Jennifer Crusie | Argh Ink | Blog

On October 1, 2008 at 4:05 pm lene said...

Dear lord, I have to get a copy of this book. Will head over to Amazon as soon as I’m done here.

I was diagnosed with diabetes about 18 months ago, and the biggest part of managing to control my damned blood sugar has been radically changing the way I eat. I have to eat quite low in carbs in order to see truly “good” numbers on the meter. As a result of this change, I now seem to be able to lose weight for the first damn time in my adult life, without feeling hungry all the time. Astonishing. I’m still fat, but I’ve lost well over 30 pounds in the 18 months I’ve been eating to control my blood glucose levels, and all those other blasted health issues the doc was bitching about have improved as well. And I continue to lose weight weekly, in small amounts.

The funny thing is, just the other day I stepped on the scale and saw that I weigh mid-180’s now, and it stopped me cold in my tracks. I know to a hell of a lot of people that would be huge as a house, but for me, to see a number not only below the 220’s, but below the 190’s is a big shock. I then went out to buy some new jeans, because my old ones are just too damn big, and for the first time in most of my adult life, I was able to shop in a “normal person” store.

To say this is a bit of a mind-fuck is an understatement. I’m happy about it, you bet. But the very fact that losing weight has made me feel the ground shift beneath my feet really disturbs me. My perception of who I am has apparently been much more predicated on my physical appearance than I ever realized, and that upsets me.

Well… no need to belabour the point, I know. But this gives you some idea of why I want to read the book, and I thank you for having mentioned it here. I may not have found out about it otherwise.

On October 1, 2008 at 6:06 pm misspiggy don'twannabe said...

My doctor gives me the yearly “you should lose weight” talk when I go in for my annual physical.
My Weight Watchers leader said “if you almost follow the program, you will almost lose weight.”
Last year my doctor said “When you lose weight, we’ll reduce your blood pressure medication.” I felt so much better, like she thought I could do it.
I haven’t lost much but I’m still hopeful. Unfortunately I am almost following the program – I drinks lots of water everyday and excercise but that’s all.

On October 1, 2008 at 7:48 pm mary said...

For me, the saddest thing was finding a picture of myself from a few years ago, and thinking, “I looked pretty then,” but I had never thought that at the time. So much of our lives is spent that way. I decided that I was going to do my very best to make peace with my body and to appreciate the wonderful things that I am capable of doing. I too wanted it more for my daughter- who is eight, than I wanted it for myself. I guess it is a combination of those wonderful Dove ads and hoping for better for her.

In our house, I am NEVER the one complaining about my weight and whether I look fat. My husband does enough of that for three women. I might do it with my girlfriends- but NOT in front of my daughter.

She loves to come to weight watcher’s meetings to clap for the folks who are doing well, and always wants me to speak up about a success or a challenge. I look at her and think, “I am going to miss you so much when you hate me.” but that is a different subject for a different day.

Here’s to making peace with ourselves, and our packaging.

On October 1, 2008 at 7:55 pm CrankyOtter said...

Thanks for the book req. I resemeble those remarks. I was just thinking how much time I wasted 40 pounds ago worried about being fat when I would love to be *only* that fat now. And I’m gaining about a pound a month even though I’m eating less. I’m not sure how that works.

But I’m trying *really* hard to take weight out of things. One thing that helps is only having clothes that fit in the closet. Then I don’t start each day berating myself for not being thin enough to even get dressed.

On October 1, 2008 at 8:17 pm Katrina said...

You know I’m in my thirties and I’m still working through it. Reading kateharding.net helps, and all the blogs that link there.

But I still wish my body would behave and respond to my good eating habits and my exercise habits. To some extent I can blame my thyroid (have you gotten that tested? You should – a TSH higher than 3 indicates hypothyroidism!), but also I have to give credit to my sturdy, sturdy genes.

On October 1, 2008 at 10:00 pm Brooke said...

Jenny wrote, “I don’t look in mirrors, my fat jeans are the only ones in my closet, and I try not to look down during baths.”

Boy, do I know about that. I spent the last year doing that. So I did this program and lost 20 pounds and now I can get through a spinning class without wanting to die.

And you know what? I still feel fat. The difference is that I don’t care. I can get through that spinning class, and my knees don’t hurt any more. Fuck being a size 8 – that belongs to a me who was obsessed with eating 1200 calories a day. I’m now a me who just wants to feel healthy in her skin.

And you know, I do. I don’t know how I gave up that dream, or how permanent that will be, because God knows the society will mess you up when it comes to weight, every time. But for now, it’s enough.

Take heart, sweetheart. You could weigh 500 pounds and still be the most charismatic gal in the room. You’re sexy just breathing. The Venus de W.’s got nothing on you.

On October 1, 2008 at 10:40 pm Thea said...

weight weight, fat fat, yada yada.

I’ve got a real problem – I need the archive, I need the “recent posts.” What’s with this “fatal error”?!?

Give me back my archive and I’ll expound and obsess with the rest of you, with the best of you. But I need that thing on beats, I want it and I want it now. Come across with the goods and I’ll tell you the story of my endocrin guy who gave me word that dieters travel across the border into Mexico to pick up the thyroid levels he’s got me on post-radiation (thyroid ablated, I’m totally cured, he assured me I’ll die of something else). I’m dropping pounds, a few, and I’m left wondering what happens next year when he lowers my dose to normal level. I’ve got kickin’ new jeans and Jazzercise is a lot more fun when you’re not flinging the extra avoirdupois.

I can handle Back to Normal if you’ll just give me the archive back!

On October 2, 2008 at 2:39 am Jenyfer Matthews said...

I have pretty much been around my ideal weight most of my life and still I obsess. Someone mentioned that the metabolism shifts every seven years – well, it’s kicking in here as I close in on forty. I’m trying hard not to worry overmuch about it, but how do you break the habits of a lifetime?

What scares me much more is that my eight year old daughter – whose body is perfect and lovely and does not harbor an ounce of excess flesh of any kind – will grab the relaxed muscle of her thigh and ask me if she looks fat. I have *never* once directed any criticism at her, nor talked about my own weight in front of her, so WHERE DOES IT COME FROM??? I’m beginning to think there is some sort of universal subliminal radio signal that only women can hear. We live in Egypt, where a more voluptuous figure is prized and admired (shopkeepers often offer me food and one once told me I was too thin and looked a bit sick) so where on earth does my 8 year old daughter get the idea that she’s fat? Or that if she were, it would be a bad thing?

I have to read this book…

On October 2, 2008 at 5:42 am Allie said...

Valerie Frankel, yay! I’ve read three of her books, and she’s definitely on the “last of the good chick lit writers” list. *goes to the library to find the book* Third in the queue, woot!

On October 2, 2008 at 8:05 am Kira said...

Then there’s my daughter. Of all her 20+ cousins, she’s the only one who inherited her grandfather’s overweight genes. She’s got a twin sister who’s a gymnast and a ballerina. So at some point, when she was about 10 yo, she did not have a positive self-image, to say the least. We sent her to a woman who does exercise therapy (that is, therapy through exercise). Within a few weeks, she would look at herself in the mirror and see a beautiful girl with a strong body. That’s step one. She’s almost 13 now, and she recently started Weight Watchers – not because she’s overweight (she’s got only a few extra pounds – they almost didn’t take her), but because she was beginning to gain weight and didn’t like feeling out of control. She’s totally into it – she follows the program 100% (because that’s the kind of person she is), has been losing a pound a week, and loves planning her meals. She also loves showing up at WW with yet another positive outcome. But then, she’s got more self-control and drive than pretty much anyone I’ve ever met.

I, meanwhile, in order to show myself that I don’t have to count my points, have started eating indiscriminately, and have gained all the weight she lost. But I’ll probably stop soon, it’s silly that I should even be thinking about weight. I’m fine, and if I’m not where I was 7 children ago, well, that’s just life.

As for you, Dear Jenny, maybe it’s worth it to lose a little weight for the sake of your knees, but other than that – everyone knows that women of a certain age who are too thin look frightening, while a bit of plumpness signals health and prosperity. And grandmotherhood. Whoever heard of a skinny grandmother. Ew.

On October 2, 2008 at 9:28 am Diane (TT) said...

OK, I was maybe not going to say anything (no, no willpower, which is why I, too could tell stories, so maybe I would have), until Susanna said “healthy lowfat meals”.

I have a related disorder – weightloss cookbook acquisition. I have just sent off to Prevention for another one. It’s about using healthy fats – that the problem for many of us may be that we’re not getting ENOUGH healthy fat. I’ll let you know whether it works as advertised.

Most of them do – for a while, then I start picking up doughnuts (not healthy fat!) in the break room, and making toffee (well, I have to, it’s xmas) or whatever delicacy I’m craving – and, when I fall off the wagon, I’m bored or too busy to go back to it or something.

I have the walking down, at the moment (I live just North and West of Cincy, Kerry! – the weather is great right now, but it’s awfully dark in the morning) – because I walk to work. 1.5 miles each way, it takes about the same amount of time as my driving commute did, West of Chicago, but I’m sure it’s better for me (at least, until I get run over by a bicycle, because I don’t hear them coming and I make a sudden move without signaling! I have to remember to walk more like I drive.).

Keeping the exercise going is part of my problem, but I love food SO much and have a tendency to eat mindlessly, too, so it’s no mystery where MY weight comes from. But the recipes in this cookbook sound great and you are REQUIRED to eat dark chocolate, so maybe I can make it for a month or so until the holidays and come out of the year with no net gain?

Part of the reason I want to try (again, of course!) is that, while I have always been a bit heavy (ranging from the “only by comparison/ in my mind” to “BMI exceeds desirable range” (sometimes by a fair amount), I didn’t used to gain wait around my abdomen much. I wasn’t a pear, but I wasn’t an apple either. Now that abdominal, visceral fat is creeping up on me, and they say that’s not good, so…

I don’t know how messed up I am, having never experienced tragedy-based weightloss, but the restless search for yet-another-solution suggests that there’s something pretty weird in my head!

Good luck with the plug-ins, Mollie and Jenny – I don’t think I did anything I’d need “Preview” for today, but it’s certainly handy!

Blessings and peace on all of you, and I hope you find your happiness!

On October 2, 2008 at 9:31 am Eva Gale said...

Well. If the America was in starvation mode we’d be goddesses. It’s just that we’re in glutton mode.

I’d feel bad about the extra weight but because my husband still thinks I’m hot. (it’s the boobs, it’s all he can see) And I’m not going to think too deeply on the idea that my husband’s perceptions of me are my plumb.

There’s this girl I know that stares at my stomach every time I see her. (I had twins, there’s a poof) She just lost 35 pounds and LOVES talking about it while she stares at my stomach. But you know what? He life otherwise is hell and this week I realized she is controlling the only thing she can.

On October 2, 2008 at 11:01 am AgTigress said...

My personal history is not very interesting: plump child, slim adolescent and adult, followed by post-menopausal weight gain, so that I am now a fattish old woman with no discernible waist. I don’t even know how much I weigh, but I should think it is a couple of stone (28 lbs) more than I should, and I’d like to lose it, but there are all these other things that distract me. I eat healthily, so I probably just need to run around a lot more, instead of taking root in front of the computer.

What I really wanted to say, to all those who worry about their size, is that the human brain edits so much stuff out that people who know you simply cease to notice, very quickly. Mothers are probably an exception, but that’s another story. When one first meets someone, one might think, ‘gosh, she is a large lady!’, but by the time one has been talking to her for a while, finding her interesting and congenial, her size – and other aspects of her physical appearance – recede in one’s mind. At least, they do in mine, even though I am a visually-oriented person. I don’t say, ‘I met this really fat woman today’. I say, ‘I met this really interesting woman today who is an expert on Renaissance furniture’ – or whatever it might be. As with book covers, the wrapping doesn’t really matter: it’s the content that counts.

I don’t know if that’s any comfort, but it is true.

On October 2, 2008 at 11:27 am Corinne said...

I need to read this book because a couple of years ago I also lost a husband as a 30-something woman, watching him die a slow, lingering and unpleasant death. Only I comfort-ate and gained about 25 pounds. And in reading the description of Val Frankel’s ordeal, where you’d think I’d have a little empathy, the first thing I thought was, “why couldn’t I have lost weight instead of gaining?”

I don’t have any insightful comments on weight and self-definition– just thanks for raising this topic.

On October 2, 2008 at 12:08 pm Pam said...

This issue and those I associate with it are a little too sensitive and buried (like a 25 year old splinter) for me to deal with here, but it is helping me tremendously to read not only Jenny’s view, but all of yours. Just knowing that I’m not alone helps more than words can say.

On October 2, 2008 at 4:01 pm robena grant said...

I wrote this morning around nine, well, noon Ohio time. My post got eaten. And I swear I didn’t even use any cuss words. Grin. My internet has a poltergeist, it’s been wreaking havoc all day.
Anyway, I won’t repeat myself, just say I’ve gained and lost the same twenty pounds every year for the past ten. And AgTigress, as a young nurse I knew a wonderful Oncologist who every year gained forty pounds in the winter, lost thirty pounds in the summer before his family vacation. We all called him the Dr who had two wardrobes. Sad to say I’ve become him.

On October 2, 2008 at 5:12 pm Jill said...

I weighed 98 when I got married 42 years ago. I weigh 150 now. Have been up to 155. My mother , who was thin, fed me milk shakes to make me put on weight. In my 30’s I told myself I put on 10 pounds per kid. But, hey, what you going to do ? In my 40s I attributed the weight quick meals keeping up with the kids. Or whatever. In my 50’s it was HRT. What’s a gal to do ? In my 60s is was illness–the breast cancer pill. Can’t quit that . And I am built like my mother–all the weight is around the hips and belly. Another excuse.
Bottom line , for me, it’s lack of will power. Do you know how many excuses there are for not going around the corner to Curves ? I know them all.
What really drives me nuts is people who say “you’re not fat. you don’t weigh that much “. I think I’m fat–therefore I am fat.
I am embarrassed to tell this. In my skinny days and too long after that I’d look at overweight people and ask myself how did they let themselves get that way. Now I know. How many calories are in crow ?

On October 2, 2008 at 7:34 pm Maya said...

I’m a long time lurker, but this post brought me out of my shell. Like expertbookworm I was a very thin kid who turned into a thin adult. I am 5’11 and 150 lbs and I go though times when I don’t like my body all that much. I feel out of sorts, like I’m to tall and gawky. My girlfriends tell me they have “fat days”, well I have “skinny days” when I think that I would be so much happier with 10 more pounds.

Being thin is a privilege, it’s like the world gives you a pass because you’re a size 6. I have had people tell me, in truly bad times of my life, that it will all be ok because at least I’m not fat. It just gives you a different kind of invisibility.

This is not to say “oh I’m so thin, poor me” but a comment on what other have been talking about “how do we let weight come to define who we are?”. How also do we let it define how we value others?

On October 2, 2008 at 9:12 pm talpianna said...

Cindy wrote: I read Valerie’s book and really loved it. One thing someone told her that she wrote about in the book keeps resonating with me, although I haven’t figured out how to make it fit with my desire to lose weight and gain health. It’s the idea that we focus on our weight issues because we don’t want to deal with other, more painful stuff in our lives. I just wondered, Val, do you believe that’s true? Because I cannot figure out what I am avoiding as I obsess about my waist measurement. And I cannot figure out how to figure it out. If that makes sense.

I think it’s a lurking fear that if we lose weight, all those people who rejected us or thought less of us because of our weight will still reject us and look down on us, but for more fundamental aspects of our personality–our character, our intelligence, our likeability.

I also think it’s interesting that size 14 is now considered “plus-size,” whereas in my youth that term was reserved for size 18 and above.

On October 3, 2008 at 6:31 am AgTigress said...

Tal said, ‘I think it’s a lurking fear that if we lose weight, all those people who rejected us or thought less of us because of our weight will still reject us and look down on us, but for more fundamental aspects of our personality–our character, our intelligence, our likeability’.

I think that might be an important subconscious element in certain cases. The concept is illustrated in a slightly different way by the young women who evidently believe that if they have unnecessary surgery to diminish their noses or enlarge their breasts or even (apparently an increasingly common mutilation) to ‘beautify’ their genitals, life will suddenly become perfect for them, and everyone will like and admire them. That is the perception of the dimmer bulbs: Tal is expressing the more perceptive fears and suspicions of the brighter ones.

The comments in this thread from women who are, or have been, unusually thin as well as those who are, or have been, unusually fat, emphasise the point that what we are really talking about goes way beyond cultural norms about female *weight and body shape*. It is about an undue emphasis on *physical appearance generally*, both the bodies that nature has issued us, and the way in which we clothe and present them to the world. As I said above, in practice, in normal, everyday life, physical appearance is no more than a first-impression effect. Its impact fades completely as soon as a personal contact and relationship is established. We probably all number amongst our friends people who made a negative first impression upon us, whose personal appearance seemed off-putting in some way, but who turned out, on closer acquaintance, to be estimable people.

We all instinctively make very rapid first-impression judgements: this is actually a necessary safety-and-security strategy. You do not wait to see if a wild-eyed man rushing towards you brandishing a sword is an actor filming an advert rather than a homicidal maniac. You get out of the way, fast. In urban settings, especially, it pays to expect the worst.

I wonder whether anxiety about first-impression effect is simply much more common in our over-populated, highly urbanised societies, in which we see, fleetingly, so many people whom we don’t know, and never will know? People living with physical disabilities obsess about the way in which they are perceived by the world – the false assumptions and judgements that are made about what they can or cannot do. None of these things applies within a small community, where people know everybody else, and therefore see ‘through’ their outward appearance as a matter of course. But by the same token, those who have always lived in small communities can be excessively and falsely judgemental about any outsiders they encounter, who will be different, and unknown.

We will never do away with instinctive first-impression classification based on outward appearance, because it is hard-wired. But we can, quite consciously, train ourselves to question those instant judgements almost as soon as they are made. And we are NOT speaking only of weight and shape. We are speaking, too, of perceived age, of class- and nationality-signifiers, of clothing and personal oranment choices, of body-language, of all the myriad visual clues that we use to classify those who pass, fleetingly, before our eyes.

On October 3, 2008 at 7:26 am colognegrrl said...

I think we need to differentiate here. Weight is also about control, and I think not in a bad sense. While I do not expect everybody to look like a model, I would prefer to see people whose appearance conveys the picture that they do care about themselves. Even if they need to buy larger-sized clothes.

Now I cannot change the fact that, after giving birth to three children, my hips got wider and that sometimes when I’m in the coordinates section of a store, I need my pants two sizes larger than the matching jacket. But what I can influence is the fact that I can still wear this suit in the next season. I just had to accept the fact that metabolism slows down with age which means the older you get, the less food you need. Too bad my body doesn’t know it so my mind must tell him “it’s not the quantity but the quality that counts”.

So I need to control my eating, tough luck. But I consider it similar to the fact that I’ve got to force myself to keep my house clean (I hate cleaning, but at the moment I can’t afford a hired help). Nobody is going to say “she’s got a pretty house, but a sad fate made so much dust collect all over”. They will expect me to take care of it. So I think in a certain way, we also need to take care of our bodies (which does NOT mean that we all need to be a size 8 or lower!!!).

When I go to those typical European cafés, I’ll have some apple pie. But almost always, there’ll be some overweight people digging into various pieces of heavy-duty cream cakes. I try not to judge, just to observe. But…

Now go ahead, beat me up. But that’s my two calories’ worth.

On October 3, 2008 at 11:00 am Jackie said...

Americans have created for ourselves a very ugly catch 22. We admire thin, muscular, physically perfect people and want to be them. Then we have created a very sedantary lifestyle for most of us. We drive everywhere; take the elevator or escalator instead of stairs. I lived for several years in places where there wasn’t any neighborhood stores to walk to (less than 2 miles each way) And this was in a suburban area, not rural. And then we are so busy we need to eat out often, where portion control and quality are not to our advantage, healthwise. We are surrounded by food tempation and the need to hurry with our modern conveniences. We keep telling ourselves we just need will power, but our lives make it almost impossible. We are caught – even by ourselves – in this nasty tangle of obligation, expectation and temptation.

I recently saw an article about some studies by the government about osbesity and social patterns. At first I was highly offended by the fact we were paying to study this. But then the researchers said that they were studying the hypothises that will power alone wasn’t the answer to obesity, but rather how community and family and friends could support the changes needed for healthy, sustained weight loss. I hope to see more work in this area because I have seen too many people – including myself – deriding themselves for losing an almost impossible battle.

On October 3, 2008 at 5:54 pm talpianna said...

Jenny wrote: It’s as if the world–the social Western world anyway–has said, “Here’s a narrow paramenter and all women must fit within it or we’ll savage you. You have to be thin but you have to have large breasts and a round bottom and you must not change as you grow older or have children.” It’s impossible. And really annoying.

In THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS, C.S. Lewis attributed it to diabolical influence–the good work of the Lowerarchy.

Am I the only person who thinks that every time I see her, Sarah Palin looks more like a cartoon character?

THIS one in particular:

http://gamesnet.vo.llnwd.net/o1/gamestar/objects/111384_main.jpg

PG wrote: Maybe especially for those of us who live a lot in our heads, looking down at ourselves frequently seems weird and surprising. That’s my body?

I’m afraid I’m with Garfield: “I have feet?”

AgTigress, a major component of weight gain is the “set point,” which is largely determined genetically. I was on the Hilton Head set-point diet for quite a while, and it worked–until my knee made exercise impossible. I used to ride a stationary bicyle about 15 miles a day.

http://www.amazon.com/Hilton-Head-Over-35-Diet/dp/0446358614

http://www.amazon.com/New-Hilton-Head-Metabolism-Diet/dp/0446603252

On October 3, 2008 at 6:42 pm lelias said...

I was 11 when it happened to me.I stepped on a scale at my grandmother’s house and broke down and cried when it read 105 pounds.I was 5′6″ and skeletal, not because I was anorexic, but because there was never really enough food to eat. And by gaining weight, I was obviously eatting more than my share. I was devastated.
And as I got older and out on my own survival was my only need. It wasnt until I had my son ( I was 7 months pregnant and wore regular- not maternity- size 5 jeans)that I realized I could eat any thing I wanted.. that food didnt have to be rationed.
And lord it didnt take long to hit a size 14 with my daughter 3 years later.. and then as I had to run less to keep up with the kids, I ballooned to a size 22. Im now an 18 and going to the gym every day. Working out. Trying to eat healthy ( but really if god wanted us to eat nothing but healthy food there wouldnt be chinese food places open until 2 am)and passing along the message to my belly dancing students that size two is an option..but not the only one.

On October 3, 2008 at 7:40 pm Katy Cooper said...

When it comes to controlling one’s own destiny, or failing to do so, the factors are so very numerous and complex that we judge others at our peril.

This is true in so many areas…

I’m really trying to focus on being healthy.

On October 3, 2008 at 9:18 pm Melissa Blue said...

But how do you get rid of those messages?

Like any other addict. One day at a time. It’s kind of like the “great writer” mantra. You have to remind yourself that you are beautiful and deserving. I have this taped up on my wall:

“I’m worthy simply because I am”

Thanks for reminding me I haven’t said this in a while. I’d almost forgot my worth.

On October 3, 2008 at 10:44 pm JLO said...

I know this was meant to be an anthropolgic discussion, but I’m having this overwhelming urge to raise my hand and offer some resources to anyone who is frustrated enough to contemplate a lifestyle change. Jenny, with your permission I will post a few links.

On October 3, 2008 at 11:47 pm micki said...

And, now I’ve read everything. I’ve got a couple of comments:

(-: Jackie, your comment made me giggle. I assume you are talking about Hollywood; can you show me some actresses in your country’s entertainment business who are overweight and popular and empowering women? I don’t think you can blame the Americans — if Hollywood is brainwashing the people in your country, it’s probably because the people in your country allow themselves to be brainwashed (just like us poor hapless Americans!)

Re: adolescents and weight. Give her access to books, research websites with her, support her if she wants to make sane diet changes. But also tell her she is fine the way she is, and encourage her in other activities (band, choir, gymnastics, volleyball — whatever she likes). My daughter is 12, and I really wish I knew of a simple nutrition book aimed at tweens and teenagers — something we could read together.

Re: high-protein. No one mentioned this. Maybe the fad is over? But I recently read about it in my last issue of Mother Earth News, and I have to say, the low-carb diet is the ONLY one that has ever worked for me, even temporarily.

(-: I am being defensive, aren’t I? Talking about weight and weight-loss just makes me crazy . . . .

On October 4, 2008 at 1:21 am RfP said...

I have no problem with the government studying obesity. A number of countries are getting fatter, ironically in the same period that many people are trying to reduce consumption in other ways. It behooves us to figure it out. We all know weight is about calories in versus calories expended, but that knowledge clearly isn’t enough. California is looking at early lifestyle factors such as schools children can’t walk to, sports being squeezed out of the schedule, and traffic laws prohibiting bicycling on sidewalks–those *are* government issues.

AgTigress, I agree that we could all stand to be less judgmental, in part for our own sakes. Isn’t judging others’ appearance a reflection of our attitudes toward our own appearance?

I hadn’t thought much about this until the last time I was on the job market. When I read up on interviewing, a number of sources said that unattractive or overweight job applicants often aren’t hired, which I find bizarre and inappropriate. A job applicant might have a disgustingly dirty house, yellow teeth, or out-of-control eating habits, but none of that means she’s less than stellar on the job. Perhaps she’s a dedicated workaholic who’s too exhausted to bother cleaning at home! Regardless, it’s very sad if any of that factors in to the hiring decision.

On October 4, 2008 at 7:03 am naked under my clothes said...

I had a fabulous comment eaten earlier this week but it was a longer version of “yeah, I hear you.” So here goes again.

Anne Lamott, I believe it was, said it best for me ten years ago, though this is a very loose quote. “Do not obsess about the size of your thighs. Obsess about getting your writing done.”

For “writing,” substitute “whatever you are meant to do.” Because that’s what food, weight, exercise, size, etc. has been for me–a way to keep from taking risks in my emotional life, in my so-called professional life, and even my spiritual life. It kept me from even trying to write fiction. For example.

Now I’m writing and submitting. I now fit into my life more than I have during any of my previous decades. Nearly a year ago, I decided it was time to either try to do something about my size or finally accept it. I figured I had tried everything, but my nephew had recent success with Weight Watchers online. I hadn’t tried that. So I did. Because I knew it would. NOT. work.

And damn if I haven’t dropped 35 pounds in the past year. And yes, I can eat like this forever. And yes, the height-weight charts say I could lose another 7 pounds. To which I say, “Maybe not me.”

I don’t have answers: I don’t know how we let weight define us. I don’t know how we not–except to turn our focus to our life’s work. And love vegetables.

On October 4, 2008 at 9:58 am WapakGram said...

This discussion is so timely. I had to make a choice between dealing with depression and weight gain. I took the medication for depression. Now, I have to change medicines to address my weight. Which messes with the depression journey. My yearly Physical shows no medical problems, just need to prevent things in the future says dear doctor. And keeping up with Grandchildren.

Depression makes it very difficult to get yourself out of your house and into a gym or whatever, AND have a weight problem. Hell, it’s difficult to get out of bed. But, if I can put one foot forward and keep moving most days, I feel like a success.

I woke up one day and realized how heavy I was. I was so busy “doing” my life that I never saw myself. Really. If you don’t look, you don’t see.

And Cologne girl, I’m sorry, but if you had your mother and your closest aunt die within 2 weeks of each other, maybe you would want a piece of cake, too. It may have been the only thing keeping her sane that day.

On October 4, 2008 at 2:30 pm Deb said...

Hi, I’m Deb. A 54yr, mildly obese woman (as informed by my MD). I’ve got about 20lbs of extra baggage I carry. I color my gray hair, have a full set of American Tourister under my eyes.

About 10yrs ago I worked for a software developer. One of their big projects had been outsourced as the company didn’t have the talent in-house. They turned to a company in India for development. They ran into difficulties, as the base product had been sold with customization for several manufacturers within the same industry. When you customize one thing for one contract, you pretty much are guaranteed to break something in another. Because of the time difference and the need for communication and easy access to the developers, the East Indian company sent 2 of their best to stay in our country to correct the problems and get the job done. It wasn’t going any better, and one fine am, one of the project managers stormed our work area, standing within 2 feet of these guys, shouting “We should bomb India, we should just wipe India off the face of the planet.” I promptly stood up and told her to stop. I indicated no-one should have to work in an environment with the vile hate of her attitude. NO ONE else said anything, just me, Fat Girl. The following am, I ran into one of the guys and said good morning, as I had always done since their arrival. As the custom is different for this guy, he usually just nodded, without looking at me. This particular am, he looked me right in the eye, smiled and said good morning. To me, Fat Girl.

Last Wednesday, I turned 54. My Mom put together the usual birthday dinner. My beautiful 26 yr old nephew called at 5:00, indicating he was still at work, would be late and asked if he could still come and eat the leftovers. He probably would have rather gone home as he had been at work since 6:30 am. He arrived at 7:00. He hugged me and said Happy Birthday, and how glad he was he hadn’t missed the party. He told this to me, his Old, Fat Aunt. This bright, beautiful, exhausted young man, was glad to see me.

Yesterday I had the responsibility to be A/V geek girl for a conference held for CME credit of Ophthalmologists & Basic Science Researchers in Ophthalmic research. About 75 in all. The am sessions went smoothly. During lunch, one of my bosses, a leading corneal surgeon who graduated Phi Beta Kappa as an undergrad, asked that I stay in the room during his talk. He asked this within a group of his peers. He indicated he would feel more confident to have me there. Me, Fat Girl.

If I keel over later from a heart attack due to obesity, I can die proudly. I have the love of my family, I’ve earned respect from a man of a culture very different to mine. I’ve actually inspired confidence with a highly respected corneal surgeon. Could someone please explain what being fat has to do with the person I am?

Jenny, I love your books, I highly respect your bright, talented, beautiful, creative mind. You inspire me, and I am certainly not alone. You raised another bright beautiful, talented woman all on your own(even if she wasn’t all that impressed with Maui). I think that beats being fat all over the place. You taught kids, some of whom, had parents who had probably made life pretty damn tough for those kids. That had to be pretty rough at times. Teaching is one of the most important jobs in our society and one of the least respected. Because of your talent as a writer, you were asked to join in partnership with another intelligent, talented, respected, honorable writer. A pretty hot guy to boot. You’ve also been asked to partner with other talented writers. You, who all you seem to see, is a fat woman. You gotta see yourself through my eyes.

It really tore my heart to hear that some of you had parents who disrespected you, abused you when all they saw was a fat child. I was a damn lucky kid to have my parents. I would share them with you. They are pretty damn great.

Celebrate who you really are. The outside changes over age, the inside, with care, remains the same. Wow Us!!

On October 4, 2008 at 5:21 pm Becky said...

“We would be saints if we weren’t judgmental in some respect. We need our values to exist. Where do we draw the line? Do we need to respect these Nazi types who beat up dark-skinned foreigners? – of course they had a bad childhood. (I’d say the answer is no.) And doesn’t the workaholic who is too exhausted to clean at home have a serious problem? Shouldn’t it rather be taken care of than just accepted because we, in all our political correctness, try not to be judgmental? ”

There is a huge difference between not telling a random fat person to back away from the Krispy Kremes and standing by while someone gets beat up. Stopping a riot is clearly helpful. Telling that fat person that you find their behavior self-indulgent is not. Weight is often an emotional as well as physical problem. Shame only complicates the situation, it doesn’t fix it.

On October 4, 2008 at 5:51 pm colognegrrl said...

So I took so much time writing my comment that I am not right after Carol’s now. But I take the chance to add an answer to Becky: I was writing about AgTigress’ statement concerning being judgmental. Which is something that happens in your head. I did not talk about the actions resulting from it. And I would never compare berating a fat person to stopping an assault.

In our society, sometimes tolerance is mixed up with giving up every kind of value. Maybe it’s extremely so in Germany because of our history. But I think you need values, and showing respect towards your own personality – body and mind – should be one of them. And even if I repeat myself, I believe that working at your physical, emotional and all other kinds of problems goes along with that.

On October 4, 2008 at 9:48 pm Tine said...

After all the negative mother-daughter stories I wanted to add my own, saying that there are parents who inspire their children to a positive selfimage
During my whole childhood my mom was eating five full meals a day and still being underweight. She got lots of comments along the line of ‘thats so amanzing, you are so lucky…’. Well, the reason she was not gaining weight was that she was extremly unhappy and her body needed the extra nourishment to just get through the day. When I was in my teens, she changed a lot in her life and as a result is way happier today. But of course, with the lifestyle change also came the weight because her eating habits didn’t change that fast. So what I`m trying to say is that as a teenager I could see my mom gaing weight every year and becoming happier with her life. It doesn’t mean that today she doesn’t sometime say she wants to lose those extra 20lbs but for all of us the size she is now is a sight that the rest of her life is fine. Plus, when I look at pictures of her from those early years it’s hard to understand how people could have complimented her so much on the weight while missing how pale she was. I honestly think that she is more attractive with 40lbs and 20 years more.
Wheneverr I start obsessing about my weight, I think of my mom and tell my self ‘thin is not happy’, living a life that makes you happy ist more important than keeping your ideal weight.

On October 5, 2008 at 4:32 am Laura Vivanco said...

“If fat makes estrogen and estrogen feeds the cancer (Mothers Don’t let Your Daughters use HRT). I am doubly shot to hell.”

According to Cancer Research UK, fat may be protective for pre-menopausal women, but may have the opposite effect after the menopause:

“Weight is a bit confusing. If you are overweight before you’ve had your menopause, your risk of breast cancer is lower than average. But if you are overweight after menopause, your risk of breast cancer is higher than average. This is because women who are overweight ovulate less than average. So their breast cells may be exposed to lower levels of oestrogen. But once you are post menopausal, your oestrogen levels are linked to the amount of body fat you have. The more fat, the higher your oestrogen levels are likely to be.”

Jill, your doctors have probably thought about this already. Apparently

“About one to two-thirds of all breast tumors have estrogen receptors and depend on estrogen for growth. That is why doctors often prescribe the anti-estrogen Tamoxifen for women who have estrogen-receptor positive breast tumors.” (from the website of the Sprecher Institute for Comparative Cancer Research)

On October 5, 2008 at 4:32 pm lee said...

My history doesn’t bear repeating, it looks familiar and many have said it better.

I can speak to the people who ask how to change an industry – whether Hollywood, fashion or women’s magazines. Let’s focus on magazines. The simplest thing is to remove them from your life.

Contemplate for a moment the revenue model for magazines; they have to publish a new issue every month or so, supported by advertising. The worst offenders are the ones where the advertising drives content within the magazine. This means that the whole magazine exists to sell me things from the advertisers. The sorry fact is that when I am happy I don’t buy stuff (not random advertised stuff – mostly I do grocery shopping when life is good) I do things that make me happy again. When I am worried, I buy stuff to make myself less worried and happier. The only way the advertisers win is to make me, the reader, unhappier and more worried and more in doubt about myself, and then sell me a solution.

So I stopped reading all the magazines that didn’t tell me how to make things. Anything that offered a quick fix for my hair or my food or my relationship with my kids or my husband – GONE. And I got happier. And I stopped feeling slightly inadequate about everything. (yes, EVERYTHING, even stuff that wasn’t under discussion in the magazine.)(Does that say something about how brainwashed I was? yes.)

Taking a two year break from all magazines has made me a much more critical reader. My dearest and smartest friend pointed out that all the magazines at the checkout stand had completely contradictory things on the cover. Lose 10 lbs in a Week/Make this SuperFudge Cake Tonight. Declutter your Kitchen/Flea Market Finds.

How can we change this? Don’t buy them. Don’t buy into the issue they propose you be concerned with. Band together with your friends and allies, and be concerned about stuff that really matters to you. Then work to fix it. It doesn’t change an industry, except when enough people do it. But it can certainly make a huge difference in your own life. And since that is what you are living, where better to make a difference?

sorry for the rant, and it is only tangentially apropos, but the question was raised repeatedly how we can change the message we are getting, and really, I think we can’t, we just change the message we accept.

On October 5, 2008 at 9:05 pm Jill said...

“But once you are post menopausal, your oestrogen levels are linked to the amount of body fat you have. The more fat, the higher your oestrogen levels are likely to be.”

Yup, that’s me.

““About one to two-thirds of all breast tumors have estrogen receptors and depend on estrogen for growth. That is why doctors often prescribe the anti-estrogen Tamoxifen for women who have estrogen-receptor positive breast tumors.”

Again , that’s me. Except that I am on Femara, which does the same thing. If it is found that the Femara does not work (and all indications are that it is) I have already been tested and Tamoxifen will work for me.

I should be celebrating that the cancer is being wiped out by one little pill . But, oh no, I am bitchin’ about the weight gain and hot flashes–I mean power surges.

On October 6, 2008 at 9:13 am McB said...

I have a big problem with books and magazines touting some sure-fire, easy, drop 20 pounds in 7 days method of weight loss. It’s always some program you can’t actually live on/with so it sets people up to fail. But instead of recognizing that the article or book was flawed, people think it must be them, that they failed. Grrr. Weight loss is not easy. It requires a life style change. It requires changing your attitude, making different choices, and sticking with all of that even when life has gone south in six different ways. It’s HARD. And I speak as someone who has been there and done that. Ultimately I went with Weight Watchers as being the most sensible. They impressed me because they don’t tout easy answers and fast results. Even then I ‘fell off the wagon’ a few times over the years. I’m at a good place now. I’ll never be skinny but I like my body. Different things work for different people, but my main point is that there is no quick fix and it’s not just a question of will power.

On October 6, 2008 at 12:11 pm JanLo said...

I can commiserate with all of the posters so far. I’ve lost and found the same 50 to 80 pounds at least six times in my 60 odd years and kept it off for up to two years at a time. Then I’d get tired of concentrating so hard on counting calories, weighing food, and reading every label, and get angry that I couldn’t eat like other “normal” people, say to hell with it and the weight would creep back on.
Yes, it would be easier on my knees, hips, and back to weigh less. Yes, I could trim down the 5-6 different sizes in my closet, and yes, I would look better. But, I’m tired of fighting it day after day. I went to Curves 3 times a week for a year without missing once. Lost 0 pounds but gained 0 pounds.
I’ve decided to accept who and what I am. If I lose weight eating a healthy, low-fat, low-carb diet, so be it. Frankly, I have too many other things to do than agonize over my bodyfat index. But deep down does it form part of my self image? Yes, of course. Did I have one of those mothers who commented on every pound? Yes, I did. Will I read the book you recommended? Maybe, if I can get it together for one more effort.

On October 6, 2008 at 3:08 pm McB said...

No parental issues here. My parents wanted us to be healthy and happy and capable of supporting ourselves. Full stop. Yes, I do know how blessed I am. My weight issues stem from a love of food battling a low metabolism. Also, I’d rather have a root canal than go jogging. When my weight goes up, it’s my own doing.

Sorry to break with the general tone. Being too short for my weight is about as close as I can come to blaming my parents.

On October 6, 2008 at 6:46 pm talpianna said...

When I was a freshman in college, my P.E. teacher once called me into her office and told me that I was the most unattractive girl on campus. She wanted to put me on some sort of weight-loss program, but this did not exactly inspire me to have confidence in her as a mentor.

On October 7, 2008 at 3:50 am Kira said...

I was thinking about writing about how strengthening stomach muscles can make a big difference to appearance and overall health, and then I realized – in previous generations, people were unattractive and that was it, while our generation believes that everyone can better themselves with effort. That’s a wonderful thing, that we believe that everyone has it in them to look attractive, with the right exercise, diet, hair, makeup, clothing and bearing. But it also has a dark side – if you don’t make the effort …

On October 7, 2008 at 6:58 am AgTigress said...

Sigh. Words DISAPPEAR from other parts of a sentence when one edits something completely different.

Correct this sentence thus:
“…the dangers of anorexia and other eating disorders in one BREATH AND THE DANGERS OF untrammelled obesity in the next, no wonder people get panicky and, above all, confused.”

When can we have the preview function back?

On October 7, 2008 at 7:16 pm talpianna said...

There are actually websites out there that “support” anorexics and bulemics by encouraging their behavior and giving them techniques for concealing it from parents, doctors, etc.

On October 8, 2008 at 2:13 pm Jackie said...

Dear naked Great plan! Life is still interesting isn’t? I remember one family gathering where I was constantly worried my 10 year old ADHD son was going to misbehave, be hurt by some unthinking remarks about his nonstandard behavior, etc. A woman who introduced herself as a retired school teacher said “Just relax – you can’t do anything anyway and you’re making it harder on him and you both.” After much private talking to myself I managed to let him out of my sight. He and 2 other boys showed up an hour later, arms around each other’s necks, grins on their faces, cars in their hands and dirt from head to foot. That wise woman was right. All I needed to do was relax.