Comments on: North vs South http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/ More than you ever wanted to hear from Bestselling Author Jenny Crusie. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:42:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: SnarkMaiden http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135417 SnarkMaiden Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:38:32 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135417 10 years: I totally buy that. North has been ignoring the fact that there was anything to think about breaking up with Andy beyond 'it's logical' as hard as he can for ten whole years. Unless something smacked him in the face like this he'd ignore it another 10 years, another 20 years, another 30 years. He drew a neat line under it. Doesn't mean he dealt with it or finished it or moved on from it. Infuriating man! (=typical excellent Crusie protagonist) that woman was built for distance: that made me laugh out loud, and didn't feel in the slightest bit suggestive. Gabe: please keep Gabe. Hell, have them catch Charlie on the radio or use Nick as their lawyer. That one line in What the lady wnats where Nick and Tess are at the party was a glorious thing because of the sense of recognition, the tiny puzzle. Reward your regulars! male POV: I have no idea whether these male characters sound like 'real men' talking to each other - though I certainly think they do. I'm afraid I don't actually care ;-) I like to read real male Crusie characters talking to each other. I like to hear Nick and Park or Gabe and Nick and Max talking. 10 years: I totally buy that. North has been ignoring the fact that there was anything to think about breaking up with Andy beyond ‘it’s logical’ as hard as he can for ten whole years. Unless something smacked him in the face like this he’d ignore it another 10 years, another 20 years, another 30 years. He drew a neat line under it. Doesn’t mean he dealt with it or finished it or moved on from it. Infuriating man! (=typical excellent Crusie protagonist)

that woman was built for distance: that made me laugh out loud, and didn’t feel in the slightest bit suggestive.

Gabe: please keep Gabe. Hell, have them catch Charlie on the radio or use Nick as their lawyer. That one line in What the lady wnats where Nick and Tess are at the party was a glorious thing because of the sense of recognition, the tiny puzzle. Reward your regulars!

male POV: I have no idea whether these male characters sound like ‘real men’ talking to each other – though I certainly think they do. I’m afraid I don’t actually care ;-) I like to read real male Crusie characters talking to each other. I like to hear Nick and Park or Gabe and Nick and Max talking.

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]]> By: Myra http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135327 Myra Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:53:41 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135327 Ditto. Southie called her Suzie like Riley does in Fast Women and my mind started goint there. I thinks it's funnt this book is flashing me back to Fast Women over and over (the couch and now suze) maybe I need to re-read it again :) Ditto. Southie called her Suzie like Riley does in Fast Women and my mind started goint there. I thinks it’s funnt this book is flashing me back to Fast Women over and over (the couch and now suze) maybe I need to re-read it again :)

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]]> By: Katie Redhead http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135315 Katie Redhead Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:51:33 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135315 My brothers would be more likely to say something along the lines of, "well enough to drive me nuts the whole time. The woman talks more than my ears can listen" My brothers would be more likely to say something along the lines of, “well enough to drive me nuts the whole time. The woman talks more than my ears can listen”

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]]> By: Katie Redhead http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135314 Katie Redhead Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:48:20 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135314 Jenny, I'm late and we may have moved on from here, but I have to say: That woman was built for distance... call me dirty, but that sounds like something my brothers wouldn't be saying about our mother, but about a girl they had a good time with. I wonder if you're re-working the Manolow reference anyway, you might want to think about if a man would say that about his mother in quite that way? Jenny, I’m late and we may have moved on from here, but I have to say: That woman was built for distance… call me dirty, but that sounds like something my brothers wouldn’t be saying about our mother, but about a girl they had a good time with. I wonder if you’re re-working the Manolow reference anyway, you might want to think about if a man would say that about his mother in quite that way?

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]]> By: Marta http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135310 Marta Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:34:39 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135310 It occurs to me we may be talking about two different concepts in our men-don't-chat debate, especially as regards relationships. I think it matters to whom they're speaking. Men don't chat to WOMEN about relationships. They talk to each other plenty. Back in my Air Force days, I was the only woman in big group of men. If you're defining 'chat' as casual conversation, believe me, they chat, and chat, and chat, even about relationships. They also discuss relationships more seriously amongst themselves. It occurs to me we may be talking about two different concepts in our men-don’t-chat debate, especially as regards relationships. I think it matters to whom they’re speaking. Men don’t chat to WOMEN about relationships. They talk to each other plenty. Back in my Air Force days, I was the only woman in big group of men. If you’re defining ‘chat’ as casual conversation, believe me, they chat, and chat, and chat, even about relationships. They also discuss relationships more seriously amongst themselves.

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]]> By: junebug_indeed http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135294 junebug_indeed Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:31:48 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135294 Overall I really liked the scence. Ditto for me about the shoes. I was also a little confused about the fact that North's mom helps run the practice. In the earlier scene with Andie it sounded like North carried the weight of the family on his shoulders. Now I'm not so sure. I also agree with some of the other comments that suggest having Southie rib his brother more about the Andie aspect of his ghost trip. Maybe make Suze less of a girlfriend and more of a hookup he's trying to extend. And after saying all that I would like to assure you that in the long run if I hadn't read your blog I probably wouldn't have noticed anything. My academic reading is the only thing I seriously analyze. I read your books solely for my own personal enjoyment. :) Overall I really liked the scence. Ditto for me about the shoes. I was also a little confused about the fact that North’s mom helps run the practice. In the earlier scene with Andie it sounded like North carried the weight of the family on his shoulders. Now I’m not so sure. I also agree with some of the other comments that suggest having Southie rib his brother more about the Andie aspect of his ghost trip. Maybe make Suze less of a girlfriend and more of a hookup he’s trying to extend.

And after saying all that I would like to assure you that in the long run if I hadn’t read your blog I probably wouldn’t have noticed anything. My academic reading is the only thing I seriously analyze. I read your books solely for my own personal enjoyment. :)

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]]> By: SueG http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135288 SueG Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:58:41 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135288 I guess my use of "chatty in the extreme", turned men talking into chatting. I did not mean, aimless chatting about relationships. My point was not all men are silent and not all women are talkers; there are differences in the WAY men and women DO talk, but the conversations take place. I think North and Southie were having a normal conversation. I'm sure Southie has an agenda; Jenny wouldn't have written that section that way without him having one. I don't agree that North WANTS to be the head of the family; I think he has done it for so long, he doesn't know how NOT to be the head of the family. I don't know if I've made my point any clearer, but now you know why I read instead of write :o) I guess my use of “chatty in the extreme”, turned men talking into chatting. I did not mean, aimless chatting about relationships. My point was not all men are silent and not all women are talkers; there are differences in the WAY men and women DO talk, but the conversations take place. I think North and Southie were having a normal conversation. I’m sure Southie has an agenda; Jenny wouldn’t have written that section that way without him having one. I don’t agree that North WANTS to be the head of the family; I think he has done it for so long, he doesn’t know how NOT to be the head of the family.

I don’t know if I’ve made my point any clearer, but now you know why I read instead of write :o )

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]]> By: kate http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135275 kate Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:22:50 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135275 I agree completely--yours are some of the more believable men in romance. Really. I'd agree with you if they were poorly written. I agree completely–yours are some of the more believable men in romance. Really. I’d agree with you if they were poorly written.

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]]> By: Sharon http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135273 Sharon Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:14:05 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135273 I, too, am still having problems with the 10 year span-that's 120 envelopes in her purse !!. With his methodical mind I feel that he would have "checked her off his list" as a problem or a concern a long time ago. Ten years is too long for a man of his mind-set to carry a torch. Now her, being a romantic, I can see hoping to be back into his life. Some one "up the line" suggested 5 years which does sound better but I would even go for 3 years of lost time between them.Then we also have to ask ourselves how or if she knew these children that she has been hired to help. Finally, I like the dialog between the brothers-South just wants to help his older brother-take some of the work away, the worry away and see him happy-but North wants to be the head of the family, the leader and the one who is always RIGHT even if it hurts him. I, too, am still having problems with the 10 year span-that’s 120 envelopes in her purse !!. With his methodical mind I feel that he would have “checked her off his list” as a problem or a concern a long time ago. Ten years is too long for a man of his mind-set to carry a torch. Now her, being a romantic, I can see hoping to be back into his life. Some one “up the line” suggested 5 years which does sound better but I would even go for 3 years of lost time between them.Then we also have to ask ourselves how or if she knew these children that she has been hired to help. Finally, I like the dialog between the brothers-South just wants to help his older brother-take some of the work away, the worry away and see him happy-but North wants to be the head of the family, the leader and the one who is always RIGHT even if it hurts him.

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]]> By: Patricia Rice http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135247 Patricia Rice Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:43:23 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135247 That's it exactly! Most men don't chat aimlessly, they chat with a goal in mind. They're inherently problem-solvers. North thinks he's solved the problem with the children but now he's worrying if he hasn't opened up more problems, and Southie is essentially confirming that he has. (and I agree with Toni, you couldn't write a bad character if someone held a gun to your head) Solving someone else's dilemma is so much more fun than tackling my own pages... That’s it exactly! Most men don’t chat aimlessly, they chat with a goal in mind. They’re inherently problem-solvers. North thinks he’s solved the problem with the children but now he’s worrying if he hasn’t opened up more problems, and Southie is essentially confirming that he has. (and I agree with Toni, you couldn’t write a bad character if someone held a gun to your head)

Solving someone else’s dilemma is so much more fun than tackling my own pages…

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]]> By: Jen http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135245 Jen Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:33:20 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135245 Terri, I suppose you're right. I think maybe I'm looking for something that either shows that it's been a LONG ten years, or that the ten years have FLOWN by. I think in a situation like this, you're either dwelling on it (the divorce) or ignoring it, and I guess I don't get a feeling for either. It's as if the divorce was such a natural part of life, such a smooth transition, that neither character noticed it & life just rolled on, and now it's ten years later. Does this make any sense? Terri, I suppose you’re right. I think maybe I’m looking for something that either shows that it’s been a LONG ten years, or that the ten years have FLOWN by. I think in a situation like this, you’re either dwelling on it (the divorce) or ignoring it, and I guess I don’t get a feeling for either. It’s as if the divorce was such a natural part of life, such a smooth transition, that neither character noticed it & life just rolled on, and now it’s ten years later. Does this make any sense?

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]]> By: Jen http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135244 Jen Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:21:36 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135244 Kate, I think I understand. Maybe not so much on the 'feelings should be gone' part, but something about the 10-years-and-nothing's-changed just doesn't quite sit right. North notices that she's wearing her hair differently - maybe play this up a little so the time lapse is more obvious - so it really does feel like 10 years have gone by? I'm not sure. Kate, I think I understand. Maybe not so much on the ‘feelings should be gone’ part, but something about the 10-years-and-nothing’s-changed just doesn’t quite sit right. North notices that she’s wearing her hair differently – maybe play this up a little so the time lapse is more obvious – so it really does feel like 10 years have gone by? I’m not sure.

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]]> By: Kit DeClaire http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135237 Kit DeClaire Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:45:43 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135237 I'm a beginning writer and I have the same problem.Especially since I have little experience in the field of...er...romance. Its hard to write a great sex scene when you're a virgin. I’m a beginning writer and I have the same problem.Especially since I have little experience in the field of…er…romance. Its hard to write a great sex scene when you’re a virgin.

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]]> By: Thea http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135222 Thea Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:36:10 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135222 Another thing -- Southie's not chatting about Andie. He's not chatting at all. He has an agenda, that gets handled. Then he talks about North, talks about Andie, talks about Andie and North. You're right, most men don't chat. Known some who do, given the situation. But what Southie is doing in this scene isn't chatting, and North is too busy handling to chat. Another thing — Southie’s not chatting about Andie. He’s not chatting at all. He has an agenda, that gets handled. Then he talks about North, talks about Andie, talks about Andie and North.

You’re right, most men don’t chat. Known some who do, given the situation. But what Southie is doing in this scene isn’t chatting, and North is too busy handling to chat.

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]]> By: Thea http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135221 Thea Mon, 26 Oct 2009 04:30:07 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135221 Given what you show of Southie, he'd chat about this relationship. He likes Andie, likes North being with Andie. And he's Southie. He'd chat. Given what you show of Southie, he’d chat about this relationship. He likes Andie, likes North being with Andie. And he’s Southie. He’d chat.

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]]> By: Kelly http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135215 Kelly Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:29:30 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135215 btw, I don't think your books improved by adding Bob. Although, I do love Agnes! btw, I don’t think your books improved by adding Bob. Although, I do love Agnes!

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]]> By: Kelly http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135213 Kelly Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:25:09 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135213 I don't ask my husband what he's thinking about after being together during a long silence, I ask him if he is thinking about something. The answer is usually, nope. During that same time, I've planned dinner, figured out the schedule for the rest of the week, identified an upcoming birthday/holiday or something, came up with a cure for cancer or world peace, well, not the last one, but you get the idea. I don’t ask my husband what he’s thinking about after being together during a long silence, I ask him if he is thinking about something. The answer is usually, nope. During that same time, I’ve planned dinner, figured out the schedule for the rest of the week, identified an upcoming birthday/holiday or something, came up with a cure for cancer or world peace, well, not the last one, but you get the idea.

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]]> By: Marta http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135211 Marta Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:07:04 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135211 Definitely William Holden. Such a great movie, and a change of pace for Bogart. Definitely William Holden. Such a great movie, and a change of pace for Bogart.

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]]> By: Hannah Dymond http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135201 Hannah Dymond Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:02:12 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135201 I really enjoyed this scene and felt the dialogue provided heaps of the background info needed. I have to say though that the mention of blow jobs in the first section and then again in this chapter doesn't fit the tone for me. Will they be part of the actual sex scenes later on? I've only read a few Crusie novels so am not sure how explicit she gets (enjoyed what I've read so far!!) If they don't appear later, then why mention them at all? I really enjoyed this scene and felt the dialogue provided heaps of the background info needed. I have to say though that the mention of blow jobs in the first section and then again in this chapter doesn’t fit the tone for me. Will they be part of the actual sex scenes later on? I’ve only read a few Crusie novels so am not sure how explicit she gets (enjoyed what I’ve read so far!!) If they don’t appear later, then why mention them at all?

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]]> By: Savvy2 http://www.arghink.com/2009/10/22/north-vs-south/#comment-135197 Savvy2 Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:13:43 +0000 http://www.arghink.com/?p=1887#comment-135197 Sorry. I must've hit paste twice! Sorry. I must’ve hit paste twice!

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