Jennifer Crusie | Argh Ink | Blog | How To Write Writing Tips

How To Write Writing Tips

Nov162009

The Huff Post put up a list from Allen Ginsberg titled “The Best Writing Tips Ever.” The list is, uh, uneven. There’s some good stuff in there, but the approach is precious, and the list is too damn long–eighty-three entries–and life is too short. Take “Every third thought should be my grave.” That’s from The Tempest, and I’m sure if I thought long enough I could find a way to twist the meaning so it fit some arcane writing tip or insight, but, well, why?

I think this list stems from the misconception that in order to be a good writer, you have to be Deep. That would explain “tips” like “Speech synchronizes mind and body.” Does that mean what you say is the synthesis of what you think and what you feel? Because if so, it’s wrong. We say damn near anything; what really betrays our character is what we do. Or to quote another deep thinker, “Character is what you are in the dark.” That’s Emilio Lizardo from Buckaroo Banzai. Hey, I can quote the greats, too.

There are some here I can get behind. “Form is never more than an extension of content” is a little too draconian for me, but I’ll go along with “Form is content.” Keat’s negative capability is in here and I like that one, but it’s easier and more direct to say, “Don’t look down.”

But for every interesting and possibly useful tip, there’s one like “Close to the nose.” That’s it, that’s the whole tip. I think “Notice what you notice” means pay attention to the details that catch you, but all that gives you is information about yourself not your story; if you notice instead what your protagonist notices, you’re building character. “Catch yourself thinking” seems like a one-way ticket to writer’s block. “The natural object is always the adequate symbol.” “Savor vowels, appreciate consonants.” “What’s the sound of one hand clapping?” (“Whoosh,” which also happens to be the sound deadlines make as they pass by, and thank you, Douglas Adams.)

I think this is an emperor’s-new-clothes list, the kind of thing that makes you think that there’s something wrong with you if you don’t understand it. I’ve got two master’s degrees in writing–one in non-fiction, one in fiction–and I can probably extrapolate good advice from about half of these, although the best one on there is still “Show don’t tell.” The point is, if I have to translate what the writing tip is, it’s a badly written writing tip. And call me crazy, but I’m really not interested in taking writing tips from somebody who writes badly.

In Ginsberg’s defense, he didn’t call these “Writing Tips”–that was a Huff Post headliner writer–he called them Mind Writing Slogans. Yeah, I don’t know what that means, either. I think it was just a list of things that meant something to him about writing. His sin isn’t making the list, it’s handing it to other people as if it had universal value instead of personal resonance. And then those other people passed it along, saying “Here’s Ginsberg’s Mind Writing Slogans; they’re deep.” And the rest of us look at the list and think, “WTF?” and feel inadequate because clearly, we’re shallow, shallow in this case meaning, “Needing the information given to us to be both valuable and clearly understood.”

I have some writing tips I treasure. The best one is from Elmore Leonard: “I try not to write the parts people skip.” That one takes care of most of the writing sins anybody commits. Leonard compiled his top ten writing tips into a very slender book which I bought because I owe him for that one line. The list is

“Elmore Leonard’s Ten Rules of Writing

1. Never open a book with weather.
2. Avoid prologues.
3. Never use a verb other than “said” to carry dialogue.
4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb “said”…he admonished gravely.
5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
6. Never use the words “suddenly” or “all hell broke loose.”
7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
9. Don’t go into great detail describing places and things.
10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.

My most important rule is one that sums up the 10.

If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.”
— Elmore Leonard

Or read Strunk and White, especially this beautiful paragraph:

Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell.

That one sends chills down my spine, it’s that important and that beautifully written; try taking a word out of that paragraph; it’s cut to the bone, and its meaning shines like a beacon in the dark night of the despairing writer’s soul, guiding her or him home. Then Leonard’s list mops up the rest of the questions. I trust these writers because they know how to write. It doesn’t hurt that in almost twenty years of writing, I have discovered everything that these gentlemen have said about writing to be absolute gold, but mostly it’s that when they write, they communicate. They are not trying to dazzle you with their depth or their vocabularies, they are not trying to put themselves in front of their words, they are not trying to commit great writing; they’re just getting their meaning across clearly and effectively. Which, as it happens, is great writing.

Or as Ginsberg would say, “Candor ends paranoia.”

Yeah, stick with Leonard, Strunk, and White.

Filed in Writing

65 Comments to 'How To Write Writing Tips'

On November 16, 2009 at 9:57 pm Shari S said...

Thanks (again) for the insight. You hear all the time about “Da Rules” of writing from various sources. I am so glad I can come to your blog and hear about the heart and common sense of writing.

On November 16, 2009 at 10:01 pm Merry the CB said...

I think I’ll skip ‘Howl’s Moving Thoughts’ and stick to Elmore Leonard, thanks.

On November 16, 2009 at 10:15 pm Office Wench Cherry said...

I think more writers should live by Leonard’s rule 10. And rule two. I read a book recently by a best selling fantasy writer and all but the last, oh, fifty pages was basically prologue. The writer could have skipped writing the bulk of the book because I certainly skipped reading it.

On November 16, 2009 at 11:36 pm JulieB said...

I still like to use a few alternatives to “said.” I believe I only used “said” as a reporter, almost everything else was biased in one way or the other. For 80-95% of my dialogue, I try to stick to said. But sometimes I want something more. (she hissed.)

On November 16, 2009 at 11:38 pm Jackie said...

I can’t decide! They’re both really useful. I refuse to choose. Did you notice that Leonard is concise and vigorous and Stunk and White is the part that’s read?

On November 16, 2009 at 11:39 pm Jackie said...

Well. I read it. Often.

On November 16, 2009 at 11:50 pm Hannah said...

I will add allow yourself to be edited.

On November 16, 2009 at 11:51 pm Jessie Sin said...

I like the tip that sentences should contain no unnecessary words and paragraphs no unnecessary sentences. But I wouldn’t say it is the “best” tip. I have yet to find the best tip or view on the writing process, which is probably why I struggle with my writing so much. My friend writes w a view something along the lines of “Don’t get it RIGHT, just WRITE.” She’s very big on just getting it out and on paper then goes back and edits five thousand times. Just goes to show how different people can be. Personally, the most helpful thing I’ve come across is something I think I came up with myself out of pure frustration. A single word: Fast. I don’t like reading detail so I have a hard time writing it. One day I restarted my novel and just wrote with the thought of Fast! in my mind. And now, that beginning section is the best part or the book bc its to the point, easy to read, and holds the reader’s attention.

On November 17, 2009 at 12:47 am Lilah Pierce said...

Hannah’s is a good tip. I agree with hers and Mr. Leonard’s # 10

On November 17, 2009 at 1:15 am Micki said...

Maybe they are supposed to be Chinese fortune cookie fortunes? I only made it a little way down the list; perhaps it’s better to take one slogan at a time and meditate on it.

(-: One way I can tell if a writer is “good” is if they still irritate the hell out of me two days later. I think that’s the goal of a lot of these “deep” authors.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:23 am Micki said...

Just saw the poll. I think the most valuable tip for writing is “just write.” Maybe “Don’t look down” is close to what I want to say? (-: But I still am in that stage where I’m scared to write.

The problem with “don’t write the parts people skip” is that people skip different parts. And maybe what I skip on the first read, I pick up on the second (or third, or 10th) read, and appreciate and value. How many times have you re-read an Elmore Leonard book?

(I do admit, he’s great fun to read the first time, and if I were stuck in an airport with nothing else, I would be happy to re-read a book of his again. But . . . we’re not talking comfort book here. It’s nice to have cozy little bits tucked in so that even the familiar reader can have a little surprise.)

Vigorous writing is concise — is great, as far as it goes. But I still wouldn’t put it in the top five writing advice selections. Still, it is a very, very important piece of advice.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:32 am g and t said...

There should be more Buckaroo Banzai.

On November 23, 2009 at 10:21 pm lee said...

yus – there should

substantially more

And Perfect Tommy.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:50 am CrankyOtter said...

Most of those things seem like good ideas and I can see them in your writing. However, I must vehemently disagree about “said”. While it usually doesn’t stand out and insert itself into the story, presumably why the advice is given, too many saids in a row without variety will drive me batty, sometimes in your stories too. I stop reading and ask, “what, she couldn’t have queried?” Because we cannot hear the dialogue, being slightly redundant with, ‘”and…um…I’d like to…um…introduce…um…” she stumbled’ adds to the feeling of the scene for me. Sometimes characters do stumble. Or expound. “said” lets us know they reacted emotionally to the statement- possibly indicating boredom or embarrassment given these examples.

Me, I have to go back and edit everything to make sure it doesn’t all start with “and”,”so”, or “but” because that’s the way I talk and write naturally and have done since I was first learning to print. It’s ok to a point, but after that it gets overwhelming much like tagging every bit of dialogue with “said”. ihmo, ymmv.

When writing non-fiction (which is all I write), I use a tip from general organization: put like with like. In addition to starting with conjunctions, the way I write words and ideas emerge tangentially and helter skelter. I find if I write down everything I want to say then go back and group all the related sentences, it gets my point across better than if I try to write in order, or if I leave the first draft as is. I practice doing it when I blog or write work emails.
…she expounded.

And please keep up the writing tips. I’m still waiting for the HWSH book.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:57 am CrankyOtter said...

Gah! Where I said
. Or expound. “said”
It should say
. Or expound. Using one of these modifiers instead of “said”.
But I’m typing on my netbook that seems to think my thumb hovering over the space bar means I’ve touched the touchpad and want to select, move, or delete random blocks of text. And I’d tried so hard to edit that.

Oh well, at least here I can remember to say “thanks Jenny!” You’re awesome for posting these writing tips and explaining others. I think you’re right in that those statements meant something to Ginsburg but won’t have resonance- or any meaning at all – for a vast collection of other people and shouldn’t have been sold as advice by the headline.

On November 17, 2009 at 2:11 am Jenny said...

Here’s the thing about “said:” it’s such a common usage that it’s not really a word in fiction any more, it reads more like punctuation. So a reader will read “she said” without having to think about it, but “she queried” will stop her dead in her tracks because she has to give it meaning. If you want your writing as transparent as possible, modify the speech with action instead of said (She stood up. “I don’t think so.”) but if you have to have a speech tag, use “said.” I usually use “said” instead of “asked” when the dialogue is a question because it’s so transparent; “queried” would make my head explode. But really, if you have too many “said”s, tag some with a line of action instead of any substitution for “said.”

On November 17, 2009 at 12:01 pm Bethany said...

I really wish someone had told my early English teachers that. I remember exercises in junior high where we were not allowed to use the word “said” at all, use the same verb twice in a page, or some other silly “expand your writing vocabulary” exercise. When we wrote our own books in 8th grade (mine was a science fiction ya pseudo-romance that accidentally plagiarized Star Trek tech because I didn’t realize phasers were only a Star Trek thing) I got into an argument with the teacher because he thought the aliens should hiss and boom and yell when I just wanted them to say things.

Hm, now tempted to find that book over Thanksgiving and see if my writing is as bad as I remember…

On November 17, 2009 at 4:49 pm Carol Anne said...

This is exactly what my writing instructor said. It becomes punctuation. I have been listening to your books on cd/rom while working. Having read your books and now listening to your books, the word ’said’ is the period at the end of the sentence. My imagination still fills in the speaker’s emotional state or reaction. I am getting so much more done with a good book playing in the background. The interesting thing, having read the book and then listening to the book, I can really appreciate the craft of writing. The craft of weaving the characters in and out of situations up to the big climax and the new reality. Really appreciate excellent writing.

On November 18, 2009 at 1:03 pm Meredith B. said...

I love audio books because when I’m reading visually I get so sucked in that I really only experience the text– it’s an effort to pull back and analyze. So in my college English classes I found myself reading every book at least twice, which isn’t actually bad, but can be time consuming. When I listen to audio books, though, it’s like being in a good lecture– I can have my own, related thoughts simultaneously. How I wish I had known this about myself in college! Serious geek admission– sometimes I like to sit at the kitchen table listening to an audio book and taking notes, although what I’ll ever do with the notes I haven’t the slightest clue.

On November 18, 2009 at 2:50 pm Carol Anne said...

Exactly, Meredith B.
I will be listening, hear something, then a great light bulb goes on. I have read BET ME several times, then listened to the audio book. I ‘got’ it, the craft of writing. . . a good lecture with extra bits.

On November 17, 2009 at 5:02 am Mariah said...

I agree that “said” is invisible when reading to oneself. However, in the event that the story is read aloud, “said” after “said” after “said” quickly stops being invisible and really grates on my nerves. There are other words, such as “asked” (or even “hissed”), that don’t throw me out of the story, but actually improve the rhythm, especially when read aloud.

On November 17, 2009 at 11:29 am JulieB said...

Thanks CrankyOtter and Mariah — you said it better than I.

On November 17, 2009 at 11:30 am JulieB said...

Although, I DO use action rather than speech tags most of the time.

On November 17, 2009 at 12:16 pm Jenny said...

The problem is that reading and being read to are two different things and you really can’t write for both. If you’re writing radio plays, you write very differently from the way you write fiction. Now that so much fiction is being done as books on tape, that stands out more, but since my paper sales far outweigh my tape sales, I’m still writing for the reader not the listener.

I do agree that repetition of anything is annoying which is why the action tag is so much better than any speech tag, but if you’ve got four people talking on the same page, your reader is having enough trouble keeping them straight and you’re gonna need those “said”s. If it’s a book on tape, the person reading the book can change the voices and that makes all those “said”s unnecessary, but again, I’m writing for the reader, not the listener.

I’ll give you “asked,” but “hissed” is misused all the time because the only sound you can really hiss is that “sssssssss” hissing sound. You can hiss, “Ssssso, scissssssssors,” but you can’t hiss “Stop that!” I used “whispered” in that case, and the reader does have to read that instead of just absorbing it, but in that case, she’s actually getting information, that the speaker is speaking in a low voice. When you write, “‘What is that?’ she queried,” the reader knows it’s a question because of the question mark, so the five-dollar “queried” slows her down for no good reason.

On November 18, 2009 at 2:58 pm CrankyOtter said...

And I will read your books no matter how many “saids” you use! In fact, I found myself wondering where I’d put my book as I needed to finish it, when I realized I was thinking about the NaNo stuff you’d written and I’d been reading on the plane. So thanks again for sharing your expertise! I’ll be throwing money at your work as soon as I can get the books into my grubby little paws.

On November 17, 2009 at 9:18 am nora lumiere said...

9. Don’t go into great detail describing places and things. 
Absolutely! I skip the parts that describe a character’s wardrobe and the detailed contents of their house. Also the bits that go on about their surroundings.
John LeCarre once described a place as “smelled of mushrooms” and that was all and it was hugely evocative.
I like the concise writing and good thinking on this blog and will read your books.

On November 17, 2009 at 9:40 am Kelly said...

My favorite writing tips are here on Argh Ink. I am so grateful to Jenny for making the mysterious art of writing good fiction make at least a little sense.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed for an online Crusie workshop…

On November 17, 2009 at 11:21 am Shoshana said...

My most valuable writing tip:
Write first, edit later.

I realize that’s a little more basic, and perhaps not what your poll was referring to, but currently that’s still where I’m at.
Good thing I’m not trying to make a living at this.

On November 17, 2009 at 12:18 pm Jenny said...

AKA Don’t Look Down.

On November 17, 2009 at 12:06 pm robena grant said...

The only tip in the article that stood out for me was:
“Subject is known by what she sees.” A.G.
I might type that one up and tape it to the computer.

On November 17, 2009 at 12:14 pm Paulo Campos said...

a great list; thanks!

i also love Kurt Vonnegut’s similarly simple 8 short story “rules”

1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted.

2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.

3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.

4. Every sentence must do one of two things—reveal character or advance the action.

5. Start as close to the end as possible.

6. Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them—in order that the reader may see what they are made of.

7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Writing

On November 17, 2009 at 12:26 pm Jenny said...

I like these a lot. Thanks!

On November 17, 2009 at 10:34 pm JulieB said...

I love these too — although I think we could have a great debate on number 8!

On November 17, 2009 at 11:49 pm Jenny said...

I agree completely with number 8. The surprises should come in the story unfolding in the now, not from stuff you’re hiding in the back story. I want my readers to know everything that my POV character knows as soon as I can get it into the story naturally. I’m pretty sure most of my readers already know how my stories are going to end by the end of the first chapter. It’s the getting there that’s interesting.

On November 18, 2009 at 12:03 am Micki said...

Oh, yeah, I join the chorus and say “wow!” These are really good!

On November 18, 2009 at 2:56 pm CrankyOtter said...

Ooh, I really like those too! I’m pretty sure the recent Matt Damon movie the Informant failed for reason number 2 and 8. I was totally ready to leave before the movie got interesting, and there was no character I developed an attachment to, let alone a fondness for. I did learn something about lysine, but it was hardly worth it, esp. since Matt was uglied up for the role.

On November 17, 2009 at 12:30 pm JenK said...

Funny how many successful writers break those 10 rules. I’m thinking of La Nora here. She’s famous for over-describing her characters and giving every detail of every room they enter. Gah. It drives me insane. I don’t need to know about the brass bankers lamp in the corner unless the pouty-lipped virgin is going to bash the dangerous-eyed hero over the head with it. Ms. Roberts pretty much breaks from #7 down, yet still sells and sells and sells.

I think I’ll print out your tips and keep them to remind me that even amazingly famous writers need a map now and then.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:38 pm McB said...

“they are not trying to commit great writing; they’re just getting their meaning across clearly and effectively. Which, as it happens, is great writing. ”

That’s just such a perfect statement. Thank you. And the Vonnegut list is great, too.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm TerriO said...

I am loving these tips. I tend to omit descriptions so it’s great to read somewhere that this is not a cardinal sin. The only tip not mentioned that I love, and I wish I could remember where I first heard/read it, is “Don’t bore your reader.” Which I’m thinking is pretty much the same as don’t write the parts they skip.

On November 17, 2009 at 1:43 pm D. said...

Very similar to the tips in Stephen King’s “On Writing”. Love him or hate him, the man knows his stuff. Fantastic list, thanks.

On November 17, 2009 at 2:20 pm Cary said...

Recently picked up a new author from the library. (Small town, tiny budget, arguments over buying 15 copies of the latest Twilight novel versus 15 different books.) After reading the entire mystery novel, I was at a loss to explain their purchasing decision. They basically bought a resume – the writer did an excellent job establishing his knowledge of his protagonist’s industry, but “See how much I know!” isn’t entertainment – see Mr. Leonard’s Rule #10.

On November 17, 2009 at 2:27 pm Cary said...

PS – Never re-read your comments after finishing the NY Times weekly blog on style.

On November 17, 2009 at 3:03 pm Kate George said...

I stay away from dialog tags whenever I can, and use said when it’s needed to give the reader a clue to who is speaking.

My favorite writing tip is “Just do it.” And yes, I stole this from Nike. Because all the other tips don’t mean a thing if I don’t sit my hiney in the chair and actually write. After that it might be “write concisely and don’t bore your readers.”

I wish the comment box had spell check. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to spell things! All the spelling classes in the world could not teach my brain to see the letters in a word – and now I’m old so I don’t remember them. ; P

On November 17, 2009 at 3:15 pm Kate George said...

Hey Jenny,

This is off topic, but when are you going to write a book on how to market our books? Jenny Crusie’s Guide to Becoming a National Bestseller. I bet that book would be a bestseller long before it hit the shelves!

Or are you leaving those topics to Bob?

On November 17, 2009 at 8:24 pm Jenny said...

I have no idea how to become a bestseller except “Write for Jennifer Enderlin at St. Martin’s Press.”

Over to you, Bob.

On November 18, 2009 at 11:14 am Kate George said...

Okay, how about a book that tells us how to get Jennifer Enderlin as an editor? : ) – I know, I know, write your best book. Then edit it 17 times!

On November 17, 2009 at 3:42 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...

I tend to skip over the descriptions in books to focus on action and dialogue. When my daughter and I saw “The Pelican Brief” I told her that I didn’t expect the heroine to look like Julia Roberts. She told me that Grisham was thinking of Julia Roberts when he wrote the book. It didn’t come across when you don’t read the descriptions,.

I also love Elmore Leonard. I went to a booksigning of his where a lady in the front row kept addressing him as Elmer. He’s definitely an Elmore.

On November 17, 2009 at 8:25 pm Jenny said...

Actually, he goes by “Dutch.”
Although “Elmer” is cracking me up.

On November 17, 2009 at 7:02 pm Kira said...

That “oh-so-profound” list you quoted reminds me of SNL’s Deep Thoughts with Jack Handey.

It’s interesting about descriptions – Jonathan Kellerman always describes what people are wearing, but somehow I don’t find myself skipping it. He makes it seem as a necessary reflection of the character. Which sometimes makes me wonder what people infer from the way I dress…

On November 17, 2009 at 8:27 pm Jenny said...

I wear pajamas. They’re comfortable and I work at home, so for me, they’re business wear. But the kids keep me honest. After about three days, one of them will say, “Jenny, we’re tired of the blue sheep. Change into the pink kittens.”

On November 18, 2009 at 3:14 pm Sure thing said...

I get mine sewn for me.
I’ve got dark blue ones with lipstick print lips design for summer (I would have gotten ones with guys handprints but they didn’t have that fabric;-)). My winter ones are black with orange flames. Now if only I was daring enough with my daywear.

On November 17, 2009 at 10:10 pm Mary Stella said...

Vigorous writing is concise.

*nodding*

On November 17, 2009 at 11:15 pm McB said...

There are writers who can get away with the technical mistakes because they have the gift of storytelling. Which I should think is quite different than story writing but sometimes does translate well. However a writer can follow all the technical rules without becoming a storyteller. But when you find one that masters both, it’s a treasure.

Hi Cary.

On November 18, 2009 at 12:23 am JenK said...

I think I love reading the comments here as much as the blogging. And I really love the blogging. Fascinating conversations and comments.

It’s a wonderful place you have here.

On November 18, 2009 at 12:49 am Merry the CB said...

Well, I dunno. I was thinking the carpet’s looking a bit scruffy, and you might want to re-think those drapes.

Okay, aside from a few niggling design details, this is a nice* blog you’ve got here

*Though not, of course, purely respectable.

On November 18, 2009 at 1:05 am Jenny said...

That’s not carpet, you people are sloppy. I’ve told you a million times, no food in the blog, but noooooooooo. I guess we just can’t have nice things.

Thank you, Jen K.

On November 18, 2009 at 12:55 pm McB said...

It’s not really home until somebody spills dip on the sofa.

On November 18, 2009 at 1:33 am Marta said...

I realized it wasn’t carpet when part of it walked away.

Jenny, I’m a little confused by your time stamp. Are you writing so fast you’ve moved Ohio ahead an hour?

On November 18, 2009 at 3:40 am Reb said...

I absolutely love “they are not trying to commit great writing”. Sentences like that are why I read Argh. That, and the blue sheep.

My top tip comes from writing non-fiction, but still …

Blocked? Write a series of headings, then start filling one of them in.

On November 18, 2009 at 1:17 pm Meredith B. said...

We need a “like” button.

On November 18, 2009 at 4:29 am Melissa Blue said...

“Write as if your parents are dead” ~ Anne Lamott from Bird by Bird, which is the same as “Write for one person” or “write with the door closed”.

But for some reason I love this one more.

On November 18, 2009 at 12:42 pm Jackie said...

that would be another version of DLD….

On November 18, 2009 at 3:53 pm Melissa Blue said...

Yes. Sometimes the wording just resonates better. I didn’t get turning points until someone said it’s about the character facing their biggest fear. And that was months after the Cherries and Jenny Crusie talked about TPs..