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	<title>Comments on: Three Black Swans</title>
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	<description>More than you ever wanted to hear from Bestselling Author Jenny Crusie.</description>
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		<title>By: CrankyOtter</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107464</link>
		<dc:creator>CrankyOtter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107464</guid>
		<description>oh, and &quot;illows&quot; are &quot;pillows&quot;.  They are strangely sized in Italy.  My friend had really old hand-me-down pillows when I visited.  I went all Davy and bought new ones for her guest room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, and &#8220;illows&#8221; are &#8220;pillows&#8221;.  They are strangely sized in Italy.  My friend had really old hand-me-down pillows when I visited.  I went all Davy and bought new ones for her guest room.</p>
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		<title>By: CrankyOtter</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107463</link>
		<dc:creator>CrankyOtter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107463</guid>
		<description>I have no idea if you&#039;re coming back to read this or not.  But I printed out the comments and read them over lunch.  More and more I&#039;m convinced that the Black Swan is the world building event to _set_the_stage_, not something that escalates in and of itself.  Yes, the demons can get bigger and badder and pinker or bluer, but they&#039;re still demons.  More than one Black Swan is Double Mumbo Jumbo.  I strenuously agree that Double Mumbo Jumbo is bad news.  Stick with one giant revelation.  Three are not necessary.

Readers go into a paranormal/fantasy book expecting the worldview to be slightly off from the norm.  That&#039;s why we bought the book.  Finding out Demons exist in chapter 1 might rock the Heroine&#039;s world, but it&#039;s ho-hum for us.  The esclation is with normal turning points.  Ok, worldview shifted, now what?  Which old rules still apply, which don&#039;t?  How do I fit?

Speaking of which,  suddenly finding out you&#039;re X or not X is just a regular, plain &#039;ol turning point.  Happens in just about every book.  Unless you find out you&#039;re a lizard - BEFORE you find out lizard people exist - it&#039;s not a Black Swan.  But the &quot;Black Swan&quot; is that the lizard people exist, not whether or not you are one. Or vice versa.  In this case, it&#039;s only an academic exercise as to which of the two is the Black Swan since they both result in a worldview shift accepting Lizard People as real combined with your being one of them.  Substitute Wizard and you have the Harry Potter kickoff.  Everything he did subsequently was just turning points.  Black Swan was foundation on which turning points rested.

For rambling kicks:  One of my worldview shifts was shopping for housewares abroad.  Turns out they don&#039;t sell illows in American sizes in Italy.   It&#039;s made me look at everything and wonder why it&#039;s the size it is - and it&#039;s usually because it&#039;s so common changing it would be harder than putting up with the less good thing. Like Qwerty keyboards - designed to make typing slow, yet millions of people use them inefficiently every day, wasting millions of hours because learning to type Dvorak would temporarily inconvenience us for 5-10 years while everything shifted and people had to know both instead of just one system.

As to double mumbo jumbo being bad:
And I gave up on Sherrilyn Kenyon many books ago for three primary reasons - violating worldbuilding rules she set herself, Double Mumbo Jumbo, and the concept that something is inherently evil. 

(Sorry, this turned into a rant.  But I can&#039;t help myself.)
SK does world building then constantly makes exceptions after carefully saying that exception isn&#039;t possible.  Not a black swan, just careless worldbuilding or imprecise language.  &quot;His cougar nature had absolute control that his human half couldn&#039;t overcome&quot; followed 1 page later by &quot;his human half was fighting his cougar nature and winning&quot;.  Don&#039;t give me a rule if it&#039;s worthless.  Say it&#039;s hard then show that it&#039;s hard, but don&#039;t announce its impossibility then go do it.  That&#039;s just dumb.   

Another is that she has the magic AND the time travel = DMJ.  The books I read never needed the time travel aspect and she uses it poorly and it mucks with the magic worldbuilding and makes a mockery of what we know.  I don&#039;t care how outlandish your world is, but as a READER, I need to understand what the rules are insofar as they are known.  Don&#039;t toss in, &quot;oh, by the way there&#039;s time travel too&quot; and then proceed to use it badly.  It just makes me think she&#039;s careless.

Lastly, the &quot;good guys&quot; fight the &quot;Daemons&quot; who are &quot;all evil&quot; because they eat humans.  They aren&#039;t evil, they&#039;re just higher on the food chain.  I&#039;ve gotten to the point where I have no patience for the idea that one type of being should not be allowed to exist so other beings should kill them off.  It makes sense to have guardians against your predators.  It does not make your predators evil that must be exterminated.  

So, sorry for the SK rant.  I was hoping there would be something there that would be useful with regard to rules for paranormal things from a reader POV.  But Black Swan - only one needed for a whole series.  Consider it worldbuilding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea if you&#8217;re coming back to read this or not.  But I printed out the comments and read them over lunch.  More and more I&#8217;m convinced that the Black Swan is the world building event to _set_the_stage_, not something that escalates in and of itself.  Yes, the demons can get bigger and badder and pinker or bluer, but they&#8217;re still demons.  More than one Black Swan is Double Mumbo Jumbo.  I strenuously agree that Double Mumbo Jumbo is bad news.  Stick with one giant revelation.  Three are not necessary.</p>
<p>Readers go into a paranormal/fantasy book expecting the worldview to be slightly off from the norm.  That&#8217;s why we bought the book.  Finding out Demons exist in chapter 1 might rock the Heroine&#8217;s world, but it&#8217;s ho-hum for us.  The esclation is with normal turning points.  Ok, worldview shifted, now what?  Which old rules still apply, which don&#8217;t?  How do I fit?</p>
<p>Speaking of which,  suddenly finding out you&#8217;re X or not X is just a regular, plain &#8216;ol turning point.  Happens in just about every book.  Unless you find out you&#8217;re a lizard &#8211; BEFORE you find out lizard people exist &#8211; it&#8217;s not a Black Swan.  But the &#8220;Black Swan&#8221; is that the lizard people exist, not whether or not you are one. Or vice versa.  In this case, it&#8217;s only an academic exercise as to which of the two is the Black Swan since they both result in a worldview shift accepting Lizard People as real combined with your being one of them.  Substitute Wizard and you have the Harry Potter kickoff.  Everything he did subsequently was just turning points.  Black Swan was foundation on which turning points rested.</p>
<p>For rambling kicks:  One of my worldview shifts was shopping for housewares abroad.  Turns out they don&#8217;t sell illows in American sizes in Italy.   It&#8217;s made me look at everything and wonder why it&#8217;s the size it is &#8211; and it&#8217;s usually because it&#8217;s so common changing it would be harder than putting up with the less good thing. Like Qwerty keyboards &#8211; designed to make typing slow, yet millions of people use them inefficiently every day, wasting millions of hours because learning to type Dvorak would temporarily inconvenience us for 5-10 years while everything shifted and people had to know both instead of just one system.</p>
<p>As to double mumbo jumbo being bad:<br />
And I gave up on Sherrilyn Kenyon many books ago for three primary reasons &#8211; violating worldbuilding rules she set herself, Double Mumbo Jumbo, and the concept that something is inherently evil. </p>
<p>(Sorry, this turned into a rant.  But I can&#8217;t help myself.)<br />
SK does world building then constantly makes exceptions after carefully saying that exception isn&#8217;t possible.  Not a black swan, just careless worldbuilding or imprecise language.  &#8220;His cougar nature had absolute control that his human half couldn&#8217;t overcome&#8221; followed 1 page later by &#8220;his human half was fighting his cougar nature and winning&#8221;.  Don&#8217;t give me a rule if it&#8217;s worthless.  Say it&#8217;s hard then show that it&#8217;s hard, but don&#8217;t announce its impossibility then go do it.  That&#8217;s just dumb.   </p>
<p>Another is that she has the magic AND the time travel = DMJ.  The books I read never needed the time travel aspect and she uses it poorly and it mucks with the magic worldbuilding and makes a mockery of what we know.  I don&#8217;t care how outlandish your world is, but as a READER, I need to understand what the rules are insofar as they are known.  Don&#8217;t toss in, &#8220;oh, by the way there&#8217;s time travel too&#8221; and then proceed to use it badly.  It just makes me think she&#8217;s careless.</p>
<p>Lastly, the &#8220;good guys&#8221; fight the &#8220;Daemons&#8221; who are &#8220;all evil&#8221; because they eat humans.  They aren&#8217;t evil, they&#8217;re just higher on the food chain.  I&#8217;ve gotten to the point where I have no patience for the idea that one type of being should not be allowed to exist so other beings should kill them off.  It makes sense to have guardians against your predators.  It does not make your predators evil that must be exterminated.  </p>
<p>So, sorry for the SK rant.  I was hoping there would be something there that would be useful with regard to rules for paranormal things from a reader POV.  But Black Swan &#8211; only one needed for a whole series.  Consider it worldbuilding.</p>
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		<title>By: CrankyOtter</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107460</link>
		<dc:creator>CrankyOtter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107460</guid>
		<description>I like the black swan idea.   No, all turning points are not worldview changes.  But in romances, there&#039;s often a point where someone accepts that love and relationship are good whereas before they were bad.  It can be a major or minor worldview shift depending on the characters&#039; backgrounds.  

I don&#039;t think you need escalating worldview shifts though.  Think of this &quot;demons exist&quot; black swan as the kick off to the story.  If this worldview shift didn&#039;t happen, the story couldn&#039;t happen.  The whole &quot;demons don&#039;t exist despite all evidence&quot; mindset hanging on until page 333 would not be fun to read, so better to have it early and done with.  I think the point of having it early is to establish with the READER the worldview.  It might be monumental for the heroine, but it&#039;s background for the reader so we can set up what we will and won&#039;t accept from the story based on these new rules.   I don&#039;t think subsequent conflicts that don&#039;t muck up the heroines worldview will be anti-climactic because of it, they just get placed in context because of it.  Like when Harry Potter learns he&#039;s a wizard, suddenly things make sense.  Once he&#039;s accepted the wizard thing, the story can take place.   

If you do have subsequent black swans, perhaps they should also shift the reader&#039;s world view as well.

Now to go read the other 75 comments.  Yikes!  I check every day for weeks and almost no new updates.  I miss a week and you&#039;ve blogged continuously.  It figures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the black swan idea.   No, all turning points are not worldview changes.  But in romances, there&#8217;s often a point where someone accepts that love and relationship are good whereas before they were bad.  It can be a major or minor worldview shift depending on the characters&#8217; backgrounds.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you need escalating worldview shifts though.  Think of this &#8220;demons exist&#8221; black swan as the kick off to the story.  If this worldview shift didn&#8217;t happen, the story couldn&#8217;t happen.  The whole &#8220;demons don&#8217;t exist despite all evidence&#8221; mindset hanging on until page 333 would not be fun to read, so better to have it early and done with.  I think the point of having it early is to establish with the READER the worldview.  It might be monumental for the heroine, but it&#8217;s background for the reader so we can set up what we will and won&#8217;t accept from the story based on these new rules.   I don&#8217;t think subsequent conflicts that don&#8217;t muck up the heroines worldview will be anti-climactic because of it, they just get placed in context because of it.  Like when Harry Potter learns he&#8217;s a wizard, suddenly things make sense.  Once he&#8217;s accepted the wizard thing, the story can take place.   </p>
<p>If you do have subsequent black swans, perhaps they should also shift the reader&#8217;s world view as well.</p>
<p>Now to go read the other 75 comments.  Yikes!  I check every day for weeks and almost no new updates.  I miss a week and you&#8217;ve blogged continuously.  It figures.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107155</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107155</guid>
		<description>The demons aren&#039;t the protagonists.  They&#039;re the antagonists, which as we all know doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;re bad, it just means they&#039;re thwarting the protagonists.
The protagonists are my poor bedeviled Mab and--wait for it--a former Green Beret who has come home to the park to work security there.  They are not going to find love with each other.  And if you think that hasn&#039;t been a bitch, making sure there are no cues to the reader so she&#039;ll jump to that obvious confusion, then you&#039;ve never done a romance novel with a male and female protagonist who don&#039;t have a love story.  I&#039;ve resorted to having the fortunetelling machine spit out a card for Mab that says, &quot;Not him.&quot;

The demons definitely have issues, some more than most.  None of them turn out to be good guys.  The best of them is more along the lines of Spike with a much lower body count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The demons aren&#8217;t the protagonists.  They&#8217;re the antagonists, which as we all know doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;re bad, it just means they&#8217;re thwarting the protagonists.<br />
The protagonists are my poor bedeviled Mab and&#8211;wait for it&#8211;a former Green Beret who has come home to the park to work security there.  They are not going to find love with each other.  And if you think that hasn&#8217;t been a bitch, making sure there are no cues to the reader so she&#8217;ll jump to that obvious confusion, then you&#8217;ve never done a romance novel with a male and female protagonist who don&#8217;t have a love story.  I&#8217;ve resorted to having the fortunetelling machine spit out a card for Mab that says, &#8220;Not him.&#8221;</p>
<p>The demons definitely have issues, some more than most.  None of them turn out to be good guys.  The best of them is more along the lines of Spike with a much lower body count.</p>
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		<title>By: Strop</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107154</link>
		<dc:creator>Strop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107154</guid>
		<description>In that case, if the protags have to save themselves I would like it to be made plainer that they are in fact the force for good. I feel there is a preponderance of sexy demons and undead types in lots of fiction, and they can almost become seductive, in a sort of &#039;making people forget they do bad because they are so glamorous&#039; kind of way. What&#039;s the reward for being the good one? Is it all endless slog keeping on being good?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that case, if the protags have to save themselves I would like it to be made plainer that they are in fact the force for good. I feel there is a preponderance of sexy demons and undead types in lots of fiction, and they can almost become seductive, in a sort of &#8216;making people forget they do bad because they are so glamorous&#8217; kind of way. What&#8217;s the reward for being the good one? Is it all endless slog keeping on being good?</p>
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		<title>By: Marta</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107150</link>
		<dc:creator>Marta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 18:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107150</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible my negative viewpoint of Wuthering Heights was influenced by having to spend about HALF A SEMESTER on reading and dissecting it back in tenth grade.  Or not.

The truth is, my ability to endure endless gloom and doom and angst is very limited.  It&#039;s depressing.  I remember wishing young Cathy would start dressing up as the ghost, maybe encourage Heathcliff to walk off the roof or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible my negative viewpoint of Wuthering Heights was influenced by having to spend about HALF A SEMESTER on reading and dissecting it back in tenth grade.  Or not.</p>
<p>The truth is, my ability to endure endless gloom and doom and angst is very limited.  It&#8217;s depressing.  I remember wishing young Cathy would start dressing up as the ghost, maybe encourage Heathcliff to walk off the roof or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107126</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 04:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107126</guid>
		<description>The second Catherine kicks some butt.  
I always saw that as a parallel book structure.  The first Cathy has everything and screws it all up.  The second Cathy has nothing and fights until she has everything.  She revises her mother&#039;s life.
I love that book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The second Catherine kicks some butt.<br />
I always saw that as a parallel book structure.  The first Cathy has everything and screws it all up.  The second Cathy has nothing and fights until she has everything.  She revises her mother&#8217;s life.<br />
I love that book.</p>
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		<title>By: Marta</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107125</link>
		<dc:creator>Marta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 03:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107125</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Becky, too.  One of the definitions of protagonist is champion.  They absolutely need to save themselves.  That&#039;s why I maintain there are no protagonists in Wuthering Heights.  Those characters just whine, and whine, and whine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Becky, too.  One of the definitions of protagonist is champion.  They absolutely need to save themselves.  That&#8217;s why I maintain there are no protagonists in Wuthering Heights.  Those characters just whine, and whine, and whine.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107118</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107118</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Becky.  Protagonists have to save themselves, not rely on outsiders swooping in.  
Good example of that is Good Omens by Gaiman and Pratchett.  Angels and demons all over the place, but the kid makes the call.   As I remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Becky.  Protagonists have to save themselves, not rely on outsiders swooping in.<br />
Good example of that is Good Omens by Gaiman and Pratchett.  Angels and demons all over the place, but the kid makes the call.   As I remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Becky</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107101</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107101</guid>
		<description>Or, continuing that thought, the angels are focused on the demons and willing to sacrifice human casualties.  That could put Mab &amp; Co. in conflict with both sides when they fight to save their loved ones?

So I guess the turning point would be: Mab discovers the angels aren&#039;t as good as she thought they were, and they have to save themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, continuing that thought, the angels are focused on the demons and willing to sacrifice human casualties.  That could put Mab &amp; Co. in conflict with both sides when they fight to save their loved ones?</p>
<p>So I guess the turning point would be: Mab discovers the angels aren&#8217;t as good as she thought they were, and they have to save themselves.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-107101" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('107101', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-107101-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Becky</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107100</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107100</guid>
		<description>Could humans, as screwed up as we sometimes are, be the great good in the universe?  Maybe it&#039;s all the YA I&#039;ve been reading lately, but I&#039;m more excited about stories where the main characters are able to defeat the enemy instead of being saved by a greater force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could humans, as screwed up as we sometimes are, be the great good in the universe?  Maybe it&#8217;s all the YA I&#8217;ve been reading lately, but I&#8217;m more excited about stories where the main characters are able to defeat the enemy instead of being saved by a greater force.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-107100" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('107100', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-107100-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Strop</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-107002</link>
		<dc:creator>Strop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-107002</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still hanging on to the idea of a big good to balance the big bad. Could the black swans be:
1. Mab realises demons are real and the world is bigger and badder than she could possibly have imagined.
2. Mab finds out she is something other than she believed.
3. Mab discovers angels (or whatever you like to call them) are real and the world is bigger and gooder than she could possibly have imagined.

I suspect 2 and 3 could change places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still hanging on to the idea of a big good to balance the big bad. Could the black swans be:<br />
1. Mab realises demons are real and the world is bigger and badder than she could possibly have imagined.<br />
2. Mab finds out she is something other than she believed.<br />
3. Mab discovers angels (or whatever you like to call them) are real and the world is bigger and gooder than she could possibly have imagined.</p>
<p>I suspect 2 and 3 could change places.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-107002" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('107002', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-107002-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marta</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106837</link>
		<dc:creator>Marta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106837</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re welcome, Jenny.  Anything to expedite Mab. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re welcome, Jenny.  Anything to expedite Mab. <img src='http://www.arghink.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106837" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106837', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106837-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106783</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106783</guid>
		<description>Ooooh.   Oooooh.   You just gave me an idea, Marta.
And those suckers are getting fewer and farther between these days, so thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooooh.   Oooooh.   You just gave me an idea, Marta.<br />
And those suckers are getting fewer and farther between these days, so thank you!</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106783" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106783', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106783-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marta</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106741</link>
		<dc:creator>Marta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106741</guid>
		<description>I keep thinking about Men In Black, how important it was for the general populace to be kept ignorant of their relatively small footprint in the larger universe in order to prevent a global war-of-the-worlds hysteria.  

Everyone has a comfort zone, and the majority of us (IMHO) feel some panic when asked or forced out of it.  But some people, no matter how great their initial degree of panic over leaving the &#039;zone&#039;, they thrive.  They come into their own.  But, how do you find those people?

For Will Smith in MIB, there was the entertaining scene with the egg-shaped chairs and the other applicants.  He was identified as one who would thrive because he sized up the situation, and dragged his chair over to a table (or vice-versa?).

Could it be that Mab&#039;s transformation is along those lines?  Finding that ability to thrive far outside her comfort zone?  Not just being able to overcome whatever&#039;s thrown at her, but finding her ability to thrive on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep thinking about Men In Black, how important it was for the general populace to be kept ignorant of their relatively small footprint in the larger universe in order to prevent a global war-of-the-worlds hysteria.  </p>
<p>Everyone has a comfort zone, and the majority of us (IMHO) feel some panic when asked or forced out of it.  But some people, no matter how great their initial degree of panic over leaving the &#8216;zone&#8217;, they thrive.  They come into their own.  But, how do you find those people?</p>
<p>For Will Smith in MIB, there was the entertaining scene with the egg-shaped chairs and the other applicants.  He was identified as one who would thrive because he sized up the situation, and dragged his chair over to a table (or vice-versa?).</p>
<p>Could it be that Mab&#8217;s transformation is along those lines?  Finding that ability to thrive far outside her comfort zone?  Not just being able to overcome whatever&#8217;s thrown at her, but finding her ability to thrive on it.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106741" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106741', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106741-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106712</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106712</guid>
		<description>This is excellent stuff.
I&#039;m reading all of it and cogitating while I keep writing the book which is taking shape in a different way now.  That is, Mab&#039;s first TP isn&#039;t that demon&#039;s exist (although that&#039;s Ethan&#039;s TP which happens at the same time.   It&#039;s a lot fuzzier but its a transformation which I think may be what the book is about for Mab.  

I know, that&#039;s NO help.  But the theories you&#039;re all offering are terrific, so I&#039;m following along and trying to synthesize.   Thank you so much and keep up the good work, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is excellent stuff.<br />
I&#8217;m reading all of it and cogitating while I keep writing the book which is taking shape in a different way now.  That is, Mab&#8217;s first TP isn&#8217;t that demon&#8217;s exist (although that&#8217;s Ethan&#8217;s TP which happens at the same time.   It&#8217;s a lot fuzzier but its a transformation which I think may be what the book is about for Mab.  </p>
<p>I know, that&#8217;s NO help.  But the theories you&#8217;re all offering are terrific, so I&#8217;m following along and trying to synthesize.   Thank you so much and keep up the good work, please.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106712" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106712', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106712-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anette. the Great Dane</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106456</link>
		<dc:creator>Anette. the Great Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106456</guid>
		<description>My suggestions for 3. BS TP would be either:

3. She thought she knew what she wanted (that could be regarding relationships and building on her previous life)

or

3. She thought what she did would have limited impact (that could be regarding her two first BS TP)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My suggestions for 3. BS TP would be either:</p>
<p>3. She thought she knew what she wanted (that could be regarding relationships and building on her previous life)</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>3. She thought what she did would have limited impact (that could be regarding her two first BS TP)</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106456" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106456', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106456-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Shoshana</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106308</link>
		<dc:creator>Shoshana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106308</guid>
		<description>Fascinating comments and concepts.
What about finding out that
1) hey black swans exist, who knew?
2) the discoverer (protagonist) isn&#039;t what she always thought she was
3) wow look at that, the black bit of the black swans is just summer plumage when they migrate south. There really isn&#039;t such a thing as a black swan, anymore than there is a white swan. There are only swans, white in the winter and black in the summer.
(yes I know that&#039;s not the case, it&#039;s just an example)

Which boils down to,
A) the world is different
B) *YOU* are different
C) the &#039;different&#039; world and the &#039;old&#039; world are really one and the same, and reconciled.

Like when they discovered that &#039;new&#039; species of fish, and turns out, hey, actually? That&#039;s just an early form of the common eel. Wow, solves the mystery of how come you never saw a baby eel. You saw them all the time, just didn&#039;t call them by the right name.
Meh. Not being a writer, someone out there has no doubt said it better. I&#039;ll go look for them now. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating comments and concepts.<br />
What about finding out that<br />
1) hey black swans exist, who knew?<br />
2) the discoverer (protagonist) isn&#8217;t what she always thought she was<br />
3) wow look at that, the black bit of the black swans is just summer plumage when they migrate south. There really isn&#8217;t such a thing as a black swan, anymore than there is a white swan. There are only swans, white in the winter and black in the summer.<br />
(yes I know that&#8217;s not the case, it&#8217;s just an example)</p>
<p>Which boils down to,<br />
A) the world is different<br />
B) *YOU* are different<br />
C) the &#8216;different&#8217; world and the &#8216;old&#8217; world are really one and the same, and reconciled.</p>
<p>Like when they discovered that &#8216;new&#8217; species of fish, and turns out, hey, actually? That&#8217;s just an early form of the common eel. Wow, solves the mystery of how come you never saw a baby eel. You saw them all the time, just didn&#8217;t call them by the right name.<br />
Meh. Not being a writer, someone out there has no doubt said it better. I&#8217;ll go look for them now. <img src='http://www.arghink.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106308" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106308', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106308-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marta</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106305</link>
		<dc:creator>Marta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106305</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been chewing on this, and I think I&#039;ve talked myself out of the three black swans if I&#039;m understanding the term correctly.

Mab&#039;s first two TPs are definite paradigm shifts, and so is the third TP by the sound of it.

The first TP is also a black swan, as the difference between a black swan TP and a paradigm shift TP is that the first requires a reality based on the non-existence of something, in this case demons.

The second TP, however, is only a paradigm shift because Mab has already left the reality in which demons don&#039;t exist.  Without knowing precisely what Jenny has Mab realize about herself, I don&#039;t think it changes a reality based on non-existence.  Is any of this making sense?

For instance, if Mab discovered a pink demon, she would realize demons exist.  She wouldn&#039;t realize pink demons exist, but remain steadfast in her belief that blue demons and purple demons don&#039;t exist.  And, I don&#039;t know about y&#039;all, but if I find out demons exist, any solid doubts I have about ghosts, witches, and leprechauns are history.

So, while there&#039;s definitely a paradigm shift on the second TP,  I don&#039;t see a black swan.  Does that mean the third TP can&#039;t be a black swan?  No.  But, it has to start at a reality based on the non-existence of something.

On the flip side, if Jenny&#039;s turning points are black swans, I&#039;m all for them appearing in the story.  Maybe there&#039;s a pond at the amusement park, and after each revelation, a new black swan flies in.  Or maybe the carousel has swan boats, and they turn black one by one.  But those damn swans have messed with my head all day, so they should be acknowledged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been chewing on this, and I think I&#8217;ve talked myself out of the three black swans if I&#8217;m understanding the term correctly.</p>
<p>Mab&#8217;s first two TPs are definite paradigm shifts, and so is the third TP by the sound of it.</p>
<p>The first TP is also a black swan, as the difference between a black swan TP and a paradigm shift TP is that the first requires a reality based on the non-existence of something, in this case demons.</p>
<p>The second TP, however, is only a paradigm shift because Mab has already left the reality in which demons don&#8217;t exist.  Without knowing precisely what Jenny has Mab realize about herself, I don&#8217;t think it changes a reality based on non-existence.  Is any of this making sense?</p>
<p>For instance, if Mab discovered a pink demon, she would realize demons exist.  She wouldn&#8217;t realize pink demons exist, but remain steadfast in her belief that blue demons and purple demons don&#8217;t exist.  And, I don&#8217;t know about y&#8217;all, but if I find out demons exist, any solid doubts I have about ghosts, witches, and leprechauns are history.</p>
<p>So, while there&#8217;s definitely a paradigm shift on the second TP,  I don&#8217;t see a black swan.  Does that mean the third TP can&#8217;t be a black swan?  No.  But, it has to start at a reality based on the non-existence of something.</p>
<p>On the flip side, if Jenny&#8217;s turning points are black swans, I&#8217;m all for them appearing in the story.  Maybe there&#8217;s a pond at the amusement park, and after each revelation, a new black swan flies in.  Or maybe the carousel has swan boats, and they turn black one by one.  But those damn swans have messed with my head all day, so they should be acknowledged.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106305" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106305', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106305-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JulieB</title>
		<link>http://www.arghink.com/2008/12/01/three-black-swans/#comment-106175</link>
		<dc:creator>JulieB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arghink.com/?p=734#comment-106175</guid>
		<description>I guess I am on the fence, because I keep agreeing with everyone. :) But I think Micki has a really valid point too. Mybe there really is only one Black Swan. That doesn&#039;t mean there isn&#039;t a lot to do or enough to learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I am on the fence, because I keep agreeing with everyone. <img src='http://www.arghink.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But I think Micki has a really valid point too. Mybe there really is only one Black Swan. That doesn&#8217;t mean there isn&#8217;t a lot to do or enough to learn.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-106175" src="http://www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/2_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('106175', 'add', 'www.arghink.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '2_14_');" title="I love this comment!" /> <span id="karma-106175-up" style="font-size:13px;color:#666;;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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