And here’s Val Frankel . . .
Oct82008
First of all, it’s wonderful to read such supportive discussion about the multitude of issues around weight! We can thank Jenny for that. So many topics have come up, and I want to put in my two cents on the ones that resonated for me.
1. Re: the lasting negative residue of comments about fat from mothers. It took me thirty years to extricate from my mind my mother’s obsession with my weight. She learned to shut up about it when I became an independent adult, but I can tell she still watches my intake at holiday dinners, for example, even though I am 43 and a mother of two. It’s a habit that she is unable and unwilling to break. I had to forcibly break her fixation’s hold on me by confronting her about it, which I did as part of the process of dealing with my body image issues for Thin Is the New Happy. In confronting Mom, I realized a few important things.
(1) I couldn’t have done it until I’d reached my current level of maturity. Her obsession with my weight started when I was eleven. When my older daughter reached that age, I realized how young and vulnerable I was when the harassment began. I was simply unable to defend myself emotionally until I’d been tested and humbled by life. I gained perspective, and strength, and I could face her only now. You have to be ready to do it.
(2) Mom made her obsession my problem, which was unfair and wrong. I couldn’t change her attitude (nor is she inclined to do it herself). Nor could I completely forgive her. But I could pity her for her limitations. That sounds harsh, but it worked. By seeing her as pathetic (in her fatphobia), I regained a lot of my own power.
(3) At the end of the day, my body image is my responsibility. Mom got her claws in pretty deep, but it was up to me to pry them out. If I didn’t, no one else would. The way to do that, unfortunately, was to replay the ugly memories, write them down, purge them from the mind, and to tell others about them. My husband, even after four years of marriage, didn’t know what my mother had done. I was ashamed to tell him. Until I did, and then I felt better.
2. Re: being upset about the number on the scale. One woman commented that she felt fine about her body, until she weighed herself. As part of my body image project, I got rid of my scale. Scales are hateful and destructive. The number means nothing. We all have different bodies. Two women of the same height and weight could look completely different depending on their frame, muscle mass, genetic body shape. I have size ten feet, man hands and very thick wrists. I am, yes, BIG BONED. A small framed woman would look HUGE at my weight, whatever it is, I have no bloody idea. The numbers on dresses and pants also messes with the head. As my friend Stacy London of What Not to Wear told me when she cleaned out my closet, “forget about size.” Use it only as a baseline for shopping. A size 10 dress at one place is a 6 at another. The number is meaningless—unless you use it to define your self-worth. The only number worth paying attention to is the total of negative body image thoughts we have each day. I recommend buying a clicker at a sports supply store, and counting each time you have a self-critical thought about your weight, size, shape in a day. When I did this, I have over 200! A negative through every 3.5 minutes! Once I had a tally, I worked to redirect my thoughts, and lower my number. The affect on my mindset was pretty dramatic. After a few weeks, my outlook got brighter, lighter-yet-deeper. I became less obsessive and self-absorbed, and therefore a nicer person, better mother, wife and friend.
3. Re: not complaining about your weight in front of your daughters. This was my motivation for writing Thin Is the New Happy. I wanted to be a better role model about comfort in my skin for my two daughters. Study after study proves that mothers who diet teach their kids that self-loathing is an acceptable way of life. Some of you said you were careful around your kids, but the girls still thought of themselves as fat. Well, it takes a lot of hammering to drive home the point. I tell my daughters EVERY DAY, several times a day, that they are beautiful and that fitness is next to happiness. We take long walks every weekend, often over the Brooklyn Bridge into Manhattan to have adventures at the South Street Seaport or Chinatown. They understand that dim sum means a walk over the bridge first. Culture, peer pressure and the media will try, but they won’t undo the repeated messages parents give their kids. As we all know, our mothers voices are deep inside our heads. We can install positive attitudes in our kids’ heads, too, through repetition and consistent role modeling over the course of years.
4. Re: the negative voice that says “you’re fat,” even when you’re not. One woman talked about how she saw photos of herself during a time she thought she was fat, but now realizes she was thin then. I am often shocked when looking at old pictures, especially of my teen years when I was harassed by my mom, and then tormented by sadistic boys in junior high about being fat, only to see that I just wasn’t that heavy. It’s heartbreaking, how much time I wasted believing I was fat, when I wasn’t. To address this problem, I recommend doing what I did in Thin Is the New Happy—posing nude for a professional photographer. Seeing my body through the artist’s eye helped me expand my definition of beauty. After all, so many artists see beauty in voluptuous women. Why shouldn’t I see that beauty in myself, as an object of art? Well, I did. And now I have gorgeous photos of myself—nekkid—to use as rebuttal evidence whenever my mind slips and I think “you’re fat.”
5. Re: weight is a convenient distraction from life’s real problems. This revelation was a real eye-opener for me. To the woman who said her life was stable, but she still obsessed about weight, you might not be using weight as a distraction from problems. But, as another woman commented, you are thinking about weight instead of writing a novel or running a marathon, or whatever. A weight obsession, if it’s not a distraction, is a way to fill a void. I’d say, fill it with something else, something positive. “Your life’s work” was the wonderful phrase someone used. I totally agree.
6. Re: how to get rid of the “mother message.” See above. I think you have to have a confrontation with mommy dearest, honestly. Even if your mother is dead (sorry to be blunt), you can still have the confrontation as you imagine it would have been. The resolution is irrelevant. It’s important to state your case, to express yourself, even if you’re talking to a brick wall (which is my mother’s middle name).
7. Re: appearance-related first impressions and society’s unfair judgment over overweight people. My book is about the biased impressions we have of ourselves, the internal judgments we make of ourselves. We are our own unfair discriminators, our own critical observers. It’s entirely possible to be an average weight, and just as hard on yourself about your size as cruel people are to the obese. Body image is a personal problem, spurred on by societal standards, true. But at the end of the day, it’s all about you and how you feel about yourself, not what strangers might think.
8. Re: magazines. Since I earn a healthy percentage of my income writing for magazines, I have to defend them. Or, at least one. Self magazine, every month, serves up a positive, healthy and inspiring editorial message. Self published my nude photos, BTW, and that goes a long way to proving it is not presenting only super slim women on their pages. I’ve written at least a dozen articles for Self in the last few years, and all of them were about taking charge of one’s emotional life, sex life and body image. The models in Self are young, but not skinny. The how-to’s are about fitness, wellness and happiness. Okay, plug for Self over.
Whew, that’s a long blog post. I’d be happy to discuss further. Thanks again, Jenny, for giving me/my book so much love! Right back at you.
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41 Comments to 'And here’s Val Frankel . . .'
On October 8, 2008 at 4:22 pm Slave Driver said...
Thank you, Val, for a very insightful blog.
I never had weight related issues with my mother growing up because I was thin. Of course, once I crossed her idea of the “Fat Line” I became a target for her cutting remarks about weight/caloric intake/her idea of what I should look like. Luckily, we live 3 states away from each other, so the nagfest only happens once or twice a year. And it wasn’t until I hit 140lbs that I realized how biased she was against heavy people. I was old enough to not let her problems affect my self-esteem.
But I like to look at it like this: Her problem, not mine.
On October 8, 2008 at 4:57 pm Bonnie C said...
Val, thank you for sharing your wisdom. You first point about needing to reach a certain level of maturity yourself before you would even have the tools to tackle the problem really struck home for me.
I actually have something of the opposite problem with my mom: she’s been overweight my entire life while my sister and I were both very petite. She would always talk about how thin we were, almost with envy. But the result is pretty much the same. My sister and I (both of us having given birth twice and reached the front doorstep of middle age) are constantly trying to figure out how to shed those last 10-15 “baby/life” pounds becuase we have it in our heads that we are supposed to be the same weight we were as teenagers.
Ah well. We all have to just get comfortable in our own skin.
On October 8, 2008 at 7:23 pm Jackie said...
As I said, my mom never and still doesn’t comment on her daughter’s weight. My father did, about my mother and my oldest sister who was usually rounder and sometimes obese as a child. My mom did constantly diet and struggle with what we now know as chronic depression. She was always hard on herself about her weight and admiring of our thinness (we were skinny other than oldest sis). I have seen the unhappiness that beating yourself up about body image can do. Diets don’t work, but healthy habits and a positive attitude can make for a much better life.
My son is and always has been thin. He is small boned should be slender. His father is constantly giving him “you’re skinny like me – not like your fat mother” messages. My son will not wear shorts because his dad tells him his legs are too skinny. I spent a lot of time telling him the truth – he is beautiful, handsome, girls find him cute and he is the way he is supposed to be. But he continues to be very self-concsious. He is 18 now so I guess it’s up to him now to find peace with who he is physically and personally.
On October 8, 2008 at 8:47 pm talpianna said...
Thanks for sharing your wisdom, Val. I wish you’d say more about what it does to you when it’s your father obsessing about your weight.
On October 8, 2008 at 10:06 pm robena grant said...
It’s hard work trying to change the negative messages we’ve carried around for years. I worked with a man who wore an elastic band on his wrist and every time he had a negative thought he snapped it (kind of like a mini electric shock). Then he’d replace the negative thought with a positive affirmation. Not sure if it worked long term as we drifted apart years ago. Your idea of the clicker is a good one though.
The thing I’ve learned to accept is that my physical form is just a vehicle to get me around, it’s basis is pure ego. My spiritual health is far more important than my physical form, although I do work hard to keep my body strong and healthy. I’ve become much better at deflecting the barbs of others and work hard at being non-judgmental. I know that negativity or putting another person down comes from ego. It’s base is insecurity or fear, even if outwardly it shows as superiority.
On October 9, 2008 at 4:27 am Jenyfer Matthews said...
I was heavy as a child, up til about the age of 10. My parents never said anything overt, but my older sister did. I finally got sick of it and made up my mind not to eat when I wasn’t hungry and the extra pounds melted off (as they do when you’re 10!) Point #7 above really resonates with me because though I’m not heavy now, I am my own worst critic – inside my own head anyway. Gotta get one of those clickers…
My pet name for my 8 year old daughter is “Lovely”. She’s 4′5″, 65lbs (give or take) and she’s very athletic – she’s got a beautifully solid, muscular physique. I have never never never given her any reason to think that she’s anything less than perfect as she is and STILL she tells me she’s fat! I think it comes from comparing herself to her friends, many of whom are long twiggy little creatures – I did the same thing when I was her age. I point out to her that having muscles in her legs is what allows her to play soccer and tennis so well and I can only hope that in time my message will override any other she’s getting.
PS – “Self” is about the only magazine I can stand to read
On October 9, 2008 at 7:07 am AgTigress said...
Okay, I am going to stop pussyfooting around, and tell you all what I really think.
All of us accept that adults should take responsibility for their own conduct and health, and much attention has already been paid to the importance of withstanding undue outside influence, whether it is from parents or other authority figures or news and fashion media. But I am not happy about the influential power-bases that get away scot free here, namely, the food and advertising industries.
I expect most Americans are aware that the standard portions of food served in US eateries are almost invariably a good deal larger than European standard portions. It is a very noticeable fact to a European visitor. Provided we like the food, most of us are inclined to eat what is placed before us, and our idea of what is a ‘normal-sized’ meal adapts accordingly.
Modern life-styles and modern appliances make it irresistably tempting to use ready-prepared convenience foods, and we do not know, and cannot control, exactly what they contain. Sugar, and extra, unnecessary milk protein are regularly added to such food, to our detriment. As a simple example, if one makes an apple pie oneself, there will be apples and a little sugar, and the pastry will contain flour, water and fat (shortening). A bought apple pie will contain apples, lots and lots of sugar, various stabilisers, anti-oxidents and preservatives, and the pastry will contain flour, water, fat, sugar and added milk protein.
We do not actually need ANY added sugar, only the natural sugars present in fresh fruit and vegetables, but many people become addicted to sugar from childhood onwards. I don’t think that it does us much good to demonise fats in our diets while ingesting great quantities of sugar as a matter of course.
During the Second World War, the British government adopted a policy of very strict food rationing, because they wanted to avoid the situation in the 1914-18 Great War, towards the end of which some sections of the community actually suffered malnutrition. There was no malnutrition in 1939-54 (some food rationing remained for nearly a decade after the end of the war in 1945), and though the diet was very limited and austere, it was basically healthy. People were encouraged to keep poultry and grow vegetables if they could, and many did. Very few people had refrigerators, let alone freezers, so food simply could not be stockpiled for long, even if home-produced, so one ate fresh or not at all. Many died here in the bombing raids, but nobody died from being unable to buy more than one fresh egg or 2 ozs of cheese per adult per week. In fact, amongst poorer urban populations, health is said to have improved, because the ration promoted a more balanced diet than they had formerly been able to afford.
What I am coming to is this – and I know this will sound ‘political’ to some readers. Modern Western countries are all suffering from rising levels of obesity. The USA is in the lead, but the UK is not much better, and there are sinister signs even in other European countries. The fault lies every bit as much, if not more, with manufacturers and advertisers as with individual consumers. Consumers have been encouraged, almost forced, into eating too much of everything, too much sugar, too many hidden ingredients and preservatives, pushed into appallingly wasteful habits (the huge once-a-week supermarket shopping trip is a major factor – as, indeed, is the very concept of the supermarket), and into believing the hype of advertisers. More government control of truthfulness in advertising and honesty in manufacturing could make an enormous difference. The health of the citizenry is important, and at the moment, it is being systematically undermined, NOT chiefly by inappropriate propaganda about physical appearance, but by the cynical money-driven strategies of huge international companies. Some governmental brakes applied to the runaway vehicle of big business would be truly valuable. I am not suggesting that microwave ovens, freezers, ready-meals and supermarkets should be abolished: they all have benefits as well as dangers, and we cannot go backwards. But there should be greater controls. Perhaps the recession will do it, and people may start to shop and cook more carefully for financial reasons.
Yes, we are ultimately responsible for our own diets, but we are being consistently undermined by the commercial elements of our culture, and I think that fact ought to be recognised and corrected It is right to take the blame for our own shortcomings, but why on earth should we take the blame for the shortcomings of others?
On October 9, 2008 at 8:09 am Quinn said...
Oh my god. I could have written several of your paragraphs myself–particularly the ones about your mother and about the number on the scale. I have that same body type with the big bones and the absurdly high number, and I still freeze up when I eat around my mother because she watches every bite. I’m currently at the point where I’m trying to unlock the memories and purge them. Thank you so much for writing this.
On October 9, 2008 at 8:29 am AgTigress said...
As usual, sorry for typos.
On October 9, 2008 at 9:06 am Mary Stella said...
weight is a convenient distraction from life’s real problems. This revelation was a real eye-opener for me. To the woman who said her life was stable, but she still obsessed about weight, you might not be using weight as a distraction from problems. But, as another woman commented, you are thinking about weight instead of writing a novel or running a marathon, or whatever. A weight obsession, if it’s not a distraction, is a way to fill a void. I’d say, fill it with something else, something positive. “Your life’s work” was the wonderful phrase someone used. I totally agree.
OMG — Epiphany moment. Thank you, Val.
I felt sick this morning for Cheryl Burke from Dancing with the Stars. She has a beautiful, toned, curvy, wonderful body and because she gained a few pounds in between seasons, the tabloids and blogs are attacking her as fat and wondering if she’s pregnant.
The woman absolutely kicks ass on the dance floor and looks fabulous in wonderful costumes that often reveal a lot of skin. How dare people not appreciate her talent and beauty.
On October 9, 2008 at 9:18 am JanLo said...
Thank you Val and AgTigress! Many of us are children of mothers who taught, “Clean your plate, there are starving children in China.” So, finishing everything in front of us is habit, strongly ingrained from childhood. At the same time, the same mothers value petite sizes and ladylike eating – “eat like a bird, especially in front of a man.” Well, as you’ve mentioned, it’s hard to have it both ways and the mixed messages produce no end of angst. Thanks for organizing our thinking on internal messages and portion sizes put before us.
On October 9, 2008 at 10:11 am Cathy S. said...
I too am a victim of the “clean your plate” habit of eating. But at least I realized it early enough not to pass it on to my daughter! Today she is 22 and probably in the best shape of her life…in part because of the exercise she got this summer working on the grounds crew of her college.
One of her habits is that of portion control: instead of using one of the large super-sized dinner plates, she uses a salad plate. And if she is no longer hungry before finishing that portion, she doesn’t finish it. (On the other hand, if she wants seconds, she is self-assured enough to go back and help herself!)
I am trying to exercise better portion control these days by following here example.
On October 9, 2008 at 10:33 am JulieB said...
Thank you all of you for such candid remarks. I wanted to follow up on Agtigress’s remark –AT, you pussyfoot around?
After my third child and a diagnosis of hyperthyroidism, I discovered that my pregnancy weight wasn’t going away with nursing. I decided I wasn’t going to worry about it, since I was nursing and needed the extra calories, and once I’d stop and my hormones levelled off, I figured I’d be OK.
Well, that didn’t happen, and when I joined weight watchers, I discovered that I’d been consuming roughly twice the calories I needed to maintain a weight, much less shed the extra pounds from my pregnancy, every day.
I had to stop and rethink my fear of food. I didn’t think I had an issue, but I realized I’d started serving restaurant portions (and often seconds). As I went through the program, it dawned on me that my proportion size had become skewed, that I’d forgotten to make vegetables, even though everyone in my family loves them, and that I was sedentary.
When I was first married, my husband and I lived in France. Even if we wanted to take a bus somewhere, we had to walk up or down a hill to get there. I walked to that bakery every day for bread. I walked to the laundrymat. I walked around campus, and my husband and I just sometimes went for a walk to walk. If we stayed too late a a friend’s party, we had to walk home.
I’ve noticed that everytime I start walking, about two weeks to the day, I see a drop in the scale. I don’t know why it takes me two weeks to see the results, but it works. I’ve also made sure I have a salad and one vegetable with every night, or two vegetables. (Even though I love them, and can only eat so much at one sitting).
I’m not athletic, but my walks get me out in the fresh air and allow me to have a grownup conversation with my neighbor.
On October 9, 2008 at 10:59 am cindy said...
Thank you Val, and everyone. The section of the book when Val confronts her mother is so powerful. I read it feeling the emotions (dread and fear) Val had before her showdown. I admire your bravery so much Val. I have some issues with my mom that I tend to sweep under the rug. Because of your book and this discussion, I am beginning to believe they still affect me today more than I want to admit. I have always believed I would never, ever have the courage to confront my mother. Now I think finding that courage might help free me from emotional eating. Somehow I must shed the cowardly lion.
On October 9, 2008 at 1:19 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...
I went on a liquid diet (medically supervised) in 1989 and lost 40 pounds. I felt so good and my body was in better shape than when I weighed even less in college. The program had a transistion to real food and I was able to eat more than I had before but of all of the good foods.
I kept those 40 pounds off for 5 years but gradually started replacing the good foods with potato chips and other tasty treats. My alcohol consumption went from one drink a week to one a day. I joined weight watchers and put on 25 pounds after I started (menopause and death of my Mom helped). I’m overweight but fit and healthy (except for the high blood pressure due to the weight) but I long for those glorious 5 years of thinness. I want the magic solution they advertise on TV – take this pill and your extra weight will melt away.
I need to decide if I’m going to accept my weight or work to be thin for the rest of my life. That decision is one that I keep putting off until tomorrow; after all tomorrow is another day.
On October 9, 2008 at 1:37 pm McB said...
As I’ve said, I never had any issues with my mother. It was in the stores that I would feel bad about myself. I’d go into the department stores and try on clothes – even in the petite’s department – that didn’t look right on me. The fit and material were inferior and I didn’t look good in the clothes. Well, there must be something wrong with me that the clothes don’t look right. Then one day I walked into a store that specialized in petite and had an epiphany. The problem wasn’t with me after all. When I tried on clothes that were sized very specifically for petites (good quality, proper sizing, no ‘twiggy or twaddly’ assumptions) I looked good! Since then I’ve tried to stick with mainly boutique stores as opposed to the big, one-size-must-fit-all department stores. I pay a little more, and recreating my wardrobe was a slow process, but the benefit has been worth it.
I learned a lot about how the proper fit can make all the difference in appearance, and thus with our self-perception. It’s not us; it’s them.
On October 9, 2008 at 10:11 pm naked under my clothes said...
Many thanks to Jenny for providing the forum and impetus for this discussion and knowledge of Val, and to Val for chiming in.
And thanks to all these Cherries and others who are willing to share so freely, like AgTigress to name only one.
On October 10, 2008 at 12:08 am Jenny said...
It’s always fun to have a guest blogger. I feel as if I’m saying to them, “You have to meet these terrific people who comment” and to you all, “You have to meet this fabulous person who wrote this great book/ TV show/thought.” It’s like matchmaking, so much fun. Plus I don’t have to do any work. It’s like having a party without having to stock up on ice and drinks.
One of the things I’ve been thinking about lately is how the financial crash is going to affect all of this. Obviously, our country is going through a huge upheaval, cataclysmic change, and it’s going to show up in commerce and pop culture and advertising. We’ve been such super-consumers for so long (and I’m guiltier than most on that one) that I’m wondering if we won’t see a reaction to that, maybe a backlash against consumption? Maybe when times are tough, it won’t seem to attractive to be starving-thin? I know there’s going to be a huge cultural impact, I’m just not sure what it’s going to be. Ag’s post on the economy after the war played into that, too. I don’t think we’re going to be rationed to one egg a week, but the most expensive food in the store isn’t the fresh stuff, or the simple canned stuff. Maybe we’ll eat better and get fitter now that the bubble of endless prosperity has burst all over us.
That’s me, always lookin’ on the bright side.
On October 10, 2008 at 4:14 am Laura Vivanco said...
Maybe we’ll eat better and get fitter now that the bubble of endless prosperity has burst all over us
There’s already been one sign in the UK that eating habits are changing:
In Scotland they have never forgotten the earthy charms of the “neep”, adding the root vegetable into their mashed potato and serving it with a helping of haggis on Burns night. But thanks to the credit crunch and shrinking household budgets, the humble turnip is staging a comeback across the UK, with one leading supermarket reporting that sales have rocketed by 75% in 12 months. [...] Suffolk farmer Richard Parry, who supplies the big supermarkets with turnips, said: “People are turning away from prepared meals and are instead buying raw produce to save money. One root vegetable can provide quite a lot of food on a plate compared to buying a pre-prepared meal. (from the Guardian)
On October 10, 2008 at 9:25 am Jackie said...
There has been talk of this for a while now. I think I saw an article in one of the news weekly mags about the retrenching of consumerism, and whether it was as good for us as we thought it was. I see China and India following in our consumer footsteps and I think – they have a right to make their own mistakes, but I really wish they wouldn’t make THAT one. One US is enough.
On October 10, 2008 at 10:33 am Mary Stella said...
Interesting topic. All last week, I kept seeing an ad for KFC where the mother and kids go through the supermarket to see if they can get all of the ingredients needed to make a meal equivalent to the bucket of chicken and sides that cost $10 at KFC. Of course they can’t, so they scrap buying fresh food and making it at home for a trip to the fast food restaurant.
I guess there’s no extra charge for trans fats, extra sodium, and Lord knows what else. *g*
I’m dieting, yet again. Hope springs eternal that this will be the time that I’m successful. The first things that I cut out of my eating plan are fast foods and regular soda. It’s like a junkie giving up mainlining. I don’t quite get the shakes, no pun intended, but sometimes I get hit with an intense craving for the greasy-cooked foods.
On October 10, 2008 at 10:53 am McB said...
I think we’ll see people thinking twice about their food choices and striking a better balance between necessity and splurge. Which is cheaper, scratch or prepared, will likely vary by household. If you have a family of 5, from scratch might be more economical; but with smaller families, couples and singles, it might work out differently. Also, preparation time often dictates choices. But I think people are already thinking about what can be stretched and how much might be wasted. That in itself can lead to healthier eating.
On October 10, 2008 at 10:56 am Jenny said...
Some agreement here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4916300.ece
On October 10, 2008 at 2:18 pm AgTigress said...
I think there may, indeed, be a move away from vulgarly conspicuous consumption if the recession lasts for any length of time, and this can only be a good thing. One of the minor problems as far as food is concerned is that many younger people (despite being knee-deep in glossy cookery books!) tend not to have all that much experience in basic cooking using fresh, raw ingredients, especially with the cheaper cuts of meat (sales of these have gone up in the UK recently, too) and plainer veggies. But that can be remedied; it’s not that hard.
There is also another force now turning us back towards the old-fashioned, long forgotten virtue of avoiding wastefulness; namely, global warming. Certainly in the UK, the compulsory recycling of paper, plastics, metals and textiles has burgeoned over the last few years, and many of the more responsible manufacturers are cutting down systematically on unnecessary packaging, and using more recycled and recyclable materials. If it becomes unfashionable and socially unacceptable to buy more than we need, whether of food, clothing, furniture or any of the myriad objects and utensils we all regard as essential these days, it will be good for us, and good for the planet.
But don’t try to stop us buying books…
On October 10, 2008 at 3:13 pm Jackie said...
I like to hear people agreeing with the thought that we don’t need quite so much. I really don’t want any one to tell me how I should live, so I shouldn’t be telling any one the same. I like to see more of us simplifying our lives by spending less time on collecting more things. I lived in a small (by US standards) 2 bedroom coachhouse for about 5 years. I loved to go shopping and soon discovered that I would have to get rid of something in order to aquire something else. It made me a careful shopper. I am glad for the lessons that little house taught me. I spend less time cleaning, shopping and just plain looking for things. We went and fed the ducks more.
And we bought more books. They’re small.
On October 10, 2008 at 4:09 pm colognegrrl said...
Wow, I appreciate this turn of the discussion because ever since we had to clear out a couple of households after the deaths of their owners, I have a new attitude towards things. Like, they’re just things instead of something that will give me everlasting happiness. Having been a hunter-gatherer for most of my life, I’m trying to get rid of all this unnecessary clutter that I collected over the years now.
(By the way, I have this theory that couples are mostly formed by one gatherer and one discarder, my husband being the one who is great at throwing things out. If I can do it, too, is he going to change and cling to all this stuff that I want to get rid of??)
Recently, I read that in Western cultures, people own an average of 10.000 things. (And this does not count the single parts of a jigsaw puzzle.) Too bad I lost the source of this information. But I think it’s scary, because it may apply in my case, too. I can only hope that I’ll live long enough to have sorted out my stuff before my kids have to order the XL-sized dumpster after the funeral.
On October 10, 2008 at 4:33 pm Jackie said...
Cologne – It works like this –
He says – what do you need this for?
She says – it’s sacred! I need it for…..
She says – what do we need this for….
He says…
On October 10, 2008 at 4:44 pm JulieB said...
I have felt the burden of too many things. I had gotten into the habit of purchasing an impulse item, because I didn’t go out to shop frequently, so it didn’t seem like a big deal.
But when I did an assessment a few years ago, I realized I had a bunch of things I didn’t “love” and some things I did, but didn’t use for fear of breaking them, or because I had too many other things out, and the things I wanted were packed away or hard to get to.
When I started to declutter, I started asking myself at the stor “do I really want to dust this for the next 10 years.” Usually, the answer was “no.”
As I started tossing and donating my “stuff” I became very aware at how much _junk_ my kids were bringing home on a daily basis. Volumes of worksheets a week. Bags of “gifts” and candy from room parties. Lots of extra photos that didn’t make it into the school yearbook. Pencils and awards from every special event at school. (Don’t get me wrong — I’m very supportive of positive rewards in education). Plus, as the only grandchildren on both sides, there was no wanting for books or clothes.
I know I was overwhelmed by stuff when I tried to clean my room as a child. I had a _fraction_ of the stuff they had.
I think as a family we’ve been more conscious of reducing our items in general over the past few years, as have many other people I’ve known recently. And most of them agree, we’re going to be joined by a bunch more people.
On October 10, 2008 at 8:58 pm Rakisha said...
Thank you Val for more insightful words. I just picked up your memoir from the library yesterday. I wish I could get to the place where I could stop worrying so much about my weight as I do now. (Seriously, I am overweight not just in my mind.) It doesn’t seem to bother my husband or my daughters (3 years and 1 year old). I just want to be able to accept myself and be healthy without focusing so much on trying to be thinner just for the sake of my daughters. My body, through very thin and very thick, was a constant topic of discussion for my mom and my grandmother when I was kid.
When I was young and sickly and very underweight, I was forced all types of tonics and nutritional supplements to gain weight. Then, once I put on weight and started to fill out during puberty, the focus was to get me to lose weight. I still remember when I was around 16 or 17 years old, my mom told me only horses have 36″ waists. I was only 120 lbs and 5′4″ (and at the time very athletic). Nearly twenty years later that statement haunts me. I can’t shake it. I’m starting to blabber now but I just want to thank you for writing.
On October 11, 2008 at 1:27 am Karla said...
Jenny, my apologies for an off topic post. I saw this etsy listing and thought of you & Veronica
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=sr_gallery_21&listing_id=12770791
On October 11, 2008 at 10:47 am colognegrrl said...
It’s not only the question “Do I want to dust this for the next 10 years?”
I found that the thought that really puts me off buying or keeping unnecessary things is the vision of how my kids/ grandchildren/ whoever else cleans out my house is going to pick this item up and say “Holy cow, what did she want with that?”
You see, even if my statistical agy expectancy gives me another 40 years, I live according to Psalm 90: So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
On October 11, 2008 at 12:15 pm Jackie said...
Colognegrrl and Karla – I put together your 2 unrelated posts and got
If Cologne bought Karla’s pooch and her heirs found it as they cleared out her things – what would they think?
If they remember it sitting beside her bed or by her computer, would it just become a part of the to be donated pile? If it sat by her sewing machine or craft basket as she worked and talked with her freinds – would it move to another sewing room? Things only have the meaning we bring to them. And really, the meaning resides not in the thing but in us.
On October 12, 2008 at 6:02 am Jenyfer Matthews said...
I don’t quite get the shakes, no pun intended, but sometimes I get hit with an intense craving for the greasy-cooked foods.
Though I don’t indulge often, my weakness is KFC. What do they put in that stuff anyway??
On October 12, 2008 at 10:59 am colognegrrl said...
As a matter of fact, I do have some things which have special meaning and which relate to people or certain events in my life. I still have my children’s first baby shoes. I particularly asked for a china parrot after my grandmother died – in a shop, I would have ignored or even made fun of it, and the rest of my family thinks it’s absolutely ugly, but for me it means something, knowing how much my grandmother cherished it. So I like to think that when I’m dead and gone, one of my kids will keep this parrot and tell those who look at it with disgust that it’s a special memory item. And if they toss it into the nearest trash can, I won’t mind any more.
But not all of the 10.000 things we own have this meaning. And not all of them are necessary to keep our household up and running. And those I intend to lose a.s.a.p. Not today, though. It’s hard work to sort out stuff.
On October 12, 2008 at 12:43 pm lady T said...
Jenny, thanks for bringing in Val as a guest! And Val thanks for writing! I picked up your book a few days ago, and am loving it! Wonderful humor and startling honesty.
I was the invisible child, hidden behind siblings who got either positive or negative attention from our mom, for all issues. And as adults, 2 of us are overweight and 1 is anorexic. I never had a weight issue until adulthood, gaining ten pounds every decade, until I am now 30+ pounds overweight. I love food. I also love exercise, (luckily).
I wish I could drop the 30 pounds, but maybe I need to just love myself as I am. And separate from any parental food connection, (confront Mom? I’m not sure), focus on more exciting, important things in my life, get that clicker and work on increasing positive thoughts, and just plain old stop the obsession.
But I still want to drop the weight. Scary taking the leap into trusting that I can live without limitations; and from there even weigh less and be healthier.
On October 13, 2008 at 7:58 pm G and T said...
Everyone here has said wonderfully insightful things and this forum has been valuable to illustrate one of the most pervasive problems in our culture.
And now I am going to undermine all of that by saying this: “Shut up, you know Stacy London?!?”
I have been resisting doing that for days, but repressing stuff, I have found, is very bad for me.
On October 14, 2008 at 2:01 pm Rachel said...
“How to look good naked” is a British TV show – *very* interesting, and has nothing to do with losing 10 or 50 pounds.
And “The 100-Mile Diet” by Alisa Smith and JB McKinnon is an eminently readable look at how we do and can eat, and the impact on the world. Not dry at all, but very informative!
Thanks a million, Jenny and Val and posters for all the food for thought.
On October 14, 2008 at 11:37 pm robena grant said...
Just received a belated birthday card from the land down under and while not exactly on topic, it had a toast to ageing gracefully that I thought worth sharing.
May your bum stay firm and pert
May your boobies not head south
May your lippy never bleed
Into thin lines round your mouth.
May you eat a ton of chocolate
But never gain a pound
May you always look your best
Whenever Brad Pitt comes around.
May you never wear big pants
Or grow unwanted hair
And, birthday girl, if all else fails
May you be too sloshed to care!
So, as all the above has already happened here, I’m heading out to the liquor store. Grin.
On October 15, 2008 at 11:11 am Jackie said...
Actually, it is very ON topic… Live well, and let your body worry about itself.
On October 15, 2008 at 11:31 am Siberia said...
Wow- Great Topic!!! Great Blog!!
I too have had lifelong obsession about weight. I think I am finally getting better at the age of 30 on what it means to be “healthy” and how I want to portray body image to my son (2yrs) and my incubating offspring (due in FEb)
My son drinks water, I don’t give him froot loops, and juice is not something he likes (yea!) or that we stock in our house. My husband and I are in agreement that we want our kids to grow up differently then we did. WE grew up in the “clean your plate” atmosphere. We both feel now, that, eating a variety of healthy home cooked food, as long as you get a little of everything is a good thing and that “cleaning your plate” is not always a healthy thing. Especially when so many people do not understand what a ’serving” is. A “serving is not a plate full, it’s usually a cup. This was my break through into losing weight (healthfully) and getting in shape. My husband and I want our kids to see us working out and eating right, we take our 2 year old into the workout room in our house with us– he loves it! Now, I’m not going to expect that my kids will never have sugar, chocolate, etc. It will happen and that is okay. But I don’t think they need a happy meal every night for dinner, much less every week.
I threw out my scale and don’t pay much attention to weight other than how I feel and how my clothes fit…regardless of what the tag says ( I love Stacy L by the way!!) I have 3 different sizes in my closet right now. I agree with many of the posters on here, I think “we” as adult women need to shake off the negative body images and take control of how we project ourselves to our children and what we put in our mouths and on our plates. I want my kids to be healthy, not skinny, and to be proud of how they look and not measure themselves against mags, and be informed enough to know that pop/soda is 200 calories of crap you just don’t need to drink. Sorry for the long post- just passionate about women being healthy and happy with themselves.
On November 20, 2008 at 1:23 pm Melissa said...
I read the first blog, then Vals and was inspired by all of the comments. Ran to the bookstore to buy Vals book. Couldn’t remember her name (DOH!) so I ended up buying “Such A Pretty Fat” by Jen Lancaster. I was SO freaking inspired (she also has a semi-crazy mother who makes her diet in lieu of rent). I think y’all might like her too – she’s QUITE snarky but spot on. Thank you all again for the inspiration and comments.