exact ending ending with The Proposal. Haven’t seen While You Were Sleeping in years, but either way I couldn’t buy it. I think the problem I had with that one is when Sandra needed the hero their roles changed. At first I cheered, because OMG he could have gotten better treatment in a third world dictatorship. But then all that hatred and payback crossed the line for me. Then I’m supposed to believe he’s in love? Pfft. Not to mention though they were being funny during the credits, they pretty much undid the HEA ending.
I know the problem I have no with RomComs is that the writers try to be witty, edgy, and modern instead of being witty, edgy and modern. Just show me the freaking story or at the very least don’t pander to me. Two people saying “I love you” doesn’t mean I believe it.
Anyway, ones that worked for me. YMMV
Made of Honor – fairly new in comparison to When Harry…Anyway, I think it worked because it wasn’t a man writing love from a woman’s POV, but from a man’s.
Brown Sugar – It has Mos Def, I love him for Def Poetry alone.
Overboard – Even my daughter loves this move. Don’t know why people don’t consider this a classic. It’s campy, but not in a gag me sort of way. Also, Kurt Russell, come on?
When Harry Met Sally
You’ve Got Mail – Jenny, I’ve heard your take on this one, but when I watched it recently I kept thinking she never really wanted the store for herself. She wanted to store to keep the memory of her mother alive. The store was a way for her not to change.
And, it has Tom Hanks. I’m absolutely biased.
Pretty Woman – But I don’t know why I prefer this over Runaway Bride, which has more character depth. I’m thinking it has a lot to do with the kissing scene.
I know they’re are more, but can’t think of them now. For me I can deal and accept the trope as long as that’s not the end of the line for explanation of plot or character. But I’m a very forgiving viewer. Back to the Future has so many plot holes and inconsistencies, but I will argue to Amazing Grace about how good that movie is. 1.21 Jiggawatts and all.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:31 pm JenK said...
I prefer Pretty Woman over Runaway Bride for the same reason Jenny didn’t like the first movie. Because it’s a re-make of a good movie. Runaway Bride made me furious. They took two characters that worked in another movie and decided they would work in this movie. Even if it was the best movie EVER, it’s still a re-make to capitalize on a good thing. Irritating.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:18 am Melissa Blue said...
Goodness gracious. I should have previewed before I hit submit. I’m going to bed. It’s been a long week.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:54 am London Mabel said...
Thanks for all the movie recs. Once Nano-November is over, I think I’ll have Watch Rom Com December.
On November 21, 2009 at 2:01 am Rosa said...
I really like “The Very Thought of You” with Joseph Fiennes except I have to be very careful to jump up and turn it off about 2 and a half minutes before the end. I should bittorrent it and make an edited version for myself.
I wanted to see 500 Days of Summer in the theater this summer, but I dragged my last willing friend to Definitely Maybe and no nobody will go see them with me.
Definitely Maybe had some cute moments, but from the minute he tells his daughter he & mommy broke up the first time because mommy cheated on him, I just couldn’t bear to look Ryan Reynolds in the face for the next hour plus. Plus the ending was just terrible. It was like there were two different cute movie scripts submitted and the producer thought “I know! Mash them together with a really awful framing device!”
On November 21, 2009 at 4:23 am Jenny said...
I liked Definitely Maybe. It had its problems, but its heart was in the right place, and everybody was treated decently, just people trying to figure out where they needed to be. Also, the scene where Rachel Weisz is in bed with Ryan Reynolds was filmed in the apartment I rent when I’m in NYC, so there was a nice, “Hey, that’s my bedroom” moment there. Of course, when I’m there, he isn’t, but still. 500 Days is on my DVD list if it ever comes out. I heard really good things about it, so my hopes are up again.
On November 21, 2009 at 3:36 am Micki said...
My current obsession is the BBC Pride and Prejudice, and PP offspring, the Indian Bride and Prejudice. (-: Romcom at its best.
My other favorites are not really straight romcom; I used to love Groundhog’s Day (but haven’t seen it for a few years, so not sure now). I recently saw Princess Bride for the first and second times, but while it’s a lovely movie, Blossom is a twit. So, I don’t know if it really counts for the rom part — maybe that’s what passes for romance in Guydom, a pretty placeholder who doesn’t argue.
Shrek was actually a very good romantic comedy, as far as characters go — both the hero and the heroine had real concerns, real personality, and their own hobbies (kung fu, and farting in the bath). It’s really hard to find a romantic comedy where both the hero and the heroine have depth; usually, one or the other is a shining trophy.
I’d love to see Bet Me as a movie . . . or a mini-series, even. (-: Save us from a full-length series, though — I’m sure the industry would warp it, and we’d have a weekly Min/Cal personality clash, saved with food items and mutual understanding. Absolutely brilliant in the book, but repeated until cancellation? Nightmare. “Lucy! You got some ‘splainin’ to do!” sort of thing . . . .
On November 21, 2009 at 4:25 am Jenny said...
I don’t think my stuff will ever make it in the movies. Too much interiority, not enough action. The Crusie-Mayers might have a shot–all that stuff blowing up–but most of my solos are people talking. We’ve had options, but I’ve never expected anything from them. The closest we ever came was with two really good producers who almost had a deal for Bet Me until the studio said they had only one stipulation: Min had to be thin. Yes, we didn’t understand that, either, and the producers really were good so they walked away.
And before anybody says anything, yes, I know it’s 3:30 AM. I have a book to finish and tonight I FINALLY figured out why the damn thing wouldn’t hold together: it’s three acts, not four. Major breakthrough. Very happy. Very tired. Going to bed. Structure post probably coming along in a day or so because I’m just so PLEASED with myself.
On November 21, 2009 at 4:30 pm JulieB said...
The first read through I thought “How could Jenny miss an entire act?” Now I think maybe you’re saying “This book doesn’t have 4 acts — it has a different structure.”
Anyway, I’ll look forward to the post.
On November 21, 2009 at 10:20 pm Kelly said...
Congratulations! Very happy for you and ultimately, for us.
On November 22, 2009 at 1:26 am London Mabel said...
I miss the 80s when they made trashy women’s books into Monday night miniseries (like Lace and the Krantz books.) Sigh.
On November 22, 2009 at 3:20 am Emily said...
I’m (sadly) not that surprised by the studio’s stipulation. Each time I read Bet Me and Agnes and the Hitman (and it has been many times for both), I think they would translate really well into a movie, but then I think it would never happen, cause it wou
On November 22, 2009 at 3:26 am Emily said...
Gah! accidentally knocked submit!
I’m (sadly) not that surprised by the studio’s stipulation. Each time I read Bet Me and Agnes and the Hitman (and it has been many times for both), I think they would translate really well into a movie, but then I think it would never happen, cause it would require a lead actress who wasn’t super-skinny, and that just doesn’t happen. Remember the fuss made for Bridget Jones, because Renee Zellwegar was willing to put on weight to become ordinary-sized.
And congratulations on the breakthrough!
On November 22, 2009 at 1:34 am London Mabel said...
I consider Princess Bride a BRILLIANT COMEDY, but not so much a Rom Com. I don’t love it for the love story, but for the humour. And as someone below said, the book is even better. There’s a whole other layer of humour going on in the book that you don’t get in the movie.
On November 23, 2009 at 11:57 am Slave Driver said...
The book is brilliant. Full of intrusive author’s voice, but he’s sly about it because it’s supposed to be there. He’s telling you that this is the Cliff notes version and the original is boring so he’s only putting in the good stuff. Plus you get a huge amount of background on Fezzik, a fabulous and loveable “bad” guy, who joined up with the goon squad because it was work, and work is work, you know? It’s a living…
On November 23, 2009 at 11:59 am Slave Driver said...
Bride and Prejudice was fab, and you can’t beat the soundtrack.
On November 21, 2009 at 6:10 am Annie said...
Okay I feel pretty weird writing this since it is bitchy, and maybe there is another section where I could say this but I’d have to hunt it down. I’m not that motivated. I just want to say that you sound as pissed off about these movies as I felt reading your collaborations with Mayer. I know I know some people loved those books, but I don’t get it. They were bad all I remember from them is the word clusterfuck, and I don’t even really get what that means. Maybe I’m an asshole for saying it, but you don’t understand how excited I was to read a brand new Crusie novel. I almost peed my pants. Then I started reading and I waited, and waited, and waited for that spark. You know that Min and Cal on a picnic table spark. It never came I just finished the book and all I could think was wtf was that. A lot of people like those books and hey thats great, but I don’t get how someone can read you’re solo works and then read your collaborations and still like them. I love the fact that you character’s just talk i don’t need an explosion I don’t even understand why an explosion is happening. To me Mayer in your novels is dead weight I never see your part and his come together. I know my opinion doesn’t really matter because your books probably sold butt loads, but I’ve had this on my chest for years. I had to say it. I love your books I wait for them in sick anticipation. I don’t mind being disappointed by movies, because honestly i expect to be disappointed. I almost always am, but when my favorite authors disappoint me I guess it just hits me where it hurts. If I get a lot of shit for this I understand and if this post is delete it’s all good. I am still a dedicated fan and I will buy your next solo book probably the day it’s available, and I promise never to bitch on your blog ever again. I feel so liberated. Good luck with all your stuff.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:02 pm Jenny said...
A rant inspired by a rant: good stuff.
It’s hard to analyze why books work for some people and not for others–although you’ve got a pretty good grip on why the CMs aren’t for you–but I think it all goes back to expectation. I used to love Robert Parker’s Spenser books but I wouldn’t even try his other series; I just wanted Spenser. If Dick Francis had ever stopped doing racing stories, I would have dropped him like a bad date. I want my writers writing the stuff I love, not the stuff they need to write, so I completely understand what you’re saying.
Of course, from a writer’s perspective, if you keep writing the same thing you dig your rut deeper. And my rut was getting pretty deep. So for about five years I did collaborations. I had other reasons, too–menopause did my brain no favors–but mostly I needed to do collaborations. At one point there was talk of putting only my name on the CMs but I said no because I wanted people to know there were two writers in there, that it wasn’t a Crusie. And we put up the first chapters of all the CMs and the other collabs on the website so people could try without buying.
All of which is to say, you were warned. I said, “These are not Crusies.” This does not take care of the major problem which is that I was doing something else besides writing the solos you wanted, and having been there with my favorite authors, I sympathize, but I need to write what I need to write. So while I really do sympathize with your frustration–I’m assuming frustration is what drove you to rant the way it drove me to rant–I don’t think it’s going to get any better. I’m working on a solo now but it’s really different. It’s going to be followed by a first person mystery series. I’m never going to write Bet Me again. I changed.
Please bitch again when the frustration gets to you. Seriously. I think you’re speaking for a lot of people in that comment, and I think it’s a lot better to talk about it than to politely ignore what’s making you crazy. There are no personal attacks in your comment, you criticized the work not me, and that’s not only all right, I think it’s good. Plus, you’re liberated which is always good.
Having said that, I truly am sorry you’ve been disappointed with the collabs. I hate disappointing readers. You and I are kind of stuck with the situation, but the good news is, the world is full of terrific writers, so as I said, I’m not feeling guilty. Also, I like what I’ve been writing, so I wouldn’t feel guilty anyway.
But really, don’t stop ranting. I certainly have no plans to stop.
On November 21, 2009 at 4:37 pm naked under my clothes said...
A Crusie for me is like chocolate — Hershey’s Special Dark.
Crusie collaborations with other-than-Bob are like chocolate truffles — slightly different, but still sweet chocolate combined with other flavors.
Crusie-Mayers are like a rich chocolate mole sauce — chocolate in a whole new context, though still recognizably chocolate.
I am really interested to see what else Jennifer Crusie can do with chocolate — more truffles, more mole stories, more Special Dark bars, or something new. Fruit with chocolate, chocolate chip cookies, whatever.
On November 21, 2009 at 9:52 pm Deborah Blake said...
What “naked under my clothes” said…
Jennifer Crusie equals chocolate. Chocolate good. Jennifer Crusie equals good. ‘Nuff said.
Now you know why I’m “the Chocolate Stalker”
On November 22, 2009 at 1:32 am London Mabel said...
I figured when the story came out about you and your agent *breaking up* that you were headed towards new things. (Personally, Agnes was my favorite book.)
I agree that the most important thing is that the author do what she believes is right. Like when Prince did a 180 degree turn after Purple Rain, or that Nelly Furtado had her biggest commercial hit album ever, and then went and made a Spanish-language album. Whether or not I want to follow along for the ride, I have SO much respect for the courage/integrity that takes.
On November 23, 2009 at 3:24 am Annie said...
I tell you what it’s crazy awesome that you responded to my comment. Not just because I feel heard, but because you explained a lot of things. I appreciate that you are going in a different direction even if I don’t happen to follow.
I love to read it’s my “thing.” That being said I can tell when my favorite authors have recycled their stories for the last five books and only changed the character’s names. Now that frustrates me way more than a change in direction. Your change I can respect, because you respect me enough to tell me that your books are different.
I will buy your solo books whether they be romantic or not because I like the wiseass conversations. That’s what I didn’t like about the collaborations I always felt that the other authors hindered your setup. Even if there are no wisecracks I’ll still give them a shot.
Anyway I’m glad that you have the artistic liberty to write whatever you want, because that means you’re not going to sell me half-assed novels. I can respect different but I can’t respect half-assed. Thanks for responding to my rant it was my first ever! Well my first written one.
On November 21, 2009 at 11:13 am Diane said...
–You should see The Proposal, though. Ryan Reynolds has been doing sit-ups.
Also nicely visible in the Wolverine movie (although the rest of the flick was miserable)
My Favorite RomCom Movies:
My Man Godfrey (best screwball ever)
Desk Set (Tracy & Hepburn)
Adam’s Rib (Tracy & Hepburn) — hell, just about anything RomCom with those 2 should be on the list!
Bull Durham
What’s Up Doc? (screwball with Ryan O’Neal & Barbra Streisand)
The Apartment (Billy Wilder was a god. That man knew from dialog.)
Some Like it Hot (best Billy Wilder screwball)
How to Steal a Million
Down with Love (homage to 50′s Doris Day sex farces w/ Rene Zellweger & Ewan McGregor)
While You Were Sleeping
When Harry Met Sally
Sleepless in Seattle
Shakespeare in Love
Working Girl — Loved that the happy ending was more the job and less the guy (although the guy was pretty nice, too)
Clueless — its Austen. Of course I like it!
Roman Holiday — she makes the right choice.
Princess Bride — loved the movie (never get involved in a land war in Asia), but LOVEDx1000 the book. O. M. G.
Charade – Audrey summed it up in the dialog “You know what’s wrong with you? Nothing!”
RomCom’s I Was Less Than Thrilled With:
You’ve Got Mail — call me stoopid, but I didn’t see any character growth from anyone
Kate & Leopold — I detested the whingey, angry, no-peronal-growth Kate
What Women Want — Mel was a continuous bastard, and Helen Hunt was just annoying
Pretty Woman — really? prostitution as a path to true love and happiness?
Runaway Bride — just ugh.
Maid in Manhattan — could there be less chemistry between the leads? Not to mention stiff dialogue and badly paced.
Breakfast at Tiffany’s — I know I’ll turn in my “girl” license to the next officer, but I just loathed these characters.
You’ve Got Mail
On November 21, 2009 at 5:44 pm BrooklynShoeBabe said...
Ask a librarian and a former fact checker, I LOVE DESK SET!!!! How could I forget it? Shakespeare in Love was such a surprisingly good movie for me, because I usually don’t like movies that everyone likes. I really, really like it. Plus, Joseph Fiennes is really easy on the eyes. Down with Love was also really cute, and I normally don’t like Renee Zwelleger (sp?). Also, if you don’t mind man on man action, Jeffrey and In and Out are very good romantic comedy.
I saw 500 Days of Summer, and I loved staring at Joseph Gordon Levitt for the 90+ minutes. It was a good movie although I thought the female lead could have been fleshed out a bit.
On November 21, 2009 at 11:26 am steph said...
Someone mentioned Shag. Found that one in college and my roommate and I get together and watch it all the time. Just fabulous. Another one that has some great lines is Tin Cup. I love the line where Kevin Costner says something like he’s trying to reach his mythic destiny and he can’t even get off work.
Oh, and French Kiss. I can even get DH to watch that one. I get Kevin Kline and he gets Meg Ryan. It’s all good.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:32 pm Hannah said...
I’m sort of glad it looks like Bet Me won’t be a movie. But there are quite a few great actress that could play Min as written, not slimmed down. Brook Eliott (Drop Dead Diva) comes immediatly to mind.
I actually liked both The Boyfriend School and the movie. You can still catch the movie now and again on a week end afternoon.
On November 21, 2009 at 12:55 pm SBerry said...
Jenny, thanks for your rant. I’ve really enjoyed this thread.
First: Movies are a director’s medium. They can do anything they want with the script. That is why the director’s credit is the last one on the screen at the beginning of the movie. Don’t wish you favorite book onto the screen unless it was written by J K Rawling. The author/script writer must have a great deal of power before they can affect the outcome.
“Forgetting Sarah Marshall” – I highly recommend this movie. Like “500 Days of Summer” it is about finding true love and provides some great laughs on the way. The movie was marketed at the director/producer’s existing audience — 14-year-old-boys — and a lot of us missed it on the first run.
On November 21, 2009 at 1:06 pm Concord cherry said...
Great post! I have watched and/or collected most of these movies mentioned, especially the black and white ones. This probably falls outside the RomCom perimeters, but two all time favorites that I didn’t notice being mentioned are “Some Like It Hot” (Come on! There’s romance in there, remember the ending?) and The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) so hot, my eyeballs get burned every time, but worth the cold compresses.
On November 21, 2009 at 3:20 pm Richard said...
It’s interesting to be probably the only man writing a response in this discussion (and perhaps the only one reading it) but I’m kind of used to that after years of being the only man writing RomCom at Writers conferences and retreats going way back to the Maui Writers Retreat where Jenny met Bob and where I was the only man in Jenny’s “class” (Hi Jenny). The new added wrinkle to my “single guyness” is that my daughter’s reached 14, is looking for romance (she’s all about romance) and watching these new RomComs, searching for one decent one, (I watch them too, both because I love a good one and to see what she’s seeing). She’s also looking for a boy that doesn’t insult more than just her intelligence.
All in all the pickings seem slim. Why? Perhaps for all the reasons folks have mentioned about the creative process, Hollywood etc, but perhaps also for what I think has happened to “American Manhood”. (In the interest of full disclosure I’ve got an 8 year old son I’m trying to keep from turning into the young men I see not only in many modern movies but in most of my college classes where women increasingly not only outnumber guys but outclass them). I think the problem is a lot of our younger guys have been sold perpetual Beer AD/Adolescence in which men can be total, dorky inarticulate losers and still get the beautiful woman). Taken together with Rap songs etc that sell women as dancing, subservient sex starved eye candy—even often songs by the women—who can just be told to “come here bitch” and you’ve got a terrible training for growing up into men who can handle banter and powerful women as partners.
Hasn’t it always been this way? Not totally. When I was growing up in the days of Playboy (before Hugh Hefner sank into his puerile pajama party pathetic prostitution by another name phase) men were at least expected to acquire skills to get the girls, and getting the girls was perhaps the great motivator for guys getting civilized in the first place. James Bond had to at least know how to make a martini and which wire to cut to prevent Armageddon. The media message for young men today sells them on learning how to relate to women from pornos (which most of my daughters 8th grade male classmates at her high class private school admit to watching on the internet) or the aforementioned music which, unfortunately, my daughter and her friends sing along to.
I may be overly cynical here but it’s sad to see my girl writing off huge swaths of guys on her way to her vision of going to Yale etc., like Rory from Gilmore Girls, a show I turned her on to whose writing spoiled both of us for most movies and made me yearn for the romcoms of old (or a Jenny Crusie novel).
Is all hope lost? Not totally. One movie I can recommend that gave me hope was 500 Days of Summer. The hero was a sensitive yet articulate and suave—at times—guy. Free of the “Ugly Truth” stud-dumb or the Seth Rogen stoner dork dysfunction. I’d love to see more guys like that, both on screen and in my daughter’s life.
On November 22, 2009 at 1:44 am London Mabel said...
1. I loved The Tao of Steve. It’s about a guy who knows how to sleep with women even though he’s overweight / doesn’t have money etc. But by the end he has to learn what it takes to do more than sleep around, but to really LOVE someone.
2. I don’t know if your daughter still reads teen books, but I just read E Lockhart’s The Disreputable History of Frankie Landau Banks and loved it. It’s a really sophisticated take on the dynamics between girls and guys at that age. And the characters all have that Gilmore Girls cleverness.
3. And yet I will always have a soft place for the ridiculous boys in movies like Knocked Up. But maybe that’s cause I’m 36 and can enjoy them from afar.
On November 21, 2009 at 3:52 pm Micky said...
I’m sure most of these were already mentioned…
Sabrina
Bringing Up Baby
Princess Bride
Shrek
Enchanted
Forgetting Sara Marshall
How To Lose a Guy in 10 Days
The Wedding Singer
16 Candles
On November 22, 2009 at 1:46 am London Mabel said...
Wedding Singer!
On November 21, 2009 at 5:47 pm Carol-Ann said...
I now feel the need to watch about 15 rom coms in the next 2 hours! Bringing up baby, What’s up doc and While you were sleeping are possibly my own personal top 3, but one so-called rom com that I wish I’d walked out of in the cinema was Forty Days and Forty Nights. I knew in the first 3 minutes that this was the worst film I’ve ever seen in the cinema, in which he spent his time videoing his girlfriend do everything and then wonder why she dumped him. Wish I’d left then. However, it hit an all time cinematic low with rape as a comedy ending!
The ex slipped him viagra and then rode him like a pony when the new love interest walked in. And for some reason that escapes me now he had been tied to the bed when the ex came in, and he said no, so yes, definitely rape. Disgusting and degrading for all concerned, and I’ve never looked at any of them the same way again.
On November 21, 2009 at 5:49 pm Flamingo Cherry said...
Always, with Richard Dreyfuss.
America’s Sweethearts
Say Anything
Three Men and a Little Lady
How to Murder Your Wife
On November 22, 2009 at 1:48 am London Mabel said...
The romance at the start of Always… is just about perfect. The chemistry between those two was unbelievable. “You bought me girl clothes!”
(Sorry… I keep coming back to this thread because I’m collecting all the recommendations for movies I haven’t seen.)
On November 22, 2009 at 11:20 pm Flamingo Cherry said...
And it wasn’t the act of him buying girl clothes that melted her; it was that they demonstrated how he saw a part of her that nobody else did.
To me, that’s one of the essential parts of love (the real stuff, not the fictionalized version) … that there is somebody else out that who “gets” you, and is captivated by who you ARE, good, bad, ugly and beautiful.
On November 23, 2009 at 2:56 am London Mabel said...
Absolutely. “I love the way you see me” (or something like that.)
On November 21, 2009 at 9:13 pm Judy Long said...
One that I absolutely love that hasn’t been mentioned is Made In Heaven with Timothy Hutton and Kelly McGillis. I used to watch that and American Dreamer whenever I needed a pick me up.
On November 22, 2009 at 9:46 am MJ said...
A movie ruined in one scene for me was How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. When they got up and sang their angry songs, I was so turned off.
I went to see The Ugly Truth because I love Gerard Butler. Then I rented it and now I’m done.
I didn’t recognize the copied ending in The Proposal, but I didn’t like that scene. I loved the rest, though. Cried when the grandmother gave the heroine the necklace that had been in her family. Drooled when RR was naked.
My favorites are
Paperback Hero, an Aussie movie with Hugh Jackman as a romance author
Romancing the Stone
2 Weeks Notice
Love Actually
Foul Play
What’s Up Doc?
Bridget Jones
10 Things I Hate About You
On November 22, 2009 at 12:33 pm Bingolittle said...
I really shouldn’t be interested in this, as I never watch rom coms. I’ve not been able to take them seriously since Diana Rigg was reported as saying she dreaded the kissing scenes with George Lazenby because he was somewhat fragrant. Whenever hero kisses heroine (or vice versa) on screen now, I wonder what they had for lunch. It just kills any romance stone dead for me. I’ll just carry on reading books instead as those characters can be as real as I want them to be, garlic notwithstanding.
Thanks all for an entertaining read though.
On November 22, 2009 at 4:23 pm Steff M said...
With all the great movies listed I had to toss in one of my new favorites – Just Friends with Ryan Reynolds. I laugh my butt off every time I watch it. Plus, you know, Ryan Reynolds.
On November 22, 2009 at 7:17 pm Sheena said...
Yes, Enchanted! Perfectly done.
I don’t know whether you’d call Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day strictly romantic comedy, but I loved it and it gave me that “love triumphs” buzz. Amy Adams gives me hope for the genre.
Also, Baz Lehrman’s Red Curtain Trilogy – especially Moulin Rouge. My definition of romance is Ewan McGregor singing Elton John to Nicole Kidman on the roof.
Of the older movies, two of my favourites are The Music Man and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (and of course Singin’ in the Rain, and High Society). Sue me, I’m a sucker for musicals, so I was totally charmed by Music and Lyrics also. I loved that Hugh Grant kept having trouble with his hips, and the perfect takeoffs of 80s music.
On November 23, 2009 at 2:52 am London Mabel said...
I really enjoyed Miss Pettigrew. As for Baz, nothing tops Strictly Ballroom, which is great romance and great comedy. Definitely one of my top faves.
(And speaking of “sue me” — the musical Guys and Dolls! That’s another good one.)
On November 22, 2009 at 8:07 pm Mary Kay Andrews said...
As a writer and fan of rom-coms, I’d have to list SABRINA as my all time favorite, along with CHARADE–I named a character in a book Regina just so I could have the hero call her “Reggie” as Cary Grant calls Audrey that in CHARADE. Jenny, I’m so with you on your rant against most romcoms. KNOCKED UP was romanatic? In what sense? I don’t think my friends and I will ever rid ourselves of the visual of Heigl doing it doggie-style with that repellant actor whose name I’ve forgotten, while what, 8 months pregnant??? Eeew. I’m eagerly awaiting the new Meryl Streep-Alec Baldwin movie. Meryl could class up the Three Stooges.
On November 23, 2009 at 2:51 am London Mabel said...
I thought Knocked Up was a terrible romance–no chemistry, they should have ended as friends. But I loooved all the scenes with his roommates. So as a comedy I was all in.
On November 23, 2009 at 1:15 am Geek Mom said...
Okay, so the one I just have to add is ‘It Happened One Night’ with Clark Gable. I love this old movie, one of my fav’s. I’m a sucker for old movies so mine are: The Women, Desk Set, Adam’s Rib, The Philadelphia Story and it’s remake High Society, How to Steal a Million, How to Marry a Millionaire, etc. There’s such a plethera of classic romcoms. It’s the biggest reason for me to have Netflix since they carry such a variety.
On November 23, 2009 at 1:38 am Susan D said...
Oh joy. Lots of good ideas here for movies to track down.
And I’ll add: IQ. Meg Ryan and Tim Robbins. And Einstein.
On November 23, 2009 at 2:09 am Jenny said...
This reminded me a romcom I loved and haven’t seen in years: Trenchcoat. Anybody remember that? About a woman who wanted to be a mystery writer vacationing in Malta? Her book started out “Malta wants me dead . . .” Margot Kidder and Robert Hays. I just looked and it’s not on DVD, just on VHS. Rats.
On November 23, 2009 at 10:59 am Jo Walton said...
The one I saw this summer and thoroughly enjoyed was “Last Chance Harvey” with Emma Thompson and Robert de Niro. It’s sweet and funny and I liked both the characters.
On December 7, 2009 at 3:54 am London Mabel said...
Glad to hear it – was wondering whether to rent.
On November 23, 2009 at 11:02 am Mary Kay Andrews said...
And another oldie: GAMBIT, which is not just a romcom but a heist movie–and I love me a heist. Shirley MacLaine at her most adorable, with Michael Caine, also adorable, circa 1966. Check it out.
On November 23, 2009 at 12:12 pm Jenny said...
I love Gambit. It’s another one that’s not on DVD but I was hoping that since the Coens were remaking it with Colin Firth, they’d bring the original out, too, except that the remake has sort of evaporated, too. Such a good movie.
On November 23, 2009 at 2:14 pm LolaMac said...
Not your typical RomCom, but j’adore Amelie. It’s so wonderfully quirky. The scene at the end when she and Nino kiss, ahhh. That’s the kind you wish for.
On November 23, 2009 at 4:25 pm Bernie said...
I realize I am way late to the party here, but just had to say THANK YOU! I agreed with so much of what was said here regarding the quality of rom-com movies and with the lists of good movies and books. It is nice to know that somewhere out there are women that share my p.o.v. on some of this stuff!
BTW~ my own little movie rec “You Kill Me”… a quirky dark rom-com that is acutally listed under crime genre, but stars Teá Leoni who I am beginning to think just watch anything she is in because it is usally good. Liked her so much in Ghost Town and wasn’t she in Spanglish? Gotta love that NetFlix!
Would also recommend “The Girl in the Cafe” with Bill Nighy. Not really comedy but some good funny parts in a very human sort of way.
On November 23, 2009 at 8:26 pm Marta said...
Auntie Mame, with Rosalind Russell. Wonderful movie with such great characters. I know it’s not strictly a romantic comedy, but there’s one in there.
The American President for some of the best dialog ever, and a phenomenal cast.
The Quiet Man with John Wayne and Maureen O’Hara is lovely, but subtle on the humor.
My Favorite Wife, the original with Cary Grant and Irene Dunne.
Bye Bye Birdie is just plain fun.
On November 25, 2009 at 4:01 pm CatScott said...
The whole time I was reading this blog post The Ugly Truth was sitting on my television waiting for me. I was really looking forward to watching Gerry so I threw caution to the wind.
Last night my boyfriend and I decided to pop it in. I told him before it started that a bunch of women didn’t like it. This caused some eye rolling on his part. We don’t often like or dislike movies other people rave about or hate.
Twelve minutes in we were looking at each other shaking our heads. Everything said here about that movie is 100% true! It’s bad when the most likable character is the throw away guy (Collin).
I’m a pretty big Gerard Butler fan. I’ve seen Dracula 2000 and Beowulf just for him. Neither of these are good movies but I love watching him. I don’t think I’ll ever watch this one again even for him!
When I asked the bf if he wanted to watch the alternate endings to see if they were any better he replied “Isn’t it enough that it ended?” LOL
The sad part is that I kept calling this movie The Awful Truth, which now feels like such sacrilege! I might have to watch The Awful Truth to scrub the bad taste of The Ugly Truth out of my head! I might just have to have a whole Cary Grant marathon this holiday weekend!
Thanks for trying to warn the rest of us about this total crap movie! Next time I will most certainly heed the warning.
On November 27, 2009 at 2:00 am Cindy said...
“Hope Floats.” Sandra Bullock and Harry Connick Jr. Sad, tragic, funny….romantic. And with Gena Rowlands and the amazing Mae Whitman. OMG, he picks her up and tosses her into his truck….sigh.
And, always yes to Ryan Reynolds’ abs…..and euwwwwww to “The Ugly Truth”….even my 24- year-old son summarized it in one phrase, “That was pretty crass, wasn’t it Mom?”
On November 30, 2009 at 7:18 am colognegrrl said...
It took me a while to read the comments, hoping that somebody would mention my favorites “Working Girl”, “Overboard”, and “What’s up Doc?” – at least somebody did, and yet I must write myself to mention them once more because that’s what they deserve.
On December 1, 2009 at 2:43 pm JLondon said...
I really love “Earth Girls Are Easy”, Julien Temple’s musical comedy where the Valley Girl gets the handsome Alien. I think it could count as a rom-com. Geena Davis is a wonderful comic actress and looks fabulous, Jeff Goldblum is good enough to eat (after he gets the makeover). The dialogue is very snappy, especially for Julie Brown who gets some great lines.
On December 1, 2009 at 4:15 pm Jenny said...
Julie Brown also had the best song which inexplicably is not on the soundtrack album. I think that may have been Jim Carrey’s first movie, too. Wonder if I still have that DVD? Must go look.
On December 3, 2009 at 8:22 pm Infogenium said...
Thanks for a very interesting discussion and good to know I am not just being a cranky old biddy. I have given up on “new” movies both cinema releases and dvd releases. Too many times borrowed, watched, response ‘meh’ and returned with a grumpy want to write a note to the film people/on the dvd case saying DON”T EVEN BOTHER (never done it though but sooo want to).
On December 4, 2009 at 4:23 pm Sharon said...
I have really enjoyed reading all these comments especially since I have been trying to collect a selection of DVD’s. I have listed all the purchased ones in a book and was surprised to look over the list and see some of the ones listed here but the amount of rom-com is sadly lacking. I too have rented movies and wanted to write DON’T BOTHER on the case. Is it because we are older and more discriminating -we are not content to spend our time and money watching incomplete characters, bad dialog and even worse actions? The younger generations seem to put up with romance only if there is lots of action thrown in-Spiderman, X-men and on and on. The teen / young adult set seems to be the target audience for the movie makers. It is sad but I rarely go to the movies now-my mother always said that as I got older I would have to give up more and more of my vices. Just let me keep chocolate and Jenny Crusie novels!!
On December 6, 2009 at 3:36 am Stephanie said...
I’m a sucker for the old Doris Day/Rock Hudson comedies. Pillow Talk remains one of my favorite movies of all time. While I like Down with Love for the story, Renee Zelwegger does not possess half of the charm that made Doris Day likeable. Other movies that I will watch every time they come on: Stardust, The Holiday, Simply Irresistable, Sweet Home Alabama, Sabrina (the Audrey version!), American President, That Touch of Mink, His Girl Friday, Something to Talk About, Clueless, Just Like Heaven, and The Truth About Cats and Dogs.